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KingJamesBond -> Second Amendment (6/28/2008 2:51:21 AM)

The Second Amendment.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." (Second Amendment to the Constitution.)

"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." (Richard Henry Lee, Virginia delegate to the Continental Congress, initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights.)

"The great object is that every man be armed . . . Everyone who is able may have a gun." (Patrick Henry, in the Virginia Convention on the ratification of the Constitution.)

"The advantage of being armed . . . the Americans possess over the people of all other nations . . . Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several Kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, author of the Bill of Rights, in his Federalist Paper No. 46.)

http://www.constitution.org/mil/rkba1982.htm

As far as I know, the Supreme Court recently ruled that certain gun laws imposed on individuals in D.C were unconstitutional.

Did we really need the Supreme Court to tell us that?

Rights were never intended to be thwarted by the government.

Rights are supposed to be protected and upheld by the government.

Dont our officials take oaths anymore saying they will protect and uphold the Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic?

The Mayor of DC seems to think more crime will now take place in DC because of the Supreme Court ruling.

He is opposed to the ruling and still seems to have a motive of doing anything he can to restrict individual gun ownership. What is up with that?

Is thwarting the Constitution related to treason? Not sure on that. It seems like it should be.

"City officials expressed confidence the city would prevail in any court challenge, asserting, among other things, that the 2nd Amendment as part of the Bill of Rights restricts the federal government and does not apply to state and local governments."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-supreme-court-gun-ban,0,3522044.story

Isnt the Mayor supposed to work to defend and uphold the Constitution and individual rights instead of working to take them away?

Take a look at this on Wikipedia;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States

Scroll down to the crime rate chart listed by State.

Notice that Washington DC has a higher crime rate than Virginia in regard to; Violent Crime, Homicide, Rape, Robbery, Assault, Property Crime, Burglary, Larceny, and Motor vehicle theft which is all crimes that are listed!

If I am reading the chart correctly.......it shows me that Washington DC is a high crime area when compared with Virginia.

How can that be with gun bans that were imposed for years?

I heard a comment that the crime problem in DC was to be blamed because people were bringing guns into DC from Virginia illegally since they border each other and Virginia has fewer and less restrictive gun laws.

How does that make any sense?

Lets see;

Less gun laws in Virginia, more legal guns in Virginia, and less crime in Virginia.

Strict gun bans in DC, more crime in DC, and blamed on a State that has fewer gun laws and less crime.

It does not make sense.

This is from an older article;

"Turns out, packing a pistol in public is perfectly legal in Virginia. And three times in the last month, including at Champps on Sunset Hills Road, residents have been spotted out and about in the county, with guns strapped to their hips, exercising that right."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50416-2004Jul14.html

Any comments?

KJB



OneJohn410 -> RE: Second Amendment (6/28/2008 3:42:56 AM)

Nice post. Too often the training received in how to use the firearm is from the TV set, or the TV game- and is basically point the barrel at what you want to hit and gently squeeze the trigger. Fathers, older brothers, mothers undaunted... just don't get around to talking to their kids/younger siblings until a little foot is accidentally shot (or worse).

The ability to put a hole in someone else can therefore be the immediate solution to little John Doe's problems. Then there's the practice of shooting at someone's house in a drive by attack that kills little Tiny Tim, the wonderful neighborhood kid who was always outside having fun playing. The firearm becomes the license of empowerment to get one's own way.

It will always be like this, that guns be used for sport in competition, or in hunting, or in defense, or in protection, or in criminal action. To whoever carries one on the hip also should carry the knowledge that he or she could be challenged to use it, and be held accountable for using it- that it's not just a decoration that is going to make the world much better or safer a place.

That may be all blah blah blah. The length of your researched OP requires more time to answer those specific questions presently.

OneJohn410



Birdiecat -> RE: Second Amendment (6/28/2008 8:13:53 AM)

After living for years in the "hood" I know the criminals WILL have guns no matter what the government says or does. I've seen it too many times. That doesn't give anyone the right to say I can't own a weapon to protect myself and my property. The founding fathers of this country gave me that right! I didn't need the "Supreme" court to tell me that. 5-4 vote was too close for comfort. If we're aren't careful they will pull all of our freedoms out from under our feet! I can't help what the creeps do but I HAVE the right to protect myself! Liberals want complete control of us and they ain't getting it! When going to the polls in November, be careful who you vote for! Obama would just love to take everything away from us!!



rnershigh -> RE: Second Amendment (6/28/2008 9:22:43 AM)

Interesting post.
I live in Virginia.
Yes, I've heard the arguments that DC's gun crimes were due to Virginia guns making it into the city...something like, if Virginia had gun ban like DC, there would be no problem with guns coming into the city.[8D]

Oh, one interesting thing.
Former DC police chief Ramsey had stated the gun ban worked and should be in place, he said this when he was still acting police chief.
When asked about this again when the gun ban went to Supreme Court, after he quit, he admitted the gun ban didn't do anything to deter crimes with guns and that it didn't work.
Funny how he did a complete change of heart once he no longer worked for DC government.
I bet there are a lot more people that think that in DC government, but they stay quiet.

Honestly, I've never understood why this gun ban was allowed and why the residents of DC put up with it for so long.
I suppose in a way I shouldn't be surprised, a lot of people don't know what the Constitution says and the workings of their government.[&o]



PhunkD -> RE: Second Amendment (6/28/2008 9:46:42 AM)

I understand that the second amendment gives us the right to bear arms--no disagreement there.

What I don't understand is why so many followers of the one who gave his life for enemies insist on having (and using) the means to kill theirs.



rnershigh -> RE: Second Amendment (6/28/2008 9:53:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PhunkD

I understand that the second amendment gives us the right to bear arms--no disagreement there.

What I don't understand is why so many followers of the one who gave his life for enemies insist on having (and using) the means to kill theirs.


Some people use it for hunting.
Other's for recreational shooting.
Going to the range to fire off some rounds is actually quite fun.



PhunkD -> RE: Second Amendment (6/28/2008 10:07:59 AM)

I am ok with all of those things, but the second amendment isn't about sports.

And a gun could be kept somewhere other than your home for these activities.



rnershigh -> RE: Second Amendment (6/28/2008 10:29:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PhunkD

I am ok with all of those things, but the second amendment isn't about sports.

And a gun could be kept somewhere other than your home for these activities.


I don't get what point you're trying to get across.
Maybe I'm dense.LOL.
Could you explain what point you're trying to make?



Sophie11 -> RE: Second Amendment (6/28/2008 10:35:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PhunkD

I understand that the second amendment gives us the right to bear arms--no disagreement there.

What I don't understand is why so many followers of the one who gave his life for enemies insist on having (and using) the means to kill theirs.


It's not always about having or wanting to kill others though. Many many times people have used their guns to deter a criminal from committing a crime against them or their family without ever firing a shot. Sometimes when you're dealing with a thug that is what it takes, for them to fear death and nothing short of that will stop them.



KingJamesBond -> RE: Second Amendment (6/28/2008 1:50:58 PM)

PhunkD,

quote:

I understand that the second amendment gives us the right to bear arms--no disagreement there.


Actually, the Second Amendment does not really give us anything. It is just a declaration.

If people want to retain or attain inalienable rights, they most often have to fight and work to keep them.

It is obvious that there are always people ready and willing to take rights away from people.

quote:

What I don't understand is why so many followers of the one who gave his life for enemies insist on having (and using) the means to kill theirs.


In Arizona we are still an open carry State.

At the age of 18 a person can carry a sidearm in the open, holstered.

In Arizona a person is required by the State to get a concealed carry permit if they are to carry a firearm concealed. They are required to be 21 years old. I do not agree with that requirement even though I went and got a CCW permit.

I dont see why we as a nation can send our men and women over to other countries to fight wars at the age of 18, and have them come home and restrict them in any way from defending themselves, their loved ones, and others in their State if need be.

It seems absurd that some of these men and women are sent over to fight, some come back maimed and wounded, and are not permitted to drink a cold beer, pull a slot handle, or carry a concealed firearm.

(And no, I dont condone drunkeness, gambling in excess, or murder.)

The Arizona Constitution says this;

Preamble;

We, the people of the State of Arizona, grateful to Almighty God for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution.

Article 2, Section 26. The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself or the state shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain, or employ an armed body of men.

I have lived here for many years and was brought up with firearms at an early age. To me it has always seemed normal to have firearms and know how to use them properly.

I guess I have a hard time understanding why firearms have seemed to always get a bad rap as if they are evil.

I am very pleased that I have never killed a human being. It is not something I would enjoy doing even if it was something that needed to be done.

Knowing that we live in a fallen evil world and not a good one I suppose it is only prudent and wise to have a means of protection.

David brought down a mighty giant with a sling and stone. However, he did mention that God would deliver him into his hands if I recall.

I would be totally sickened if some person or persons were ever to work evil on my wife, my daughters, or my sons, and I was totally helpless in protecting them.

I guess as a gaurdian I like to take the word gaurdian to mean what it says in the physical and spiritual sense. I suppose I am to do my best at gaurding my family.

Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

KJB



KingJamesBond -> RE: Second Amendment (6/28/2008 2:09:20 PM)

OneJohn410,

quote:

Nice post. Too often the training received in how to use the firearm is from the TV set, or the TV game- and is basically point the barrel at what you want to hit and gently squeeze the trigger. Fathers, older brothers, mothers undaunted... just don't get around to talking to their kids/younger siblings until a little foot is accidentally shot (or worse).

The ability to put a hole in someone else can therefore be the immediate solution to little John Doe's problems. Then there's the practice of shooting at someone's house in a drive by attack that kills little Tiny Tim, the wonderful neighborhood kid who was always outside having fun playing. The firearm becomes the license of empowerment to get one's own way.

It will always be like this, that guns be used for sport in competition, or in hunting, or in defense, or in protection, or in criminal action. To whoever carries one on the hip also should carry the knowledge that he or she could be challenged to use it, and be held accountable for using it- that it's not just a decoration that is going to make the world much better or safer a place.


You make some good points!

I think we as a nation are to blame for much of what takes place.

Training in firearm safety is no doubt a very good thing to do but I think many of the issues go much deeper.

God is slowly being kicked out of our schools and traded in for teachings relating to the idea that people are the result of random accidents and there are no absolutes in regard to moral right and wrong.

I think when we start teaching our children about giving value to other people and their property and that God says with an absolute that we are to do unto other as we would have them do to us we have a better start.

I mean after all....the best firearm training in the world does not train the human heart. It just trains in the use of firearms.

But you are correct. I would not discount the concept of good firearm training. You are also correct that children get way too much training in all the wrong areas like TV and Games.

quote:

To whoever carries one on the hip also should carry the knowledge that he or she could be challenged to use it, and be held accountable for using it- that it's not just a decoration that is going to make the world much better or safer a place.


The FBI had a report saying that the mere presence of a firearm thwarted over 5000 crimes per day in the USA.....and that was without one shot being fired.

I will see if I can track down that report as it was a while back.

I guess it would be likened to the idea of me trying to rob a bunch of mean looking bikers that had knives, chains, guns, axes, and brass knuckles hanging all over them.

I guess if I had an original intent of robbing them.....it might very easily change my intent as soon as I saw them!

LOL

KJB



KingJamesBond -> RE: Second Amendment (6/28/2008 2:39:58 PM)

rnershigh,

quote:

Interesting post.
I live in Virginia.
Yes, I've heard the arguments that DC's gun crimes were due to Virginia guns making it into the city...something like, if Virginia had gun ban like DC, there would be no problem with guns coming into the city.


You live in Virginia? Ah ha!

Now we know why the crime is high in DC......it is because you need to be in DC fighting crime! LOL [;)]

It is a crazy concept to think that the lack of Virginia gun laws are to blame for high crime in DC.

It baffles me.

Did you look at that chart on Wiki?

We are not talking about a tiny difference....it looks to me as if DC is far outdoing you Virginians when it comes to crime!

It has to be something to do with people and guns.

People are more apt to leave people alone when they are more aware that they could be opposed by more people. I mean evil people exist everywhere, not only in DC.

A person once said something to the effect of controlling people. It can be done with the Bible on the heart, or the sword and by force.

Meaning;

If people cannot willingly submit to the basic golden rule of the Bible and treat others with decency, respect, and abstain from a life of crime......they will willingly submit to decency and respect by the force of the sword.

There has to be some deterent. If the Bible does not deter.....what other options do we have? Should we let evil run rampant all over us?

quote:

Oh, one interesting thing.
Former DC police chief Ramsey had stated the gun ban worked and should be in place, he said this when he was still acting police chief.
When asked about this again when the gun ban went to Supreme Court, after he quit, he admitted the gun ban didn't do anything to deter crimes with guns and that it didn't work.
Funny how he did a complete change of heart once he no longer worked for DC government.
I bet there are a lot more people that think that in DC government, but they stay quiet.


That is strange. I bet his second admission is more accurate of the truth. I also bet the police chief was not banned from having a gun, or several.

The mayor and police chief they have now seem to be real un-freedom fighters. I was watching them on video and they behave more like evil dictators instead of the people you would think are in place to protect your rights.

Do you think the mayor has people that follow him around anywhere that carry guns to protect him?

It reminds me of Hillary.....always seems to be making stands against firearm ownership so that a person could not defend his/her life in public, but has swarms of secret service people around her ready and armed to protect her life.

Are their lives more valuable than the rest of us peasants? [:'(]

quote:

Honestly, I've never understood why this gun ban was allowed and why the residents of DC put up with it for so long.


I dont either.

If every DC resident went and purchased a gun, marched to the Mayor in peace, and told him they dont want his restrictions, he probably still would not listen.

I dont know what should be done with the likes of his kind....I really dont!

I seem to think that people in such positions should be held for treason if they are working to thwart the rights of the American people.

Why are there people in our own government always trying to take away rights instead of protecting them?

It makes little sense.

Maybe he should be arrested and tried for being an enemy of the Constitution?

I am sort of at a loss as to how this sort of dictatorship stuff survives and and burns like some out of control wild fire?

I think it all boils down to what you say next;

quote:

I suppose in a way I shouldn't be surprised, a lot of people don't know what the Constitution says and the workings of their government.


You got it! The nail on the head!

I am not against our government....I am against bad people in our government if you know what I mean.

KJB



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