How would you react. (Full Version)

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lightshineon -> How would you react. (6/25/2008 9:59:43 AM)

[8|] My brother is a royal pain in the keester. I tell him that all the time, he is so annoying, he is a middle aged man, but emotionally five years old, and that is being gracious. He is mentally ill, and has drug problems, he and his wife both. I just got a new car, a very nice car I wanted for a very long time. I am not a materalistic person or bragging, I had to wait for a long, long, time. Anyway I go to pick them up at thier apartments to see my mom who is the hospital ( they do not have a car) My car is a convertabile and he walk up, and started bending the antenna (sp). Not bending it, but pushing it close, he did it several times. I said " Stop"!, he said this junk heap, who cares. Well long story shot we hasd to stop at the corner get and go for him to but skol, long cut winter green, through the window. I told my brother do not open it in my car, he had nothing to spit in, and it stinks, and I was afraid would spit it in my leather seats, or floor board. He said he swolled it. The guy at the git and go dropped thier change, and said the "S" word that irritated me . My bother opended the skol anyway, despite what I said. He cussed me out, with the "S" word I told him I was going to call " Frank" my husband he said " I do not care." more profanity. He said my Christian music was giving him a headache, I turned it up louder. He slammed my daughters car in park, one time while it was going 35 mph once, when I was driving it.
I do not really tell my husband these things usually, because, I do not want to hear the rant from him about my brother. My husband is no nonsense type of man.
Iwas telling my friend about it on the phone husband walked in and heard it. I do not know why I ws even telling friend, usually do not but did last night. My husband was furious, said "my brother can only ride in the "van" with him, and never in the car again!" Crazy as this sounds, that makes me feel bad when, it is just a car, and my brother when he is sweet, he is very sweet. When he is a jerk, he is a jerk. I love him anyway, and understand he is mentally unbalanced. Should I talk to husband, and tell him I will not stop again for tobbaco? Let it ride, so brother will learn a lesson? I hate being mean to the disabled, and sometimes, my husband is at work, and most of the time, he has the van. If they need a ride I do not know what to do. How would you speak to brother about this. I have a hardtime in these situations. The other day, I took it for a oil change, the man pulled it in wit a ciggertte hanging out of his mouth, just in his lips, it made my car smell like stinky smoke for a bit. I did not say anything then. I wanted to, but did not. Anyway any advice (LOL) for me, car, husband, brother. I am very picky with everything I have, so maybe I could react in a non-picky, snoody way, that would make brother act better. Thanks[8D][8D][8D][:o]



pbaribeault -> RE: How would you react. (6/25/2008 10:58:48 AM)

He sounds childishly jealous and self-focused, but I'm not sure why you continue to allow him to do as he likes.

(1) You can let his insults about your car slide off your back (he's only jealous and petty) but if he is doing damage, you can simply tell him that he can stop it or you can go without him today.

The next part of the story, I believe is about chewing tobacco?

(2) I get why you would drive him to see his mom in the hospital, but why on earth would you make a stop to support a filthy addiction (and call it something you needed to do)?

(3) If you told him not to open it in your car, and he did anyways, why did you not just make him get out until he could make an appropriate choice regarding your rules in your vehicle?

(4) If he is cussing you out, why is he still in your car?

Now, because you chose not to put up any boundaries to protect your sanity, you became frustrated and reactive. You turned up your music just to prove that you can do what you want in your car, and incidentally to tick him off in revenge. You argued with an irrational "5 year old" for no reason but to vent your own feelings. These are not the godly and rational choices that you could have made earlier while you were calm.

(5) Anybody who slams my car into park while I am driving it gets treated to a wait at the side of the road (in park) until they choose to sit in the back seat.

Your husband may be angry and "rant" but the substance of his response is pretty good. Your brother does not respect you and is not going to respect your vehicle. He is best riding in a less damageable vehicle with a driver that can control him.

5 year olds are sweet too, but if they can't control themselves, they don't get to go where they want to go. You are confusing love with indulgence. Tough love helps him learn to cope with the world and get along well in life. Indulgence lets him do whatever he feels like with no control or consequences. (Which one of these is 'mean'er to the disabled?) Real love has his best interests at heart, not his desires. Real love doesn't do whatever it takes to keep someone else happy -- that's not love. Is it possible that you are afraid of what a 5 year old mind can do to you with a grown up's body & strength?

Yes, support your husband's new transportation plan, with all the limits it places on the privilege of sometimes getting a ride, until your brother learns some manners as a passenger. After the lesson is learned, with your husband's support, you can begin to give him rides again, but keep him on a short leash.

Next time he wants a ride, say, "Sorry, I can't. I won't be giving you rides in my car any more. You can call Frank if you need a ride. Frank can answer your questions about this new plan."

Side advice: At the oil change say, "I'll be having my car driven only by non-smokers. You are a non-smoker aren't you?" (big smile)



still4gvn -> RE: How would you react. (6/25/2008 12:28:07 PM)

Your husband sounds like a keeper. In my opinion it sounds dangerous to drive your brother. He is capable of causing an accident which could kill someone. Perhaps he needs to wait for rides till your husband can be there.



Leslie_JnJs_mom -> RE: How would you react. (6/25/2008 3:59:31 PM)

I would treat him like I would any other 5 year old. If you cannot behave you cannot go. 5 year olds need to sit in the back seat. They also get no food or drink since they are messy. Since your brother is not really a 5 year old I would say the cussing and not respecting your property would land him on the side of the road.



preserved -> RE: How would you react. (6/25/2008 5:08:22 PM)

If your brother is mentally ill and has drug problems....then you should be attentive to his illness in oppose to his behavior...

You are a bit much over the edge in regards to your vehicle...otherwise as your husband suggest since this car is so precious to you...ride him in the van?



crankius -> RE: How would you react. (6/25/2008 5:44:19 PM)

--Your husband is protecting you, and is willing to step up and give your brother rides when necessary. That is a great thing.

--Personally, I don't let people smoke in my car because smoke makes me seriously sick. I have a terrible allergy to smoke. It is reasonable to ask the workers to please not smoke in your car, and you don't have to explain your reasons.

--Because your brother is mentally ill and also has a drug problem, you can't relate to him like a reasonable, rational person. I agree that his disrespect for you and his irrational behavior could cause an accident or other harm to you.

It seems to me that it is wise for you to maintain strong boundaries with him. You can find other ways to be a good sister and help him out when he needs help, like giving him bus tickets or coupons for a taxi or dropping by food when he needs it, etc.



agapetos -> RE: How would you react. (6/25/2008 5:44:59 PM)

Make it a rule that no one eats, drinks, smokes or other in your car. Therefore there is no need for them to be carrying anything. If they need to stop off to get something, it can go in the boot until you are at your destination, or they can walk (or go with your dh). You may need to remind your brother of this before every trip though.

While other people swearing isn't nice to hear, it's not going to hurt or damage your car, let it go.

quote:

The other day, I took it for a oil change, the man pulled it in wit a ciggertte hanging out of his mouth, just in his lips, it made my car smell like stinky smoke for a bit. I did not say anything then.
Then get your dh to change the oil, or go somewhere where you know the mechanic isn't going to come near your car with a cigarette dangling out of his mouth.



preserved -> RE: How would you react. (6/25/2008 5:58:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: agapetos

Make it a rule that no one eats, drinks, smokes or other in your car. Therefore there is no need for them to be carrying anything. If they need to stop off to get something, it can go in the boot until you are at your destination, or they can walk (or go with your dh). You may need to remind your brother of this before every trip though.

While other people swearing isn't nice to hear, it's not going to hurt or damage your car, let it go.

quote:

The other day, I took it for a oil change, the man pulled it in wit a ciggertte hanging out of his mouth, just in his lips, it made my car smell like stinky smoke for a bit. I did not say anything then.
Then get your dh to change the oil, or go somewhere where you know the mechanic isn't going to come near your car with a cigarette dangling out of his mouth.


This should go for both vehicles?



agapetos -> RE: How would you react. (6/25/2008 6:43:55 PM)

quote:

This should go for both vehicles?
That'd be up to lightshineon and her dh. Personally, I'd say yes, at least until the brother learnt to behave.



manda59 -> RE: How would you react. (6/25/2008 7:28:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Well long story shot we hasd to stop at the corner get and go for him to but skol, long cut winter green, through the window.


Sorry, I don't get this - why did you HAVE to stop to get this? If it was me giving someone a ride, we would not have stopped to buy stuff to feed their addictions.

quote:


I told my brother do not open it in my car, he had nothing to spit in, and it stinks, and I was afraid would spit it in my leather seats, or floor board. He said he swolled it. The guy at the git and go dropped thier change, and said the "S" word that irritated me . My bother opended the skol anyway, despite what I said. He cussed me out, with the "S" word I told him I was going to call " Frank" my husband he said " I do not care." more profanity. He said my Christian music was giving him a headache, I turned it up louder.


lightshineon, why oh why do you allow yourself to be treated, ie abused, in this way? You are worth so much more than this.

quote:


I do not really tell my husband these things usually, because, I do not want to hear the rant from him about my brother.


Why not? Right now I am imagining that whatever he says is true, and straight down the line.

quote:


My husband is no nonsense type of man.


Sounds like someone needs to be!

quote:


I love him anyway, and understand he is mentally unbalanced.


Mentally unbalanced or not, he should NOT be allowed to abuse you and your kindness. To allow him to do this to you is NOT loving him, it is enabling him.

quote:


I hate being mean to the disabled


You are excusing his appalling behaviour by calling him "disabled"? Even disabled people have to take responsibility for themselves. You say he is "mentally ill" - what is wrong with him?

quote:


If they need a ride I do not know what to do.


I can tell you: it's called "Sorry, no can do"

quote:


so maybe I could react in a non-picky, snoody way, that would make brother act better.


His behaviour is HIS responsibility, not yours.



Jenny-Fair -> RE: How would you react. (6/25/2008 7:36:46 PM)

You are acting just as immaturely as your brother. Telling him he's annoying and a pain in the rear? Lying about him to your husband. Turning your music up when he complained. What did you think these things would get you?

Personally if someone showed destructive tendencies toward my property, they would not be getting any more rides from me. But you may also want to examine why you are willing to stoop to his level.[8|]



lightshineon -> RE: How would you react. (6/25/2008 9:16:06 PM)

I do not lie to husband, outright just by omission. My brother has schizophrenia so does wife. I love him, and her despite faults. I feel like I have to protect my elderly parents from stress form him and his wife. You never know what you will get. Sometimes an devil, sometimes an angel. Ok, turning the music up was immature, but, because it is Christian, even if I had it low, he still would have complained, it is callled conviction. But so true, I did scoop to his level. The tabacco issue, is their problem, and most mental patients use some form of tabacco They really go nutsy, with out it. Guy's I have put up with so much, this is not whining. It is just tough dealing with mentally ill family members. I am more longsuffering than my husband. I have had it out with him, there is no reasoning with him when he is in a state. His wife is very sweet, but they feed off each others illness. I liked the suggestion to the oil change guy, it was one nasty smelling ciggerate. They are not allowed to smoke in the van either, he just does not buck Frank ever. Perserved, people mean more than things do, but, gee I mean, why let someone tear it up I guess what I am looking for is how to deal with people who are ill, with kindness, but firmness. Anyone else deal with family who is mentaly ill? Do you treat them firmly, kindly, both. My husband is good at it, like I said, no nonsense, but he is huge. If it makes anyone feel any better, once, I slapped him for using my money to buy wine. It did not make me feel better though, for a minute it did, but not in the long run. Thanks Guys, wise advice.[:)] Dealing with unbalnced people with balance is almost impossible (LOL)
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair

You are acting just as immaturely as your brother. Telling him he's annoying and a pain in the rear? Lying about him to your husband. Turning your music up when he complained. What did you think these things would get you?

Personally if someone showed destructive tendencies toward my property, they would not be getting any more rides from me. But you may also want to examine why you are willing to stoop to his level.[8|]



Jenny-Fair -> RE: How would you react. (6/25/2008 9:20:38 PM)

quote:

If it makes anyone feel any better, once, I slapped him for using my money to buy wine.

That was abusive, not righteous.

I would really suggest that until you can get some counselling on how to deal with your brother, you simply stay away from him. You aren't helping him or yourself acting this way.



manda59 -> RE: How would you react. (6/25/2008 9:30:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon
My brother has schizophrenia so does wife.


So, do they take their meds?

quote:


I feel like I have to protect my elderly parents from stress form him and his wife.


How old are they?

quote:


The tabacco issue, is their problem, and most mental patients use some form of tabacco They really go nutsy, with out it.


But they don't have to use it around you. Even schizophrenic people are capable of good manners.

quote:


I guess what I am looking for is how to deal with people who are ill, with kindness, but firmness.


Have you ever read "Boundaries" by Cloud and Townsend? I would seriously suggest that you borrow a copy from your library or buy yourself a copy.

quote:


Anyone else deal with family who is mentaly ill? Do you treat them firmly, kindly, both.


Close friends, not family - but yes to kindly but firmly, and I don't let them walk all over me or run rings around me.

quote:


If it makes anyone feel any better, once, I slapped him for using my money to buy wine.


lightshineone, I hope you don't mind me giving you some more advice: NEVER GIVE MONEY to people with an addiction. I will willingly buy people food, rail tickets etc, but never give them money. For both our sakes.



lightshineon -> RE: How would you react. (6/25/2008 9:48:35 PM)

Jenny this was a longtime ago, the slapping. I never give them money anymore, not for years. I will check out the book boundries (thanks). My parents are 73, and sixty six. Mom has MRSA, and is very sick, her heart is acting up, so she is in hospital, until today. On May 20, daddy had heart surgery. I love them all, and I cannot stay away from my brother and SIL. When I have they have overdosed both at once. They depend on mom and dad, and really get on Dads nerves. My brother talks disrespect about our country, dad loses it, mom gets nervous. BTW, I am not abusive Jenny. I had a failure, I am human, I slapped him to get the wine, my bad.I will get the book. Do you know if it deals with the mentally ill? I wish they had more support groups for families in my area. I suggested it to their counsler, she said it sounded interesting. There are so many rights to protect their rights though. There have been funny times too, as bizzare as it sounds. i could write a book[;)]



Jenny-Fair -> RE: How would you react. (6/25/2008 9:51:47 PM)

quote:

I cannot stay away from my brother and SIL. When I have they have overdosed both at once.

You are saying they overdosed because of something YOU did. This is classic codependant thinking. Reading a book is not going to help. You clearly have had this unhealthy relationship with your brother for decades and you need to be willing to change, and you will need help to do it.

Btw, you not only slapped your brother, you posted here as if you were proud of it.



manda59 -> RE: How would you react. (6/25/2008 10:01:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon
I cannot stay away from my brother and SIL. When I have they have overdosed both at once.


That was their choice, not something you caused.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair
You are saying they overdosed because of something YOU did. This is classic codependant thinking.


Yes it is. I was leading up to this, lightshineon. You and your brother have a codependent relationship, and codependencies are unhealthy, toxic even. Are you familiar with the term "codependent"/"codependency"?

quote:


Reading a book is not going to help.


I beg to differ. It could be the first step along the road to recovery. "Boundaries" by Cloud and Townsend is all about setting healthy boundaries (hence the name), and deals specifically with codependent relationships.



lightshineon -> RE: How would you react. (6/25/2008 10:40:41 PM)

Jenny dismount your " I am Holier than thou throne". ,I am not proud of slapping him Gee, where is your thinking? When they are isolated without a car, and some ( slight) support. The voices ( seriously) work on thier heads, telling them they are worthless. and such. I know it is not my fault that they make choices the voices tell them, but for what it is worth, I do not visit evryday. I call my Sil, and try and gage how they are doing. Jenny I am not hopeless, or nuts yet. I am sure a book could still help me. How healthy can the relationship be, except from my side? I have not gone off the deep end yet believe it or not. My brother will hardly leave the apartment anymore, he is frightened ( the voices). Thinking from their prespective it must be tormenting to have vocies in your head. Manda, they have medcation but do not take it. I am getting the book.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair

quote:

I cannot stay away from my brother and SIL. When I have they have overdosed both at once.

You are saying they overdosed because of something YOU did. This is classic codependant thinking. Reading a book is not going to help. You clearly have had this unhealthy relationship with your brother for decades and you need to be willing to change, and you will need help to do it.

Btw, you not only slapped your brother, you posted here as if you were proud of it.



manda59 -> RE: How would you react. (6/25/2008 10:44:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon
My brother will hardly leave the apartment anymore, he is frightened ( the voices). Thinking from their prespective it must be tormenting to have vocies in your head. Manda, they have medcation but do not take it.



Why don't they take their meds?

And the not leaving the apartment doesn't make sense - the "voices" are likely to be just as active in the apartment as outside it. Are you sure it's not just an attention-seeking ploy?

How do they get their groceries btw?



lightshineon -> RE: How would you react. (6/25/2008 10:49:37 PM)

The side effects is why. the meds. I take them to the store (SIL) only., or daddy. Brother thinks FBI is after them. A common thought if you study this illness.



Jenny-Fair -> RE: How would you react. (6/25/2008 10:52:55 PM)

quote:

Jenny dismount your " I am Holier than thou throne". ,I am not proud of slapping him Gee, where is your thinking?

At the moment, I am thinking you are in serious denial and you don't really want any help.



lightshineon -> RE: How would you react. (6/25/2008 10:54:34 PM)

Ok Jenny your right I am in denial.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair

quote:

Jenny dismount your " I am Holier than thou throne". ,I am not proud of slapping him Gee, where is your thinking?

At the moment, I am thinking you are in serious denial and you don't really want any help.



zmanfan38 -> RE: How would you react. (6/25/2008 11:57:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

The side effects is why. the meds. I take them to the store (SIL) only., or daddy. Brother thinks FBI is after them. A common thought if you study this illness.

That is so sad. I don't have any experience with your brother's illness, but my FIL has Parkinson's Disease and he has had some heartbreaking paranoid episodes (on his meds and for a time when he had to wean off all meds just before a brain surgery).

For him the "voices" (irrational thoughts) did the same thing about him not wanting to leave his house. He was convinced that people with guns were coming through the walls into their house and he felt more safe inside. He actually had a different episode where he wouldn't go into his house and they had to spend the night somewhere else. Like you said, lightshineon, you never know what you're going to get.

I have never read Boundaries, but I hope you are able to get some answers there.



Kat_D -> RE: How would you react. (6/26/2008 12:16:40 AM)

quote:

"Boundaries" by Cloud and Townsend


I wish someone could take a tally...I'm sure this book is recommended more than the Bible in these forums and that really bothers me.

Light, I'm sure it's very frustrating to have a brother like this and I'm sure you are doing your best, but if he has provoked you to anger to the point of slapping him, then I do think you may have to reevaluate your relationship. The Bible is clear about how we are to treat others...

10 "Be kindly affectionate to one another with brotherly love, in honor giving preference to one another; 11 not lagging in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord; 12 rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer; 13 distributing to the needs of the saints, given to hospitality. 14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. 15 Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep. 16 Be of the same mind toward one another." -Romans 12

If, because of your brother's inapproprite behavior, it is difficult for you to put these Scriptures into action, I think it may be a better that you not see him without your husband being present.

Pray and seek the Lord about this, I know He'll be faithful to show you exactly what to do and give you peace about your decision.



PatricksPeaches -> RE: How would you react. (6/26/2008 1:48:16 AM)

I think that this is a codependency issue also. You care for your brother and no one is asking you not too. But his actions are putting you at risk in some ways. He may be challenged mentally but you can not help him of he is not willing to help himself. You say he doesn't take his meds and uses drugs: he doesn't want to help himself! You can not change him or his wife. You need to set boundaries and follow them. He does these things because he knows you won't do anything about it. Stand up for yourself. I am not saying don't care anymore but it sounds a bit like he is taking advantage of you. Since this sounds like it is a big issue, I suggest some kind of support group for people who have family with addictions. I am not judging you or saying I am better than you, I have experience with codependency. My DH is dealing with an addiction (is doing good now).



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