Nice Guys Finish Last at Least So They Say (Full Version)

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humbleinspirit -> Nice Guys Finish Last at Least So They Say (6/25/2008 10:42:08 PM)

I was reading an article on Yahoo last week that nice guys finish last. It said that nice guys are boring and predictable to women and that they like adventurous and risk taking men instead.

In Christian circles I have found that to be a little bit different. It appears that woment are looking for strong men of God instead.

So what is your take on all of this?

Guys: have you found that nice guys indeed finish last?

Gals: do you find nice men boring?

all comments welcome. Inquiring minds want to know!

Here is a link to the article for those who are interested:Why Nice Guys Finish Last.



woodwind228 -> RE: Nice Guys Finish Last at Least So They Say (6/25/2008 10:46:38 PM)

I don't find nice men boring at all.



ShallbeRebuilt -> RE: Nice Guys Finish Last at Least So They Say (6/25/2008 10:47:08 PM)

Mike, I think before we can have an effective conversation about this we're going to have to define some things:

What do you mean by nice??? What do you mean by "last"???

My ddh was very nice. Everyone said so. Yet he was a strong man of God, and a very manly man as well.

I leave it up to the readers to decide whether in winning me he "finished last".

But we can't just say "nice" and base our decisions on that. We need a more definitive description.

besiderself



humbleinspirit -> RE: Nice Guys Finish Last at Least So They Say (6/25/2008 10:48:23 PM)

Good Woodwind, I am glad to hear that the article is not all stereotypical. The question seems more true with unbelievers than with Christians instead.



humbleinspirit -> RE: Nice Guys Finish Last at Least So They Say (6/25/2008 10:51:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: besiderself

Mike, I think before we can have an effective conversation about this we're going to have to define some things:

What do you mean by nice??? What do you mean by "last"???

My ddh was very nice. Everyone said so. Yet he was a strong man of God, and a very manly man as well.

I leave it up to the readers to decide whether in winning me he "finished last".

But we can't just say "nice" and base our decisions on that. We need a more definitive description.

besiderself


Hi Esther, I would say nice as opposed to "bad boys". And last meaning that they do not get the woman that they are interested in because their women friends see them as "just a good friend" instead. I hope that helps. I could look up the article and post it here too if anyone is interested.



Mrs.Above_All -> RE: Nice Guys Finish Last at Least So They Say (6/25/2008 11:19:20 PM)

I'd be interested to know actually if guys define "nice guy" differently from women do. As a woman, I would say I define a nice guy and simply a man who has a sensitive side. I think that men can be both manly AND sensitive but some women think that men are either or. As much as women know that sensitivity in a man is a good quality, for the most part women still want a manly man. They just don't realize that a man can be both. I also think some women mistaken the "bad boy" as a manly man.

Christian women seem to know better than unbelievers. But even in the Christian arena we can easily have unrealistic expectations on men. I do really hope that Christian women understand what it means to want a G-dly man. In our minds we have an idea of what a G-dly man should be like. There are many examples in the bible that tell us what a G-dly man is like. But these were kings and prophets. These were Apostles. These were very special people chosen by G-d. And these people were still not perfect. A G-dly man is naturally "nice".

In regards to the OP's question, nice guys can be very fun!



ShallbeRebuilt -> RE: Nice Guys Finish Last at Least So They Say (6/25/2008 11:41:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit

quote:

ORIGINAL: besiderself

Mike, I think before we can have an effective conversation about this we're going to have to define some things:

What do you mean by nice??? What do you mean by "last"???

My ddh was very nice. Everyone said so. Yet he was a strong man of God, and a very manly man as well.

I leave it up to the readers to decide whether in winning me he "finished last".

But we can't just say "nice" and base our decisions on that. We need a more definitive description.

besiderself


Hi Esther, I would say nice as opposed to "bad boys". And last meaning that they do not get the woman that they are interested in because their women friends see them as "just a good friend" instead. I hope that helps. I could look up the article and post it here too if anyone is interested.


Hmmm...in my experience it seems that there is a lot of room for speculation in the "nice" category. Some guys are really, really nice. So nice that they have no backbone. Sorry, but I need a guy who can stand up to the world for me, stand up to Satan for me, and stand up even to ME sometimes. Backbone is necessary.

But there are plenty "nice" guys with backbone. Many of them even know how to express that backbone tactfully yet forcefully...in other words, in a godly manner.

On the other hand, the pastor of the church I left before joining the one I'm at now would qualify as "nice". But in actuality he's a sick, manipulative, chauvinistic bully. More of the bad boy type...but you can't tell until it's too late.

On the other hand (woops, I think I have three hands, now). I've also seen guys that are just kind of too nice, and wimpy to my tastes...but they marry and their wives love them and they are strong in their marriage. There's a deep down strength. That's "nice" too.

Maybe I'm missing the point because I didn't read the article (I don't put much credence in the things Yahoo puts up on their home page...it's mostly sensationalism anyway.) But I need a better definition of "nice" if I'm going to answer your questions...

So I'll supply my own...

For me, a "nice" guy is godly, chivalrous, has inner strength in the Lord, has an attitude of no compromise when it comes to biblical principles, not only for others but for himself, is a giver not a taker, is full of grace for other's faults but strong in his convictions. He is educated or willing to be educated, and because he is teachable he is also humble.

Taken altogether, there's no way a guy like that could EVER be boring. And he would be EXTREMELY attractive to me.

besiderself



humbleinspirit -> RE: Nice Guys Finish Last at Least So They Say (6/25/2008 11:48:40 PM)

Basically the article was about how (unbelieving) women dig guys who treat them poorly, ie, jerks. and how nice guys they do not consider at all.



BugLady -> RE: Nice Guys Finish Last at Least So They Say (6/26/2008 12:18:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit

Basically the article was about how (unbelieving) women dig guys who treat them poorly, ie, jerks. and how nice guys they do not consider at all.


Well, that's twisted. [&:]



ShallbeRebuilt -> RE: Nice Guys Finish Last at Least So They Say (6/26/2008 12:20:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BugLady

quote:

ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit

Basically the article was about how (unbelieving) women dig guys who treat them poorly, ie, jerks. and how nice guys they do not consider at all.


Well, that's twisted. [&:]


It is. And in some instances it is true.

Since I can't say what's true for others, but only for me: just try to treat me bad. You'll find out I don't put up with it. God made me a marvelous person, doesn't intend for me to be treated like that by another Christian (the only type of guy I would ever date) and I won't have it. It'll be for the good of both of us when I toss you and your shoes out on the street.

besiderself



BugLady -> RE: Nice Guys Finish Last at Least So They Say (6/26/2008 12:33:08 AM)

You're right. I've no doubt in some instances it is true. That's exactly what makes it twisted. And I believe there's almost always a deeper heart issue at play when a woman tolerates intolerable behaviors from a man. But that gets complex........



humbleinspirit -> RE: Nice Guys Finish Last at Least So They Say (6/26/2008 12:41:28 AM)

I decided to dig up the article. Here it is: Why Nice Guys Finish Last.



ShallbeRebuilt -> RE: Nice Guys Finish Last at Least So They Say (6/26/2008 12:43:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BugLady

You're right. I've no doubt in some instances it is true. That's exactly what makes it twisted. And I believe there's almost always a deeper heart issue at play when a woman tolerates intolerable behaviors from a man. But that gets complex........


You're absolutely right. So complex that I doubt it can be dealt with in the context of an article off Yahoo, nor can it be applied quite so liberally as to be stated as a proven behavior for all men and women.

So to me that means that the article's position is unprovable. Therefore there's a good chance that "nice guys DO NOT finish last".[;)][;)][;)]

besiderself



okrox -> RE: Nice Guys Finish Last at Least So They Say (6/26/2008 1:16:22 AM)

IN WHICH I EXPLAIN TO YOU BOY PEOPLE ALL ABOUT GIRL PEOPLE, THE WHOLE SECRET BEHIND HOW THEY WORK, AND WHAT'S UP WITH THAT BAD-BOY THING:

Now, men, this is powerful, powerful knowledge. You must promise to use this for good and not evil. And I am telling you this at a great price. I am risking my membership in the girl's club by revealing this. Are you ready for it? Can you handle it? Sit down.

Women want to feel special.

That's it. That's the secret behind it all. We want to feel special. That's explains everything you guys don't get about us. It explains Tupperware and scrapbooking and eyeliner and gossip and Lifetime TV and just everything. We want to feel special.

As a woman matures, though, she learns to look for that "specialness" in appropriate ways. And as a Christian woman matures, she learns to recognize God's passionate love as something that makes her feel special.

But some women don't get that far in their maturing process, and get stuck in that stage where they are living for nothing but the drive to "Feel Special".

Which is where the bad boy thing comes in. Sometimes, the thinking--sub-conscious, of course-- is "I know this is a bad man. I'm the ONLY ONE who sees his goodness hidden deep inside. ONLY me. If I can make this BAD MAN be GOOD, just for ME, and nobody ELSE...even just every once in a while...then I must be real, real, real special, right?

I see this at work a hundred times a day. I am a correctional instructor in a state penitentiary. I see all these really, really bad men who have all, at one point or another in their lives, dragged some good woman down with them.

I also know about this first hand.

But I got over it. The doctor says we're much better, now.

And as for the Current Person Of Interest, whenever friends and family ask me about him, I ALWAYS seem to start with..."He's soooooooooo nice."

I told him recently, "Yeah, I am at the place in my life where I find integrity, character, maturity and kindness to be very, very hot."

(He seemed to like that.)

Anyway. There you have it, boys. That's all there is to it. Just make us feel special.

(See how simple it all is? I bet you're slapping your foreheads now, arent' you?)



OneOfHisJewels -> RE: Nice Guys Finish Last at Least So They Say (6/26/2008 1:35:33 AM)

I like nice guys. However, some guys think they are being nice when they are not. The guy that wanted to marry me when I was young was consdidered by that church a nice guy, but he put a lot of pressure on me (not to do anything physical, just for me to fit into his mold), and that isn't nice. No one could understand why I didn't care for him, but they didn't get how demanding he was of me. He just seemed like he didn't study me, and get to know me, or at least be friendly before asking me out. He went from 0 to 60 (again, not physically) way too fast. Plus he was trying so hard to do the "right thing," and involve my dad, that he carried it to where it was like he was really interested in my dad (don't worry he wasn't homosexual, that's not how I mean). So, each guy needs to ask himself if he is REALLY a nice guy or not.


And, Humble in Spirit, I'm not directing this at you, I'm sure you are nice. It is just a matter of principle I am speaking of.



WaitingforBoaz -> RE: Nice Guys Finish Last at Least So They Say (6/26/2008 2:03:17 AM)

I love Esther's definition of a nice guy. As a Christian, this is my definition also. When I was not walking with the Lord, that was not the case.

I have my own views on the whole nice guy thing;

An unbelieving woman is looking for a savior...someone who will protect her and be everything to her....a nice guy(worldly definition ie. wimpy) just does not fit the bill.
As a Christian we are no longer looking for a savior, so a nice guy (Christian definition) looks good to us because he embodies many of the characteristics of the savior. KWIM.



ShallbeRebuilt -> RE: Nice Guys Finish Last at Least So They Say (6/26/2008 7:41:01 AM)

Okrox and WFB:

THOSE are two AWESOME posts. You both said it MUCH better than I did.

Behold peeps: "take up and read"

besiderself



broyce1981 -> RE: Nice Guys Finish Last at Least So They Say (6/26/2008 8:15:10 AM)

Do nice guys finish last? I don't know, ask me when I finish! I really think the idea that nice guys finish last would be better worded as weak, wimpy guys finish last. It's not a question of whether a man is nice or mean, it's really getting at the difference between passive and assertive men.



ShallbeRebuilt -> RE: Nice Guys Finish Last at Least So They Say (6/26/2008 8:17:35 AM)

Thank you for defining this for us, Broyce. I knew it couldn't be about "nice".

besiderself



jlp1 -> RE: Nice Guys Finish Last at Least So They Say (6/26/2008 10:23:14 AM)

What is "nice" psssh.... most men are just that men and if you want to separated them go a head I won't. Men are basic creatures and simple you just have some who behave better than others....the ones who finish last are the ones who don't run fast enough or shall I say pursue the woman. "nice" men don't open their mouths, make a strong enough effort, are scared, etc... when it comes to what or who they want. I can distinguish between a man with a good and bad spirit and the ones with the good spirit "nice guy" they just look an won't say anything and have the time I say to myself only if he would ask he would actually have a chance but because for what ever reason he thinks, that's why he will finish last. But the one's with the bad spirit "bad guys" opens their mouths and run really fast to get what and who they want they pursue harder and faster. Now there are some nice guys who do finish first because I guess they have a little "bad boyism" in them.



Blazingson -> RE: Nice Guys Finish Last at Least So They Say (6/26/2008 10:43:47 AM)

In my experience, "nice-guys" do finish last. At least over all.

I like to sit back and watch the world pass, people going about their business, doing what people do day-in and day-out. One of the things I've noticed among believing and unbelieving women and girls, females as a whole, is that the only time they want a nice guy is after they've married the bad-boy.
Women, whether they are believers or not, have this perverse way about them of desiring the excitement, risk and danger of dating the bad-boy and then expecting him to magically transform into the nice-guy once they are married to each other. And they expect this to happen based solely on the strength of her love for him. And to top it off, they are actually hurt when he doesn't do this flip-plop instantly.
I can't number the times I've heard a divorced lady say, "I'll never understand why I married that jerk." Or something like it.

Sorry okrox, you'll never convince me it's about being treated special because these bad-boys don't treat their women any more special than they do a pair of worn out socks but they always have a following of females of all ages.



okrox -> RE: Nice Guys Finish Last at Least So They Say (6/26/2008 10:54:18 AM)

My point exactly, Eric. It's the fact that these guys DON'T treat them special, it's that hope that they are hanging on to, that one day they WILL, and then, they can say, OH BOY! I've CHANGED HIM! ME! I DID IT! It's exactly like you said. They want to think that THEIR LOVE changed him. And that would make them think they are real, real special.

And, to be fair, the popular romantic culture feeds this. Big-time.



Pauley464 -> RE: Nice Guys Finish Last at Least So They Say (6/26/2008 11:12:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blazingson

In my experience, "nice-guys" do finish last. At least over all.

I like to sit back and watch the world pass, people going about their business, doing what people do day-in and day-out. One of the things I've noticed among believing and unbelieving women and girls, females as a whole, is that the only time they want a nice guy is after they've married the bad-boy.
Women, whether they are believers or not, have this perverse way about them of desiring the excitement, risk and danger of dating the bad-boy and then expecting him to magically transform into the nice-guy once they are married to each other. And they expect this to happen based solely on the strength of her love for him. And to top it off, they are actually hurt when he doesn't do this flip-plop instantly.
I can't number the times I've heard a divorced lady say, "I'll never understand why I married that jerk." Or something like it.

Sorry okrox, you'll never convince me it's about being treated special because these bad-boys don't treat their women any more special than they do a pair of worn out socks but they always have a following of females of all ages.




Thank you Blazingson. I'm so glad to finally come across someone who has seen the same thing going on that I've seen happening.

For some reason, whenever people hear the term "nice-guy", the only things that come to mind of the vast majority of those people is: Boring, dull, passive, weak, spineless, wimpy, afraid, coward, yes-man, milquetoast, momma's boy, indecisive, etc.
These same people also equate violence, aggression, combativeness, arrogance, anger, conceit, rudeness, etc. with excitement, courage, strength, determination, confidence, decisiveness, outspokenness, etc.
They seem to be bored with the controlled strength of a genuine nice-guy
and excited by the uncontrolled arrogance and attitude of a bad-boy.

Until all people can be convinced that simply because a man is a Christian and behaves himself like a gentleman, that doesn't mean that he is dull, weak or a coward.



Blazingson -> RE: Nice Guys Finish Last at Least So They Say (6/26/2008 11:14:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: okrox

My point exactly, Eric. It's the fact that these guys DON'T treat them special, it's that hope that they are hanging on to, that one day they WILL, and then, they can say, OH BOY! I've CHANGED HIM! ME! I DID IT! It's exactly like you said. They want to think that THEIR LOVE changed him. And that would make them think they are real, real special.

And, to be fair, the popular romantic culture feeds this. Big-time.




Gotcha. After reading your post more carefully, I see that now.



Focusing -> RE: Nice Guys Finish Last at Least So They Say (6/26/2008 11:24:45 AM)

quote:

Gals: do you find nice men boring?

Not at all! I happen to like a man who is very nice. [:D]

He also has an intense love for the Lord, and sees His hand everywhere.

I will agree with Esther on what a "nice guy" is: a "nice" guy is godly, chivalrous, has inner strength in the Lord, has an attitude of no compromise when it comes to biblical principles, not only for others but for himself, is a giver not a taker, is full of grace for other's faults but strong in his convictions. He is educated or willing to be educated, and because he is teachable he is also humble.



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