Spanish court grants apes rights. (Full Version)

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HisFish -> Spanish court grants apes rights. (6/26/2008 12:03:13 AM)

http://www.reuters.com/article/scienceNews/idUSL256586320080625?feedType=RSS&feedName=scienceNews&rpc=22&sp=true
Next they'll get voting rights and health benifits. The world is losing it's mind faster than it can be reported on.



mapachito13 -> RE: Spanish court grants apes rights. (6/26/2008 12:12:31 AM)

You ain't kidding! [sm=crazy.gif][sm=hammerhead.gif][sm=error.gif][sm=icon_smile_faint.gif][sm=rollingeyes.gif][sm=silly.gif][sm=yummy.gif]

Even Don Quixote isn't THIS crazy!



colliefan -> RE: Spanish court grants apes rights. (6/26/2008 4:07:31 PM)

With individuals such as Darth Vader Ginsberg on the Court, we aren't too far behind.



ElmerFishpaw -> RE: Spanish court grants apes rights. (6/26/2008 4:12:28 PM)

....bout time! Apes have been getting the short end of the stick for ages.



Stronger2day -> RE: Spanish court grants apes rights. (6/26/2008 4:15:47 PM)

PETA is gonna love pushing similiar laws in the US-except they will extend to all animals. Say goodbye to your filet mignons...someday they may call it cannibalism, since we'd be eating our own 'kind'. Oh brother- I'm against cruelty to animals- but this goes to far.



djv1255 -> RE: Spanish court grants apes rights. (6/26/2008 4:23:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stronger2day

PETA is gonna love pushing similiar laws in the US-except they will extend to all animals. Say goodbye to your filet mignons...someday they may call it cannibalism, since we'd be eating our own 'kind'. Oh brother- I'm against cruelty to animals- but this goes to far.

As a member of PETP (people for the ethical treatment of plants), I am pushing for cabbage rights. Plants have feelings.
Be a carnivore. [:D]



SavedByGraceMD -> RE: Spanish court grants apes rights. (6/26/2008 5:01:28 PM)

Hey you know since we evolved from apes, we need to protect our ancestors.[;)]



HisFish -> RE: Spanish court grants apes rights. (6/26/2008 8:39:29 PM)

Will affirmative action cover them as far as employment and college placement?. Also they have a constituancy that will need representation in government.[&:]



everythingat -> RE: Spanish court grants apes rights. (6/26/2008 9:34:49 PM)

It seems that if the words "evolutionary comrades" weren't used, this topic wouldn't be much of a joke. These "rights" they're extending aren't really such a bad idea...improving zoos, not allowed to be used for harmful experiments...yeah, doesn't sound that bad.

quote:


The new resolutions have cross-party or majority support and are expected to become law and the government is now committed to update the statute book within a year to outlaw harmful experiments on apes in Spain.

"We have no knowledge of great apes being used in experiments in Spain, but there is currently no law preventing that from happening," Pozas said.

Keeping apes for circuses, television commercials or filming will also be forbidden and breaking the new laws will become an offence under Spain's penal code.

Keeping an estimated 315 apes in Spanish zoos will not be illegal, but supporters of the bill say conditions will need to improve drastically in 70 percent of establishments to comply with the new law.



Stronger2day -> RE: Spanish court grants apes rights. (6/26/2008 9:42:51 PM)

These are the words that scare me:

"...our closest genetic relatives deserve rights hitherto limited to humans."



HisFish -> RE: Spanish court grants apes rights. (6/26/2008 10:14:49 PM)

quote:

It seems that if the words "evolutionary comrades" weren't used, this topic wouldn't be much of a joke. These "rights" they're extending aren't really such a bad idea...improving zoos, not allowed to be used for harmful experiments...yeah, doesn't sound that bad.

Assuming that this is the extent of their agenda. something tells me this is just one brick that a wall will be built upon.



djv1255 -> RE: Spanish court grants apes rights. (6/26/2008 11:20:19 PM)

The circus owners should say since the ape have the right to freedom we are going to release our apes into any forests/woods around the capitol.



Stronger2day -> RE: Spanish court grants apes rights. (6/27/2008 12:42:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: djv1255

The circus owners should say since the ape have the right to freedom we are going to release our apes into any forests/woods around the capitol.



If the apes continue to work do they qualify for FMLA?[:D]



mapachito13 -> RE: Spanish court grants apes rights. (6/27/2008 6:09:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stronger2day

These are the words that scare me:

"...our closest genetic relatives deserve rights hitherto limited to humans."


Call it animal protection or conservation but RIGHTS? Read the animal his rights officer! [:D][:@][:'(][:'(]



radiorobert -> RE: Spanish court grants apes rights. (6/27/2008 1:46:54 PM)

While this is somewhat humurous, it's also really sad. [&:]

The Lord weeps when he sees us falling this far down the pit.

We can kill our own babies that are still in the womb, but we now have to give 'rights' to non-humans. [:(]



mapachito13 -> RE: Spanish court grants apes rights. (6/27/2008 2:17:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: radiorobert

While this is somewhat humurous, it's also really sad. [&:]

The Lord weeps when he sees us falling this far down the pit.

We can kill our own babies that are still in the womb, but we now have to give 'rights' to non-humans. [:(]


Isn't it amazing that some people afford animals more "human rights" than they afford real humans?!



fiat_lux -> RE: Spanish court grants apes rights. (6/27/2008 6:48:26 PM)

quote:

Isn't it amazing that some people afford animals more "human rights" than they afford real humans?!

It's a small comfort, but I'm pretty sure Spain's abortion laws are among the most restrictive in Europe. More restrictive than those where I live, certainly.

According to the article linked to, this is Parliament, not a court, and it's a proposal only at this stage. And the "rights" in question are basically just a moderate extension of the prevention of what elsewhere is usually called cruelty to animals. I really don't see why this is worth losing sleep over.



Stronger2day -> RE: Spanish court grants apes rights. (6/27/2008 8:52:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fiat_lux

quote:

Isn't it amazing that some people afford animals more "human rights" than they afford real humans?!

It's a small comfort, but I'm pretty sure Spain's abortion laws are among the most restrictive in Europe. More restrictive than those where I live, certainly.

According to the article linked to, this is Parliament, not a court, and it's a proposal only at this stage. And the "rights" in question are basically just a moderate extension of the prevention of what elsewhere is usually called cruelty to animals. I really don't see why this is worth losing sleep over.



You're right this is not, nor is anything, worth loosing sleep over, but I do believe the observation made by HISFISH is right on:

"Assuming that this is the extent of their agenda. something tells me this is just one brick that a wall will be built upon."

We will hear more of this in the future, and it will be more than preventing animal cruelty. By evaluating the specific terminology used to explain their position, one can easily see that the gates have been opened to push the issue further in the future.



colliefan -> RE: Spanish court grants apes rights. (6/27/2008 9:12:21 PM)

quote:


Will affirmative action cover them as far as employment and college placement?. Also they have a constituancy that will need representation in government.


and the dems will demand one-stop voting at the zoo



Stronger2day -> RE: Spanish court grants apes rights. (6/27/2008 9:25:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan

quote:


Will affirmative action cover them as far as employment and college placement?. Also they have a constituancy that will need representation in government.


and the dems will demand one-stop voting at the zoo



[:D] [:D] [:D] hee hee hee...there went my soda out my nose again! JK.



solo_soprano22 -> RE: Spanish court grants apes rights. (6/27/2008 9:35:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD

Hey you know since we evolved from apes, we need to protect our ancestors.[;)]


Lol.



fiat_lux -> RE: Spanish court grants apes rights. (6/28/2008 12:33:09 AM)

quote:

We will hear more of this in the future, and it will be more than preventing animal cruelty. By evaluating the specific terminology used to explain their position, one can easily see that the gates have been opened to push the issue further in the future.

If I may ask, what do you believe the consequences in the future might be?



Stronger2day -> RE: Spanish court grants apes rights. (6/28/2008 1:53:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fiat_lux

quote:

We will hear more of this in the future, and it will be more than preventing animal cruelty. By evaluating the specific terminology used to explain their position, one can easily see that the gates have been opened to push the issue further in the future.

If I may ask, what do you believe the consequences in the future might be?



OK, allow me to locate my thinking cap….and some coffee. If I were to theorize a possible route….

First, get the majority of the population agreeing to protect animals under the guise of eliminating animal cruelty when in fact the language may suggest intent to press evolutionary theory. Once that ‘comfort’ has been obtained, now we give more protection over time some of the primates. The ‘rights’ may first be afforded with those sharing 95% DNA similarities, next monkeys up to 88%. We may then argue that rodents shouldn’t be excluded (while only 25% or so shared DNA). Now let’s apply rights, not based on DNA groupings, but to all animals- because we are ALL just animals-right? We are eventually, even if over a significant period of time, in a place where animals are extended comparable rights to humans. In short can’t eat them and don’t think about accidentally running over one. Again, PETA would LOVE to start pushing this thinking through. Take a look at what they are pushing through in some of the (US) states now. It looks innocent, but I do feel there will be more to come from this.

Had the language of the proposed law excluded:
"...our closest genetic relatives deserve rights hitherto limited to humans”, and
"This is a historic day in the struggle for animal rights and in defense of our evolutionary comrades”
I would be much less skeptical.

Also, I feel that this language represents a thumbing of noses to our Savior with evolutionary references.

While I admit my ‘draft theory’ may be significantly flawed, I am demonstrating a route by which the envelope could be pushed. One may use the homosexual marriage as an example. It took one ‘brick’ at a time, but somehow that ‘wall’ has been built (using previous poster’s verbiage). The ‘majority’ doesn’t agree, yet somehow our lovely US courts have opined it though. Combine US courts and unscrutinizing citizens and anything is possible.



1love1God1way -> RE: Spanish court grants apes rights. (6/28/2008 11:43:01 AM)

The problem is not the raising of an animal to the level of humans. . .

It's the lower of the importance of humans, and what separates us.

We are slowly becoming no different, no more important, than an mere animal.



colliefan -> RE: Spanish court grants apes rights. (6/28/2008 12:38:20 PM)

quote:


Combine US courts and unscrutinizing citizens and anything is possible


We have SC justices who admit they make their decisions on the laws of other countries rather than jurisprudence. Read Mark Levin's Men in Black for a good discussion on bad case law.



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