No death penalty for child rapists (Full Version)

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Leslie_JnJs_mom -> No death penalty for child rapists (6/25/2008 1:35:05 PM)

I am not entirely sure how I feel about this. On one hand there was a little 10 year old girl just raped and murdered by her stepfather. People like that need to go explain to God why they did that. One the other if a person is falsely convicted there is not going back and undoing an execution.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080625/ap_on_go_su_co/scotus_child_rape



WesP -> RE: No death penalty for child rapists (6/25/2008 1:38:15 PM)

I am broken-hearted about this. The recidivism rate for child molesters is disgusting. They should be taken out of society completely. The bible itself tells us the consequences of harming a child intentionally.



blessedinnyc -> RE: No death penalty for child rapists (6/25/2008 1:39:18 PM)

Somehow, I think it just makes sense to only use the death penalty for crimes that take life. I'm not sure how I feel about the SC getting involved in a state's criminal justice system, but ever since Solon took over in Greece a few millenia ago, it seems to make sense to have a sort of proportionate penalty for a crime.

If you rape a child, you've caused problems that he will have to deal with for the rest of his/her life. If you murder a child, you've killed him.

In one case, we should put you away for the rest of your life. In the other, it may also be appropriate to kill you.



blessedinnyc -> RE: No death penalty for child rapists (6/25/2008 1:42:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesP

I am broken-hearted about this. The recidivism rate for child molesters is disgusting. They should be taken out of society completely.

Thus, Midwestern states came up with the brilliant innovation in criminal justice called "Life without parole."

quote:

The bible itself tells us the consequences of harming a child intentionally.

It also tells us the consequences of being an insolent child whose parents take him to the town elders. Or kidnapping. Or doing seemingly random "unclean" things.



Sophie11 -> RE: No death penalty for child rapists (6/25/2008 1:47:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc

It also tells us the consequences of being an insolent child whose parents take him to the town elders. Or kidnapping. Or doing seemingly random "unclean" things.


What on earth does that have to do with this topic?



WesP -> RE: No death penalty for child rapists (6/25/2008 2:00:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesP

I am broken-hearted about this. The recidivism rate for child molesters is disgusting. They should be taken out of society completely.

Thus, Midwestern states came up with the brilliant innovation in criminal justice called "Life without parole."

quote:

The bible itself tells us the consequences of harming a child intentionally.

It also tells us the consequences of being an insolent child whose parents take him to the town elders. Or kidnapping. Or doing seemingly random "unclean" things.


Life without parole gets you 3 meals a day, medical and psychiatric counselling whenever you need it, yada, yada. What does the child get as a guarantee? Most of these children experience a life of grief. You had to reach back to the 613 laws and twist the context to argue against what God says about children. Good job!



Stephanos -> RE: No death penalty for child rapists (6/25/2008 2:04:02 PM)

This ruling is especially sad in light of this:

Mass Lawmaker promises to "rip apart" Child Rape victims at trial

I am all for fair and equal representation under the law. But we have a guy hear rallying against minimum sentences for child rapists! Forget about the death penalty, this guy is upset about a 10 year minimum!!!



Sophie11 -> RE: No death penalty for child rapists (6/25/2008 2:09:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephanos

This ruling is especially sad in light of this:

Mass Lawmaker promises to "rip apart" Child Rape victims at trial


I heard an audio clip of this guy. It's absolutely disgusting.



blessedinnyc -> RE: No death penalty for child rapists (6/25/2008 2:14:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesP
Life without parole gets you 3 meals a day, medical and psychiatric counselling whenever you need it, yada, yada. What does the child get as a guarantee? Most of these children experience a life of grief. You had to reach back to the 613 laws and twist the context to argue against what God says about children. Good job!

You said we should take them out of society completely.

Alternatively, we could force them to be homeless, but then they would still be a part of society. And most inmates would rather be homeless than be in jail.



WesP -> RE: No death penalty for child rapists (6/25/2008 2:19:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesP
Life without parole gets you 3 meals a day, medical and psychiatric counselling whenever you need it, yada, yada. What does the child get as a guarantee? Most of these children experience a life of grief. You had to reach back to the 613 laws and twist the context to argue against what God says about children. Good job!

You said we should take them out of society completely.

Alternatively, we could force them to be homeless, but then they would still be a part of society. And most inmates would rather be homeless than be in jail.


Let me amend my statement. Let's say completely, permanently, and no chance of escape. IOW, administer the death penalty. Then they could have a very warm home (unless they repented - which recidivism suggests does not happen very much at all).



blessedinnyc -> RE: No death penalty for child rapists (6/25/2008 2:25:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesP
Let me amend my statement. Let's say completely, permanently, and no chance of escape. IOW, administer the death penalty. Then they could have a very warm home (unless they repented - which recidivism suggests does not happen very much at all).

So, since Northern prisons are pretty secure, we translate that into "Life without parole."



rowsdower -> RE: No death penalty for child rapists (6/25/2008 2:36:44 PM)

I think the term they used to oppose this was that it was cruel and unusual punishment. This is utterly laughable. That's saying that raping a child is NOT cruel and unusual against the child. But honestly, I'm not surprised by this or the fact that the Mass. Lawmaker all but indicted children who are raped as being the real criminals.

This is iron clad evidence that we have some mentally ill people running this country; people who call evil good and good evil, just like the bible says -- totally divorced from reality, reason and just plain human decency. And, while I'd rather not bring politics into this, bottom line is the people attacking the innocent and pouring compassion out on the murderers and rapists are LIBERALS.[:(]

I see it everyday: I live in a city where a totally liberal city council embraces illegal gang members who murder Americans and offers them sanctuary, while spitting in the face of law abiding citizens who call for simple enforcement of the law to protect them. [:@][:@][:@][:@]



WesP -> RE: No death penalty for child rapists (6/25/2008 2:39:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesP
Let me amend my statement. Let's say completely, permanently, and no chance of escape. IOW, administer the death penalty. Then they could have a very warm home (unless they repented - which recidivism suggests does not happen very much at all).

So, since Northern prisons are pretty secure, we translate that into "Life without parole."


How.....blasé. Have you ever had family members sexually assaulted? Have you witnessed the betrayal of those young ones when the perpetrator got out only to continue on the same route? What purpose is there in life without parole? If society could stomach a bit of punishment, the deterrent would have meaning.



Stephanos -> RE: No death penalty for child rapists (6/25/2008 2:42:07 PM)

It is not surprizing that it was a 5-4 vote along ideological lines. This is more proof that we need Sen McCain in office as it is likely Souter and possibly Stevens may not be staying on the bench much longer. While with McCain it could be as high as 50-50 on getting another Roberts/Alito or some lib judge, we know that Obama will give us another Ginsburg, Stevens, Souter ect. If nothing else the mere possibility of of getting a 5-3-1 (concervitive, lib, swing) SCOTUS is worth putting up with all the other flaws that McCain has.



ElmerFishpaw -> RE: No death penalty for child rapists (6/25/2008 2:44:49 PM)

One thing here....as much as child rapists are evil, A child rapist facing a death penalty would be more likely to kill the child to insure no witnesses. A 8x8 foot concrete cell, aluminum toilet, 2 meals of something horrible like lima beans and poached herring and no contact with a human ever would be good enough punishment for me.



StephK -> RE: No death penalty for child rapists (6/25/2008 2:45:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesP
Life without parole gets you 3 meals a day, medical and psychiatric counselling whenever you need it, yada, yada. What does the child get as a guarantee? Most of these children experience a life of grief. You had to reach back to the 613 laws and twist the context to argue against what God says about children. Good job!

You said we should take them out of society completely.

Alternatively, we could force them to be homeless, but then they would still be a part of society. And most inmates would rather be homeless than be in jail.


You need to read what this monster did to his 8 year old stepdaughter and then tried to blame two neighborhood kids. This was a heinous crime. This girl will be scarred for life.

www.lasc.org/opinions/2007/05KA1981.opn.pdf



Sophie11 -> RE: No death penalty for child rapists (6/25/2008 2:51:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElmerFishpaw

One thing here....as much as child rapists are evil, A child rapist facing a death penalty would be more likely to kill the child to insure no witnesses. A 8x8 foot concrete cell, aluminum toilet, 2 meals of something horrible like lima beans and poached herring and no contact with a human ever would be good enough punishment for me.


And what makes you think that someone so abhorrent who would rape a child to begin with wouldn't kill a child to stay out of jail either?

If some pitiful excuse for a human being wants to rape a child, I hardly think they are worrying about the consequences IF they are caught, they are more than likely only worrying about NOT getting caught.



WesP -> RE: No death penalty for child rapists (6/25/2008 2:54:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElmerFishpaw

One thing here....as much as child rapists are evil, A child rapist facing a death penalty would be more likely to kill the child to insure no witnesses. A 8x8 foot concrete cell, aluminum toilet, 2 meals of something horrible like lima beans and poached herring and no contact with a human ever would be good enough punishment for me.


But we are not trying to punish you! [;)]

If the justice system would prosecute and follow up in a timely manner, then criminals would be deterred from committing crimes. As it is, we encourage them to do their worst. What is going to happen to them? Not much. Life without parole is rare. Murder will get you 7-10 years on the average. WOW!



SteveSund -> RE: No death penalty for child rapists (6/25/2008 3:05:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesP
If society could stomach a bit of punishment, the deterrent would have meaning.


The death penalty doesn't deter murderers, why would it make a difference in the case of child rapists?

I will have to read the decision, but I am leaning towards agreeing with the dissent. I am anti-death penalty, but this issue is better left up to the states to decide.



tracydolls -> RE: No death penalty for child rapists (6/25/2008 3:05:25 PM)

Are you guys really really surprised about this?

I mean really. All the studies and stats out there as to WHY child rapists don't do alot of time.

Are we really surprised, they are not gonna do that much time.

It has nothing to do with liberal or conservatives.



blessedinnyc -> RE: No death penalty for child rapists (6/25/2008 3:13:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: StephK
You need to read what this monster did to his 8 year old stepdaughter and then tried to blame two neighborhood kids. This was a heinous crime. This girl will be scarred for life.

www.lasc.org/opinions/2007/05KA1981.opn.pdf

Yes. And he will be in jail for life, exactly where he should be.

The fact that you are a monster doesn't mean you should die. In this country, we punish people for what they do; not who they are. In order to have a proportionate punishment, we can only punish crimes that result in death with the death penalty.

That doesn't mean this guy won't be killed in prison in the next year or two, if that's any consolation...



WesP -> RE: No death penalty for child rapists (6/25/2008 3:14:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteveSund

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesP
If society could stomach a bit of punishment, the deterrent would have meaning.


The death penalty doesn't deter murderers, why would it make a difference in the case of child rapists?

I will have to read the decision, but I am leaning towards agreeing with the dissent. I am anti-death penalty, but this issue is better left up to the states to decide.


I stand by my statement. If the punishments were actually administered, they would be a deterrent. If you threaten your child but never deliver the spanking, they will learn to ignore you. Same principle applies here. There are basic fundamentals to human nature, and it starts with a child.



CatholicCritter -> RE: No death penalty for child rapists (6/25/2008 3:17:19 PM)

as one who sees the death penalty as almost entirely obsolete, i'm good with this decision. as a citizen of the US, i can only shake my head at Kennedy's opinion.

being ruled by unelected philosopher kings is getting really old.



ElmerFishpaw -> RE: No death penalty for child rapists (6/25/2008 3:20:47 PM)

Sophie11....I thought that's what I just wrote.....if there were a death penalty for child rape, a child rapist would more likely kill the victim to insure the child could not be a witness..

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sophie11

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElmerFishpaw

One thing here....as much as child rapists are evil, A child rapist facing a death penalty would be more likely to kill the child to insure no witnesses. A 8x8 foot concrete cell, aluminum toilet, 2 meals of something horrible like lima beans and poached herring and no contact with a human ever would be good enough punishment for me.


And what makes you think that someone so abhorrent who would rape a child to begin with wouldn't kill a child to stay out of jail either?

If some pitiful excuse for a human being wants to rape a child, I hardly think they are worrying about the consequences IF they are caught, they are more than likely only worrying about NOT getting caught.



ElmerFishpaw -> RE: No death penalty for child rapists (6/25/2008 3:23:25 PM)

Ahhh words.....I meant it would satisfy my wanting justice...not that I'm being punished


quote:

ORIGINAL: WesP

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElmerFishpaw

One thing here....as much as child rapists are evil, A child rapist facing a death penalty would be more likely to kill the child to insure no witnesses. A 8x8 foot concrete cell, aluminum toilet, 2 meals of something horrible like lima beans and poached herring and no contact with a human ever would be good enough punishment for me.


But we are not trying to punish you! [;)]

If the justice system would prosecute and follow up in a timely manner, then criminals would be deterred from committing crimes. As it is, we encourage them to do their worst. What is going to happen to them? Not much. Life without parole is rare. Murder will get you 7-10 years on the average. WOW!



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