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Retrobyter -> RE: 1,000 year reign (7/10/2008 1:34:42 AM)
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Shalom, tony.nz!
You said,
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ORIGINAL: tony.nz
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quote:
You said,
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Therefore, Yeshua` is using these parables to tell us more information about the 1000-year period to come! The Kingdom will start out small but will grow as Yeshua` LITERALLY becomes the King of kings, a title by the way that was also given to Nebuchadnezzar to mean "world emperor," and the Kingdom grows until it fills the earth! Furthermore, its influence will start out rather small by comparison. It will NOT automatically be a place to which the Gentiles will seek.
BUT, as the Kingdom grows and reports about the Kingdom and its wise King become more widely known, THEN the Gentiles will flock to the Kingdom of Isra'el! Then, the prophecy that says,...
Personally, I believe that when Christ returns, the world will be in no doubt that He is King of Kings, it will be world news that makes all that is known of history pale in comparison! He will set up His kingdom, in Jerusalem, to rule over all the world! The parable you speak of relates to the church, which was planted as a small seed, and is now growing, and is preparing to fill the world on His return!
No, that is a common misconception based on the Replacement Theology point of view, namely that the "Church" has somehow taken the place of "Isra'el" in prophecy. Where was this "Church" when Yeshua` spoke these parables? But that's NOT what Yeshua` said about this parable! He said the KINGDOM FROM THE SKY (OF HEAVEN) was like the mustard seed!
When Yeshua` returns, you're right, there'll be no doubt that He is a special Ruler! HaMelek Yisra'el (The King of Isra'el) will be revered and feared by the world ... eventually; HOWEVER, who will be ready to ACCEPT Him as THEIR "King of kings?" as THEIR Emperor? Do you think the Scriptures vainly say in Psalm 2 that the kings of the earth will assemble AGAINST the LORD's Anointed?
Shalom Retrobyter,
Firstly, you need to know that I was not advocating replacement theology, which I believe is a load of crock. Israel is Israel, and the Church is the Church. In this case, I was thinking of the church as the universal body of believers in Yeshua, incorporating both Jews and Gentiles. It is the church which currently partakes of "the Kingdom of Heaven", on earth. Yeshua planted the seed, and as He promised, the word has spread all around the world, so that believers are now found in all nations. So, I was thinking of the terms as being synonomous, when perhaps they are not quite so, and technically, you are therfore correct.
Rather than this, which is more an issue of semantics, I would like to explore your advocacy of the idea that the Messiah will return, and gain recognition by a gradual process. And that some will recognise Him immediately, and some would not. Now, I have had it in my head, that His return would be sudden, dramatic, inexplicable and terrifying to the world, and immediately recognisable by all His true followers.
You seem to place your view on your interpretation of the parable of the mustard seed. I can assure you however, that my alternative interpretation is not based on mistakenly associating Israel with the Church, as in replacement theology. Rather, as has been explained, it is through the growth of the church that the Holy Spirit has made the Kingdom of Heaven known, and it is indeed now a great tree that "fills the whole earth", or perhaps almost meets that description at the present time.
So, in summary, I think the difference is that you see the fulfillment of the growth of this tree as being consumated during the millenial reign, I see it as being consumated during the church age.
Now, in Matthew 24:23 to 26, Yeshua tells us not to be decieved by people who tell us that He has returned, or that He is in a particular place, or who say "here He is". Then, in vs 27, He makes the dramatic counterpoint. His return will be as lightning, which comes from the east and flashes to the west. I see verses 28 and 29 as returning to a description of the preceeding period, and in vs 30 He reiterates and expands upon His sudden and dramatic return. "all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory"! There is some more explanation, and the in vs 44 it is summed up, "the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect"! Following on, we have the parable of the ten virgins, which clearly illustrate that it is then too late for those who were not prepared. Therefore, the mustard seed must at this stage, have consumated it's growth.
Now, all this is devastating for the likes of Jehovah Witnesses, who tell us that Yeshua has been in hiding since 1914, or the various new age groups who from time to time promote some guru as a person in the name or type of Christ.
I'd just like to re-iterate something I've said in another stream:
When you say, "Israel is Israel, and the Church is the Church. In this case, I was thinking of the church as the universal body of believers in Yeshua, incorporating both Jews and Gentiles," you're right...to a point...and you are wrong, too.
You're right that the Jews have no better standing than we Gentiles do in the Messiah; you're right that we are all "saved" the same.
HOWEVER, the Jews who are "saved" are NOT absorbed into this thing called "the Church." Instead, it is WE GENTILES WHO BELIEVE that are absorbed into the COMMONWEALTH OF ISRA'EL! WE are grafted into the Olive Branch, which represents God's Kingdom on earth, which was once presided over by King Daviyd!
Pay close attention to the wording in the following passages:
Rom 11:11-29
11 I say then, Have they (the Jews) stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead (RESURRECTION!)?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion (or Zion, the mountain in Jerusalem) the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. (God doesn't CHANGE HIS MIND about His gifts or His calling! If He called the Jews "my people" before, He will do so again! We just have the good grace of God to be included in His "my people," too!)
KJV
Eph 2:11-22
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ (a Messiah), being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus (Messiah Yeshua`) ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God (that's not "the Church" but is the aforementioned "commonwealth of Isra'el," for the "saints" are the "holy ones" of the OT Scriptures!);
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ (Yeshua` Messiah) himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
KJV
Furthermore, I'd have you read Luke 1:30-33 carefully, as well:
Luke 1:30-33
30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob (Isra'el) for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
KJV
Thus, His Kingdom ON EARTH is not just for a thousand years but is FOREVER and THERE SHALL BE NO END!
May the Master richly bless you in your study (because if you "bless Isra'el," you yourself, now a part of that Isra'el, will also be blessed)! It's a great irony!
Retrobyter
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