Victimizing Child Rape victims on the stand (Full Version)

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allisonbrett -> Victimizing Child Rape victims on the stand (6/26/2008 11:14:39 AM)

Did anyone else hear about this?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,371344,00.html

I can't even imagine what in the world this guy is thinking. He should be removed from office and investigated by the Massachesetts Bar Assoc for ethics violations.

I honestly hope I misunderstood this guy. If not I'm shocked by his comments!



GregandJenny -> RE: Victimizing Child Rape victims on the stand (6/26/2008 12:17:03 PM)

I think maybe he was horribly playing devils advocate. After listening to the recording it seemed like he was trying to say that if there are mandatory sentences then a defense lawyer, is going to rip apart the victim so that their client can be found innocent.

I don't like his antics, and I think that He is needing to remember now he is in the Legislature and not a defense lawyer.


G



Leon_Figg3 -> RE: Victimizing Child Rape victims on the stand (6/27/2008 10:32:10 AM)

I believe that the man was speaking from experience and giving an accurate discribtion of what the duties of a defense attorney are. He was, unfortuneately also, giving a fairly accurate describtion of what our courts have become, in that accused and their advocates have greater rights, and latitude than do the victims.

It would be interesting to hear what this man believes the rights of the victim should be.

No matter what, a child who has been the victim of rape should not have to endure the antics of a defense lawyer that this man has described. That is pushing the rights of the accused way beyond the limits.

IMO any defense lawyer that would engage in such antics, in such cases, should be disbarred. These antics are not only cruel and inhumane to the victim, they are the easy way out for the lawyer. If the lawyer is any good he should be able to tear apart the prosecution's case, with equal zeal, in any other area. It is the prosecution's case that he should be aiming at, and tearing apart, not the victim.



ljmac -> RE: Victimizing Child Rape victims on the stand (6/27/2008 11:58:10 AM)

"I'm gonna rip them apart," ****an said of young victims during his testimony on the bill. "I'm going to make sure that the rest of their life is ruined, that when they’re 8 years old, they throw up; when they’re 12 years old, they won’t sleep; when they’re 19 years old, they’ll have nightmares and they’ll never have a relationship with anybody.”

Is anyone surprised that this came from a Democrat. They're far more passionate about protection the accused than the victim.



rcjames -> RE: Victimizing Child Rape victims on the stand (6/27/2008 12:12:27 PM)

Rep. James ****an needs to come on down to the hill country of Oklahoma for a dose of back road sensitivity training.

Any defense of his tirade and attitude is at least misplaced if not outright psychotic.

Thanks
RC



tafkam -> RE: Victimizing Child Rape victims on the stand (6/27/2008 12:29:32 PM)

As a father of three, I'd like to have about five minutes alone with this guy.

And yes, I am advocating an act of violence....just in case anyone was wondering....[;)]

(Edited in the name of good taste....)



CherishedbyGod -> RE: Victimizing Child Rape victims on the stand (6/27/2008 1:35:10 PM)

Absolutely, totally, disgusting[:@][:@][:@]

As an abuse victim myself (not the same type), you best keep me away from such people like that and their demonic tactics...........I'd probably go for the jugular...



PaleHawkWoman -> RE: Victimizing Child Rape victims on the stand (6/27/2008 4:19:36 PM)

I'm not a conservative, actually more moderate leaning left-of-center on some issues and right-of-center on others. I DO NOT condone this man's words/actions/attitudes in any way. I believe that the identity ofthe child should be protected at all times, including in court. I also believe that children should be able to testify via deposition or in-court tv rather than have to be present in the court room with their accused rapists. Said recorded or televised deposition would probably inhibit the tendency to "put on a show" by attorneys who think they can do so to either discredit a witness or snow the jury. I also believe that there should be very strong protocols in place to keep defense attorneys from engaging in such horrendous abuse of a witness on the stand.

Children are not adults and should not be treated like an adult witness (and I'm against adults being treated with such vicious practice as well). It is my experience that an attorney can be civil and competent whether practicing for the prosecution or the defense, and the judge should enforce civility in his/her court room.

As for child rapists/molesters, I DO support a death penalty or at the very least life without parole so that these monsters are never able to molest or rape another child.



rcjames -> RE: Victimizing Child Rape victims on the stand (6/27/2008 7:05:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman

I'm not a conservative, actually more moderate leaning left-of-center on some issues and right-of-center on others. I DO NOT condone this man's words/actions/attitudes in any way. I believe that the identity ofthe child should be protected at all times, including in court. I also believe that children should be able to testify via deposition or in-court tv rather than have to be present in the court room with their accused rapists. Said recorded or televised deposition would probably inhibit the tendency to "put on a show" by attorneys who think they can do so to either discredit a witness or snow the jury. I also believe that there should be very strong protocols in place to keep defense attorneys from engaging in such horrendous abuse of a witness on the stand.

Children are not adults and should not be treated like an adult witness (and I'm against adults being treated with such vicious practice as well). It is my experience that an attorney can be civil and competent whether practicing for the prosecution or the defense, and the judge should enforce civility in his/her court room.

As for child rapists/molesters, I DO support a death penalty or at the very least life without parole so that these monsters are never able to molest or rape another child.


I agree that this should not be a conservative vs. liberal thing.

I might even agree that the death penallty may not be right as it is too quick. I sort of like what your ancestors did; tie the guilty one down, pour honey on them and let the ants and buzzards eat them.

Thsnks
RC



CherishedbyGod -> RE: Victimizing Child Rape victims on the stand (6/27/2008 8:14:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tafkam

C'mon, my leftist friends......leap to this guy's defense....you know you want to!


This sentence saddens me....



tafkam -> RE: Victimizing Child Rape victims on the stand (6/27/2008 8:19:10 PM)

Why? Because I said it, or because there are those that undoubtedly will look for any and every reason to excuse the man?

But it is somewhat inflammatory....maybe I'll delete it....



CherishedbyGod -> RE: Victimizing Child Rape victims on the stand (6/27/2008 8:57:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tafkam

Why? Because I said it, or because there are those that undoubtedly will look for any and every reason to excuse the man?

But it is somewhat inflammatory....maybe I'll delete it....


I don't even know you, so it certainly is not because you said it[;)]

I am certain you will do what is right...



rlj -> RE: Victimizing Child Rape victims on the stand (6/27/2008 9:02:37 PM)

A friend of mine once taught me that you can be completely right about something but make yourself completely wrong by how you go about presenting your case. While what he said was correct and there will be a time of putting these children on the stands depending on laws and how they may change I still wouldn't mind either A)Standing lookout for Tafkam just to make sure he gets his 5 minutes alone or B)Assisting RC with holding the guy down while he shows me the proper way to tie someone up before they get doused in honey. The best part of him will be listening to the "When am I gonna die?"*

*That was a reference to a SNL when Dana Carvey was impersonating Ross Perot.



iluvatar -> RE: Victimizing Child Rape victims on the stand (6/27/2008 10:42:17 PM)

It's not immediately apparent just reading the headlines, but I think once you listen to the exact words that he said ("I, as a defense attorney, would blah blah blah") and his role in this debate (he's a politician), it becomes clear that he's more or less playing the devil's advocate, not actually suggesting that these children should be treated like this.

-Dan.



rlj -> RE: Victimizing Child Rape victims on the stand (6/27/2008 11:40:37 PM)

quote:

It's not immediately apparent just reading the headlines, but I think once you listen to the exact words that he said ("I, as a defense attorney, would blah blah blah") and his role in this debate (he's a politician), it becomes clear that he's more or less playing the devil's advocate, not actually suggesting that these children should be treated like this.


For me it isn't what he said as much as it is how he said it.



solo_soprano22 -> RE: Victimizing Child Rape victims on the stand (6/28/2008 12:20:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ljmac

"I'm gonna rip them apart," ****an said of young victims during his testimony on the bill. "I'm going to make sure that the rest of their life is ruined, that when they’re 8 years old, they throw up; when they’re 12 years old, they won’t sleep; when they’re 19 years old, they’ll have nightmares and they’ll never have a relationship with anybody.”



[sm=icon_smile_yikes.gif]



Annie64 -> RE: Victimizing Child Rape victims on the stand (6/29/2008 5:41:52 AM)

If he was saying that this was what would happen to child victims in court if mandatory minimum sentences were imposed, then that is a terrible indictment of our court system. The 5-year-old daughter of a friend of mine was molested by her cousin. The prosecution had the little girl testify via pre-recording, and the defense got the whole case thrown out because of the defendant's constitutional right to "face his accuser." So my friend had a choice: have her child's abuser go free, or have her face traumatization again in court, should the defense attorney been anything like what this guy was describing. A lose-lose situation. [&o]



PaleHawkWoman -> RE: Victimizing Child Rape victims on the stand (6/29/2008 10:31:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman

I'm not a conservative, actually more moderate leaning left-of-center on some issues and right-of-center on others. I DO NOT condone this man's words/actions/attitudes in any way. I believe that the identity ofthe child should be protected at all times, including in court. I also believe that children should be able to testify via deposition or in-court tv rather than have to be present in the court room with their accused rapists. Said recorded or televised deposition would probably inhibit the tendency to "put on a show" by attorneys who think they can do so to either discredit a witness or snow the jury. I also believe that there should be very strong protocols in place to keep defense attorneys from engaging in such horrendous abuse of a witness on the stand.

Children are not adults and should not be treated like an adult witness (and I'm against adults being treated with such vicious practice as well). It is my experience that an attorney can be civil and competent whether practicing for the prosecution or the defense, and the judge should enforce civility in his/her court room.

As for child rapists/molesters, I DO support a death penalty or at the very least life without parole so that these monsters are never able to molest or rape another child.


I agree that this should not be a conservative vs. liberal thing.

I might even agree that the death penallty may not be right as it is too quick. I sort of like what your ancestors did; tie the guilty one down, pour honey on them and let the ants and buzzards eat them.

Thsnks
RC


Actually my ancestors turned the rapist over to the women of the victim's family, who then castrated the perp and cut him to pieces bit by bit. If he was fortunate, they were kind enough to kill him within a few hours. Otherwise he would be tortured thru the night and finally put to death before sunrise. His dismembered body would be burned and the ashes scattered so that his flesh did not foul the earth.



PaleHawkWoman -> RE: Victimizing Child Rape victims on the stand (6/29/2008 11:00:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Annie64

If he was saying that this was what would happen to child victims in court if mandatory minimum sentences were imposed, then that is a terrible indictment of our court system. The 5-year-old daughter of a friend of mine was molested by her cousin. The prosecution had the little girl testify via pre-recording, and the defense got the whole case thrown out because of the defendant's constitutional right to "face his accuser." So my friend had a choice: have her child's abuser go free, or have her face traumatization again in court, should the defense attorney been anything like what this guy was describing. A lose-lose situation. [&o]


There was a case in Redding California about 20 yrs ago where a man molested a young boy. The perp had a long record of child molesting charges and convictions but always got out because he "passed" behavioral modification therapy in the prison system. When the child had to testify, the perp made lewd gestures and facial expressions at the child, reducing him to tears. The perp had also been making gestures at the child's family.

When the court next met in session, the mother of the child walked up to the perp. The report said that he looked up at her with a smirk and was about to say something to her when she pulled out a hand gun and blew his brains out right there in the court room. She very calmly handed the pistol to the bailiff and put her hands out to be cuffed. The county DA refused to charge her, saying that she had been provoked. She was hailed as a hero by everyone except the state AG, who decided to charge her- saying that citizens did not have the right to engage in vigilante actions. People raised money for her defense fund. The Grand Jury refused to indict her, so she went free.

I'm not saying this was the right way to handle this, but I can certainly see why she did what she did. If someone had molested one of my children I would have hunted them down and killed them if the cops didn't get to them first. Likewise, I would probably beat the snot out of the defendent's attorney for any such vicious attack on my child as many of the defense attorneys are doing.

This is an issue in which it is very difficult if not impossible to act in a Christ-like manner. My own feelings as a mother would seek out vengence for my child, and would equate vengence with justice. And for anyone who thinks that a believer could not possibly engage in killing someone for molesting their child, think again. We have the capability to react to such a horrendous act against a child with some surprising brutality, and often have not the strength to override it when our emotions are so raw. It would be up to those in fellowship with the child's family to act as a stabilizing and healing influence for the family and the child.

It is up to the citizens to hold the legal system accountable for the behavior of attorneys in court, as well as holding judges accountable for how well they maintain their court room. Again, live-feed televised testimony by a rape victim should be the norm so that the victim is not traumatized repeatedly by the defendent while still allowing the defendent to "face" the victim in court.



Sophie11 -> RE: Victimizing Child Rape victims on the stand (6/30/2008 8:10:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman

It is up to the citizens to hold the legal system accountable for the behavior of attorneys in court, as well as holding judges accountable for how well they maintain their court room. Again, live-feed televised testimony by a rape victim should be the norm so that the victim is not traumatized repeatedly by the defendent while still allowing the defendent to "face" the victim in court.


I agree. And I think especially when it comes to a child, they should not have to be put through any more suffering than they are already going to endure for the rest of their life.



19ramman85 -> RE: Victimizing Child Rape victims on the stand (6/30/2008 8:21:26 AM)

Sounds like the Defense Attorney Lobbiests in that State have a - Wonderful friend!

Maybe this guy should be raped, and then see what he thinks!

quote:

I might even agree that the death penallty may not be right as it is too quick.


Too quick?

Most people on death row who have been there for years, if not - decades!

That's too quick?

Which is another reason why I am against the death penalty- because most death row imates are almost guarenteed to die while waiting for their death date.


-charles



Sophie11 -> RE: Victimizing Child Rape victims on the stand (6/30/2008 8:33:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 19ramman85

quote:

I might even agree that the death penallty may not be right as it is too quick.


Too quick?

Most people on death row who have been there for years, if not - decades!

That's too quick?

Which is another reason why I am against the death penalty- because most death row imates are almost guarenteed to die while waiting for their death date.


-charles


What?!? Then that means they would die as well on a life sentence! Does that mean all prisoners ought to be let free before they die in prison then? I don't understand the reasoning behind your argument!



19ramman85 -> RE: Victimizing Child Rape victims on the stand (6/30/2008 9:00:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sophie11

quote:

ORIGINAL: 19ramman85

quote:

I might even agree that the death penallty may not be right as it is too quick.


Too quick?

Most people on death row who have been there for years, if not - decades!

That's too quick?

Which is another reason why I am against the death penalty- because most death row imates are almost guarenteed to die while waiting for their death date.


-charles


What?!? Then that means they would die as well on a life sentence! Does that mean all prisoners ought to be let free before they die in prison then? I don't understand the reasoning behind your argument!



No, on the contrary Sophie11.

My one and only point here is; the death penalty serves no real deterant to crime, and since - MOST, death row inmates will end up doing natural life (i.e.- their release date is their date of death), then why in the heck even bother w/ the death penalty in the first place?


-charles



Sophie11 -> RE: Victimizing Child Rape victims on the stand (6/30/2008 9:28:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 19ramman85

My one and only point here is; the death penalty serves no real deterant to crime, and since - MOST, death row inmates will end up doing natural life (i.e.- their release date is their date of death), then why in the heck even bother w/ the death penalty in the first place?


Well a life sentence serves no more a deterrent either. And neither does a sentence of 5, 10 or 20 years. It seems that if a criminal really wants to commit a crime nothing will deter them.

If the courts would start giving out some substantial punishments for these outrageous violent crimes then maybe there wouldn't be so many folks wanting the death penalty. I kind of tend to think seeing a murderer or rapist getting only a few years in prison is what gets everyone so upset in the first place.

Would you be in favor of mandatory life sentences for violent crimes such as these?



rcjames -> RE: Victimizing Child Rape victims on the stand (6/30/2008 10:28:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman
Actually my ancestors turned the rapist over to the women of the victim's family, who then castrated the perp and cut him to pieces bit by bit. If he was fortunate, they were kind enough to kill him within a few hours. Otherwise he would be tortured thru the night and finally put to death before sunrise. His dismembered body would be burned and the ashes scattered so that his flesh did not foul the earth.


Hey, that will work also.

Thanks
RC



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