RE: Trinity, rapture and other unscriptural terminology.
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RE: Trinity, rapture and other unscriptural terminology. - 7/7/2008 5:39:32 PM
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notmycity
Posts: 1237
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
We know that it was unleavened bread and the “fruit of the vine”, we also know the disciples
broke bread at least once per week (Acts 20:7).
So then, are you saying that communion should only be taken during the Passover seder, as part of a seder celebration?
We also know that they used unleavened bread only during the passover and the following week i.e. the feast of unleavened bread. So either they used leavened bread for communion each week when the broke bread, or they only had communion once a year. That is if we are to assume that these scriptures tell us every little detail about communion.
Look up leaven in Scripture and then see if it’s supposed to represent the Lord’s sinless body.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Trinity, rapture and other unscriptural terminology. - 7/7/2008 6:46:17 PM
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BerianAardvark
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That is a description of what occurred, NOT instructions as to how WE are to do it.
Tim
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RE: Trinity, rapture and other unscriptural terminology. - 7/7/2008 6:51:00 PM
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notmycity
Posts: 1237
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BerianAardvark
That is a description of what occurred, NOT instructions as to how WE are to do it.
Tim
So you’re saying that below is not instruction/command, (ie- “this do...”)?
Luke 22:19
19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Trinity, rapture and other unscriptural terminology. - 7/7/2008 6:51:52 PM
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earthless
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notmycity - what denomination/type of church do you attend? Just wondering.
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RE: Trinity, rapture and other unscriptural terminology. - 7/7/2008 7:07:31 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 2130
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: notmycity
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
We know that it was unleavened bread and the “fruit of the vine”, we also know the disciples
broke bread at least once per week (Acts 20:7).
So then, are you saying that communion should only be taken during the Passover seder, as part of a seder celebration?
We also know that they used unleavened bread only during the passover and the following week i.e. the feast of unleavened bread. So either they used leavened bread for communion each week when the broke bread, or they only had communion once a year. That is if we are to assume that these scriptures tell us every little detail about communion.
Look up leaven in Scripture and then see if it’s supposed to represent the Lord’s sinless body.
"The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, to the whole was leavened." Mt. 13:33 KJV
I guess that means you believe that took communion every week with leavened bread, right?
Now, why did they use unleavened bread for the first communion?
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RE: Trinity, rapture and other unscriptural terminology. - 7/7/2008 7:13:52 PM
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notmycity
Posts: 1237
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
ORIGINAL: notmycity
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
We know that it was unleavened bread and the “fruit of the vine”, we also know the disciples
broke bread at least once per week (Acts 20:7).
So then, are you saying that communion should only be taken during the Passover seder, as part of a seder celebration?
We also know that they used unleavened bread only during the passover and the following week i.e. the feast of unleavened bread. So either they used leavened bread for communion each week when the broke bread, or they only had communion once a year. That is if we are to assume that these scriptures tell us every little detail about communion.
Look up leaven in Scripture and then see if it’s supposed to represent the Lord’s sinless body.
"The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, to the whole was leavened." Mt. 13:33 KJV
I guess that means you believe that took communion every week with leavened bread, right?
Now, why did they use unleavened bread for the first communion?
Please let me know if you want to start a thread on this topic and I'll answer you there.
Thank you.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Trinity, rapture and other unscriptural terminology. - 7/7/2008 7:16:26 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 2130
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
notmycity - what denomination/type of church do you attend? Just wondering.
So far, he has been very evasive in clearly stating anything he believes.
He has told us that the churches view of the Trinity is unbiblical, and then uses the following verses to state his belief. He will not, however, state what he believes is wrong with the Christian view of the Trinity. Interestingly enough the 1 John passage (from the KJV) was likely corrupted by those who were trying to add scriptural support for the Trinity; it reads quite a bit differently in every other translation of the bible.
I Jn 5:7
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Deut 6:4
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
He states that ever detail of how communion should be practiced is given in scripture, but then he evades every question when asked about how he believes the communion should be practiced.
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RE: Trinity, rapture and other unscriptural terminology. - 7/7/2008 7:41:55 PM
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earthless
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Well, it is an honest question to be asked of anyone that so actively participates in these threads. I do hope it is answered.
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RE: Trinity, rapture and other unscriptural terminology. - 7/8/2008 1:00:15 AM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
So you’re saying that below is not instruction/command, (ie- “this do...”)?
That verse is certainly contains a command. You'll notice, however, Christ nowhere says "each week," "on this day," "every 168 hours," or anything of that nature.
_____________________________
Reason is the natural order of truth; but imagination is the organ of meaning.
-C. S. Lewis
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RE: Trinity, rapture and other unscriptural terminology. - 7/8/2008 9:49:31 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 5848
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
notmycity - what denomination/type of church do you attend? Just wondering.
So far, he has been very evasive in clearly stating anything he believes.
He has told us that the churches view of the Trinity is unbiblical, and then uses the following verses to state his belief. He will not, however, state what he believes is wrong with the Christian view of the Trinity. Interestingly enough the 1 John passage (from the KJV) was likely corrupted by those who were trying to add scriptural support for the Trinity; it reads quite a bit differently in every other translation of the bible.
I Jn 5:7
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Deut 6:4
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
He states that ever detail of how communion should be practiced is given in scripture, but then he evades every question when asked about how he believes the communion should be practiced.
I'm glad to see that someone else has noticed the same evasiveness. One wouldn't expect a teacher of any caliber to sidestep direct questions, especially ones so basic to the faith...
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RE: Trinity, rapture and other unscriptural terminology. - 7/8/2008 11:28:11 AM
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notmycity
Posts: 1237
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
So you’re saying that below is not instruction/command, (ie- “this do...”)?
That verse is certainly contains a command. You'll notice, however, Christ nowhere says "each week," "on this day," "every 168 hours," or anything of that nature.
This is true. Regarding “frequency” we have this account:
1 Cor 11:23-26
23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Trinity, rapture and other unscriptural terminology. - 7/8/2008 11:49:09 AM
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earthless
Posts: 5401
Joined: 4/11/2005
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Welcome back notmycity - can you please answer my question?
What denomination/type of church do you attend? Thank you.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Trinity, rapture and other unscriptural terminology. - 7/8/2008 11:56:17 AM
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DaveW
Posts: 3833
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
We also know that they used unleavened bread only during the passover and the following week i.e. the feast of unleavened bread. Where do you get that? Have you never heard the first of the four questions from the passover seder?
Why is it that on all other nights during the year we eat either bread or matzah (unleavened bread), but on this night we eat only matzah?
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Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
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RE: Trinity, rapture and other unscriptural terminology. - 7/8/2008 12:03:00 PM
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DaveW
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quote:
Deut 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: If notmycity is modalist/oneness, this is the WRONG verse to back up that error.
God is refered to 3 times, and the word "one" echad as used by Moses is a compound unity, also appearing in Gen 2.24 "...they shall be one flesh," refering to husband and wife.
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Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Trinity, rapture and other unscriptural terminology. - 7/8/2008 12:04:42 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 2130
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
We also know that they used unleavened bread only during the passover and the following week i.e. the feast of unleavened bread. Where do you get that? Have you never heard the first of the four questions from the passover seder?
Why is it that on all other nights during the year we eat either bread or matzah (unleavened bread), but on this night we eat only matzah?
Good point!
'Ma nishtanah halaylah hazeh mikol halaylot?"
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RE: Trinity, rapture and other unscriptural terminology. - 7/8/2008 12:05:49 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 2130
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: notmycity
quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
So you’re saying that below is not instruction/command, (ie- “this do...”)?
That verse is certainly contains a command. You'll notice, however, Christ nowhere says "each week," "on this day," "every 168 hours," or anything of that nature.
This is true. Regarding “frequency” we have this account:
1 Cor 11:23-26
23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
So how often did they eat "this bread" and drink "this cup"?
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RE: Trinity, rapture and other unscriptural terminology. - 7/8/2008 12:47:28 PM
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DaveW
Posts: 3833
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
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There is no biblical record of frequency. Tradition says once a week. This could have likely been based on the Kiddish (bread and wine) setting apart the weekly sabbath celebration.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Trinity, rapture and other unscriptural terminology. - 7/8/2008 12:51:34 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 5848
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Welcome back notmycity - can you please answer my question?
What denomination/type of church do you attend? Thank you.
Correct me if I'm wrong, NMC, but I think it's a one-family home church where he is, for lack of a better word, the leader.
If I'm wrong, he will likely consider my post "reviling." If I'm not wrong, he will likely consider my post "reviling."
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RE: Trinity, rapture and other unscriptural terminology. - 7/8/2008 12:54:06 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 2130
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
There is no biblical record of frequency. Tradition says once a week. This could have likely been based on the Kiddish (bread and wine) setting apart the weekly sabbath celebration.
I think everyone on this thread, except NMC, knows that.
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RE: Trinity, rapture and other unscriptural terminology. - 7/8/2008 1:10:29 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 959
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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quote:
This is true. Regarding “frequency” we have this account:
1 Cor 11:23-26
I see nothing in that account regarding frequency. It says "as often as ye eat and drink," not "as often as ye eat and drink (which, oh by the way, should be once a week)." That passage speaks on method, not frequency.
_____________________________
Reason is the natural order of truth; but imagination is the organ of meaning.
-C. S. Lewis
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RE: Trinity, rapture and other unscriptural terminology. - 7/8/2008 1:29:04 PM
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notmycity
Posts: 1237
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
This is true. Regarding “frequency” we have this account:
1 Cor 11:23-26
I see nothing in that account regarding frequency. It says "as often as ye eat and drink," not "as often as ye eat and drink (which, oh by the way, should be once a week)." That passage speaks on method, not frequency.
True. Did I say something different?
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Trinity, rapture and other unscriptural terminology. - 7/8/2008 2:22:13 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 2130
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: notmycity
quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
This is true. Regarding “frequency” we have this account:
1 Cor 11:23-26
I see nothing in that account regarding frequency. It says "as often as ye eat and drink," not "as often as ye eat and drink (which, oh by the way, should be once a week)." That passage speaks on method, not frequency.
True. Did I say something different?
Yes, actually you did!
BerianAardvark said:
"Does [scripture] explicitly give detailed instructions for what type of songs are acceptable for worship? No."
"Does [scripture] explicitly give detailed instructions as to how often and in what manner we are to take communion? No."
"Does [scripture] explicitly and without possibility for discussion or difference of opinion explain the rapture, when/if it will occur(pretribulation, mid-tribulation, or post tribulation), and in what manner? No."
And you replied:
"You are of course, entitled to your opinion.
I know of Scriptures that give specific instruction on all of the above.
Thank you."
And then since that point have evaded every question about the specifics i.e. about "how often and in what manner we are to take communion". And now you even deny ever raising the issue in the first place, what's up with that????
Your original post can be found here.
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RE: Trinity, rapture and other unscriptural terminology. - 7/8/2008 2:36:34 PM
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notmycity
Posts: 1237
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
ORIGINAL: notmycity
quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
This is true. Regarding “frequency” we have this account:
1 Cor 11:23-26
I see nothing in that account regarding frequency. It says "as often as ye eat and drink," not "as often as ye eat and drink (which, oh by the way, should be once a week)." That passage speaks on method, not frequency.
True. Did I say something different?
Yes, actually you did!
BerianAardvark said:
"Does [scripture] explicitly give detailed instructions for what type of songs are acceptable for worship? No."
"Does [scripture] explicitly give detailed instructions as to how often and in what manner we are to take communion? No."
"Does [scripture] explicitly and without possibility for discussion or difference of opinion explain the rapture, when/if it will occur(pretribulation, mid-tribulation, or post tribulation), and in what manner? No."
And you replied:
"You are of course, entitled to your opinion.
I know of Scriptures that give specific instruction on all of the above.
Thank you."
And then since that point have evaded every question about the specifics i.e. about "how often and in what manner we are to take communion". And now you even deny ever raising the issue in the first place, what's up with that????
Your original post can be found here.
I think you need to re-read my posts.
I didn’t want this to turn into a Lord’s Supper thread.
To reiterate and/or paraphrase what the Scriptures say:
The elements are unleavened bread and “the fruit of the vine”.
Regarding how often, again Scripture says, “For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.”
Thank you.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Trinity, rapture and other unscriptural terminology. - 7/8/2008 2:48:45 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5401
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are getting their sweaters ready....
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notmycity,
Man to man - adult to adult - please answer my question. I hope it's just been a case of not getting to it or having enough time presently. But it's a straight-forward and honest question, one no self-professing Christian should have any problem answering.
Thanks, I look forward to your reply. Please do know that purposely ignoring it speaks volumes to us engaging in this conversation and to all who read our posts.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Trinity, rapture and other unscriptural terminology. - 7/8/2008 4:23:53 PM
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notmycity
Posts: 1237
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
notmycity,
Man to man - adult to adult - please answer my question. I hope it's just been a case of not getting to it or having enough time presently. But it's a straight-forward and honest question, one no self-professing Christian should have any problem answering.
Thanks, I look forward to your reply. Please do know that purposely ignoring it speaks volumes to us engaging in this conversation and to all who read our posts.
Maybe I missed it. What's your question please?
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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