RE: Victimizing Child Rape victims on the stand (Full Version)

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Starbucks880 -> RE: Victimizing Child Rape victims on the stand (6/30/2008 3:23:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: allisonbrett

Did anyone else hear about this?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,371344,00.html

I can't even imagine what in the world this guy is thinking. He should be removed from office and investigated by the Massachesetts Bar Assoc for ethics violations.

I honestly hope I misunderstood this guy. If not I'm shocked by his comments!

This is hardly something new. Defense attorneys routinely do this to any rape victim, child or adult. I am not sure why this is shocking. Why do you think that rape is such an underreported crime? This is one of those reasons. I went through this not long after I moved to this country. It was enough stress getting used to a new country and trying to learn a language I had only a basic understanding of, but going for a trial--at the advice of some friends I had made--I was not prepared for how brutal experience it is. It is not right, no matter who they do this to, but those are the tactis Defense attorneys use.

And to those trying to make this seem like a liberal thing to defend the attorney's tactics--this is hardly about political ideology. I have seen plenty of conservatives who have no regard for victims of this crime, not to mention I know more than a few Defense attorneys who are conservative who take these cases and aren't any better than this guy in trial, so this is definitely not a liberal thing. I consider myself liberal and I would never say it was right, even if I had never been through it.



rlj -> RE: Victimizing Child Rape victims on the stand (6/30/2008 4:53:21 PM)

People have laughed at what I am going to say and they have ridiculed me for requoting it but I'll quote John Adams again:

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

I don't believe they considered that one day we would be continuously having to put little children on the witness stands for cases like this.



19ramman85 -> RE: Victimizing Child Rape victims on the stand (6/30/2008 8:39:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rlj

People have laughed at what I am going to say and they have ridiculed me for requoting it but I'll quote John Adams again:

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.




OK- off topic abit- but .........

Then please explain this ...................

Unlike most governments of the past, the American Founding Fathers set up a government divorced from any religion. Their establishment of a secular government did not require a reflection to themselves of its origin; they knew this as a ubiquitous unspoken given. However, as the United States delved into international affairs, few foreign nations knew about the intentions of the U.S. For this reason, an insight from at a little known but legal document written in the late 1700s explicitly reveals the secular nature of the U.S. goverenment to a foreign nation. Officially called the "Treaty of peace and friendship between the United States of America and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli, of Barbary," most refer to it as simply the Treaty of Tripoli. In Article 11, it states:

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

Little forgotten notation, circa 1796

There are other places where this is referanced also, this was just the one I picked.


Now- back to our regularly scheduled topic!


-charles



rlj -> RE: Victimizing Child Rape victims on the stand (6/30/2008 9:48:39 PM)

The statement I quoted doesn't specify "christian" nor have I ever used it or even seen it used to justify this being a "christian" nation. It says firstly moral then secondly religious which can encompass any faith. I am not aware of any faith that doesn't openly condemn the rape of a little child- christian, Jew, Mormon, Hindu, Buddhist, none that I am aware of. Whether one likes to admit it or not it was religion (or religions) that help define morality as it was written in the Constitution.

To see this in action look at the Constitution where it states that the defendant should be allowed to confront their accuser which others are saying means that any child no matter how small who has been raped must be put on the stand. Did the framers intend that? We don't know. The law seems a little harsh but it is the law. It is a scenario that happens often yet wouldn't be common in a nation of people guided by morals and if the people of that nation followed the principals of their religion in doing so.

The statement in the treaty is actually pretty simple. The religious beliefs or morals of the people weren't going to interfere with the treaty that the two nations signed. I am guessing that the area was a Muslim area at the time of the signing and this clause was put in so that everyone would know that the people couldn't go back on it based on their faith.



turtleman -> RE: Victimizing Child Rape victims on the stand (6/30/2008 9:54:12 PM)

Defense attorneys have been using these tactics for a long time. However, this does not make it right. It is time this country went back to putting the victim first. The best penalty I can think of for a lawyer that would try to destroy a victim of child rape to free his client is, to serve the victims family. By serve I mean as a servant doing any dirty job they could think of. Also they could lend him out to the neighbors. This would continue for at least seven years.



Sophie11 -> RE: Victimizing Child Rape victims on the stand (6/30/2008 10:02:07 PM)

I'm going to have to agree with rlj on this one. That quote makes perfect sense to me. It certainly doesn't imply that the US was founded on Christian beliefs, but it is more to do with the type of people that our constitution can govern effectively.

All it is saying IMO is that our form of government works well when the majority of the citizens are moral and good, and does not work well if they are corrupt and desire to do harm to this country. To me this quote is quite logical, and seems to be proving itself correct based on the history of this nation.



19ramman85 -> RE: Victimizing Child Rape victims on the stand (7/2/2008 8:46:26 AM)

rlj/sophie 11;

Aren't ya glad I said it was off-topic a bit? Because it really could be its own topic!

The only reason I posted it ... was to point out- how misguided some Christians are in believeing that this Country is based on only- OUR beliefs. When in fact- it is quite the reverse!


-charles



rlj -> RE: Victimizing Child Rape victims on the stand (7/2/2008 4:02:37 PM)

quote:

Aren't ya glad I said it was off-topic a bit? Because it really could be its own topic!

The only reason I posted it ... was to point out- how misguided some Christians are in believeing that this Country is based on only- OUR beliefs. When in fact- it is quite the reverse!


Hehe. ; ) I guess I should stop to then. :D



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