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Marcus. -> More Religious = More Conservative (6/28/2008 12:01:28 PM)

I thought this was interesting. It agrees with what I see in people at least. What are your thoughts on this?



Jun 26, 2008 21:42 | Updated Jun 27, 2008 14:36

By DANIELLE KUBES

Highly religiously observant Jews are more likely than other American Jews to be politically conservative, says part 2 of the US Religious Landscape Survey published this week by the Pew Research Center's Forum on Religion & Public Life.

The findings are consistent with other religious groups, where those who often attend religious services, say that they receive answers to prayers and believe in a strict interpretation of their religion teachings are more likely to be politically conservative than those who are less religious.

Story Continues



LCannon -> RE: More Religious = More Conservative (6/28/2008 12:25:56 PM)

A person can be zealous(remember Saul in Acts?), sincerely mistaken in they're conservatism and go to hell anyway. Romans 13:3-"...Do you want rest from authority regardless the source? Don’t insist on one’s priorities and you will have the praise of all 4 for[you will be]a minister of[these gifts] to all your benefit. But if you are bitter and selfish, be afraid for with bitterness comes the discipline of the Spirit for he is a minister, avenger and rewarder of the wrath of God to those who practices evil. 5 Therefore, it’s necessary to curb our natural tendency to wrath and minister to the body for conscience' sake."



CherishedbyGod -> RE: More Religious = More Conservative (6/28/2008 12:55:18 PM)

I did not read the article, but in my own journey with the Lord, I am changing. As I go through painful life struggles, I find that, from a politcal bent, I am becoming more liberal in some ways and less conservative. There is one issue I will never change on tho....

For as I go through trial after trial I have become more compassionate and less rigid and harsh (except sometimes in the current events folder[;)] where I tend to become mean)

Some people would say this is becoming more tolerant and I have been severely judged on these forums for "not taking a stand against sin", etc.

But it does not phase me anymore because I have the peace of God as I find myself not becoming more tolerant, but longing to be more like Jesus which is not "religion" but the language of LOVE.



BerianAardvark -> RE: More Religious = More Conservative (6/28/2008 1:38:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marcus.

Highly religiously observant Jews are more likely than other American Jews to be politically conservative, says part 2 of the US Religious Landscape Survey published this week by the Pew Research Center's Forum on Religion & Public Life.

The findings are consistent with other religious groups, where those who often attend religious services, say that they receive answers to prayers and believe in a strict interpretation of their religion teachings are more likely to be politically conservative than those who are less religious.



A Bible believing Christian (or Torah believing Jew), by definition, believes that there are absolutes, and that those absolutes are found in the scriptures.

If there are moral absolutes, then the redefinition of acceptable behavior by society (or factions of society) will be opposed where it clearly contradicts those absolutes.

If that means that we are more conservative, then I agree. We are certainly less likely to be swayed by the current social trends and "wisdom".

The difference lies in the measure used to determine what is acceptable behavior and what is not.

I can feel compassion for those who violate scripture, but still oppose them and their efforts to make what God clearly says is wrong into something that is acceptable or merely a matter of choice.

And part of that compassion is to attempt to bring them to an understanding of scripture...with gentleness and reverence; and a good conscience.

Your millage may vary,
Tim



Marcus. -> RE: More Religious = More Conservative (6/28/2008 2:10:31 PM)

I'm in Tim's camp on how to interact with those who modify God's Word to suit themselves. I always remember to be gentle with those who oppose the plain text because we are all sinners together. We are to help each other out. Until our bodies die we still have a chance to be saved. But I will not yield or agree with obvious heresy to conform to this world. It has little time left before in it.

I see more obvious heresy coming from the liberal camp myself. It is amazing to hear some of the things folks accept as 'gospel' which isn't or church history which isn't either.



PrexicKehdaki -> RE: More Religious = More Conservative (6/28/2008 2:32:33 PM)

It's definitely interesting.

I'm an atheist yet I'm politically conservative. But only as far as the principles of less government go. On social issues, I'm a typical atheist.



CherishedbyGod -> RE: More Religious = More Conservative (6/28/2008 2:47:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PrexicKehdaki

It's definitely interesting.

I'm an atheist yet I'm politically conservative. But only as far as the principles of less government go. On social issues, I'm a typical atheist.


Methinks you are not politically conservative, then[;)]



Marcus. -> RE: More Religious = More Conservative (6/28/2008 2:48:40 PM)

I didn't know there was a typical atheist position. [;)] We have many at work and they are all over the place politically.



CherishedbyGod -> RE: More Religious = More Conservative (6/28/2008 2:53:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marcus.

I didn't know there was a typical atheist position. [;)] We have many at work and they are all over the place politically.



Maybe he doesn't really know what he is. Maybe he isn't really a true atheist[:D]



PrexicKehdaki -> RE: More Religious = More Conservative (6/28/2008 2:59:33 PM)

Two keywords..

"only as far as"

and "typical" meaning stereotypical.

"Oh, he's just a typical atheist.. pro-choice and all that."

I know for a fact you know the stereotypes.. don't play games. lol



colliefan -> RE: More Religious = More Conservative (6/28/2008 3:06:49 PM)

The term religious can mean a great deal of things. One can faithfully go to a UU church that believes God is in nature, in abortion rights, and be against the death penalty (except for a fetus).

The answer is in how one develops a world-view. Is it from a the traditional Judeo-Christian world view. Or, is it based on secualr-hunanism. A conservative would typically base his world view on the former while a liberal would base his veiws on the later. A conservative would agrue we bow the knee to God while a liberal would argue we bow the knee to government.



CherishedbyGod -> RE: More Religious = More Conservative (6/28/2008 3:22:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PrexicKehdaki

don't play games. lol


No game playing[;)] Just having a little fun with you[;)]

After all, remember, you are on our turf[8D]

(Boy that sounded like a power-grab, did it not?)



PrexicKehdaki -> RE: More Religious = More Conservative (6/28/2008 3:23:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod

quote:

ORIGINAL: PrexicKehdaki

don't play games. lol


No game playing[;)] Just having a little fun with you[;)]

After all, remember, you are on our turf[8D]

(Boy that sounded like a power-grab, did it not?)


lol, I know.



terryjohn -> RE: More Religious = More Conservative (6/28/2008 4:49:58 PM)

Interesting words. Religion, conservative and liberal have many connotations. Unfortunately not many of them are positive. There is a buddist story of life being like a lot of blind men touching one part of an elephant and interpreting all life in terms of that part of the elephant they have hold of. As a result they reject all others interpretations as being misleading or false. The only problem most have with this idea is, does every man have to be blind? That is, if one man were to see the whole elephant and told the blind what he saw, why would they not believe him?

The truth is Chirst was neither conservative or liberal and yet He was. Much like His anger and love are but His. The problem with finite labels is they do violence to the dynamics of truth and reality and ultimately become meaningless much in the same way the term Christian has through misuse.

Was Christ religious, conservative or liberal? Who did Chirst oppose more? Who crucified Christ, the religious, the conservative or the liberal?

Personally like Christ, all who are in Chirst should defy all definitions that all the vain arguments of men should be confounded, confused and be brought to nothing that in the end men may see that God is in all. Not that God should be all things to all men but that God will be seen to be all for all men.

John 3:8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

1 Cor 1:27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things--and the things that are not--to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him. 30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31 Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."

The man who has experienced the wrath of God may well tell others about this wrath but having done so he would if being honest complete the story by also telling of God's grace.

Who is conservative? Who is liberal? Who is religious? Being one or the other gives a man no moral high ground for they do not have exclusive access to the truth or righteousness and certainly no hold on God.

1 Corinthians 9:19-23
19 Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

Having been freed from the bondage of mens wisdom, why do we seek to return to it by taking mens finiate terms to define the glory of God?



colliefan -> RE: More Religious = More Conservative (6/28/2008 5:21:13 PM)

The issue is how one sees the world. Does one see the world through the unchangeable lens of Scripture or through the changeable lenses of politics.

Wilberforce argued for decades for the abolition of slavery. Proponents said the abolition of slavery would hurt the British economy.

A current debate is the oil crisis. The fact is the adament refusal to drill anywhere is causing great economic harm. It is hurting the most those that liberals proclaim to love and care. Yes, the bible tells us we are to care for the Earth, but it also tell us that we to to subdue it an conquer it,
It tells that we are to worship its creator than itself.

It says we are to care for the poor but not award laziness.

It says that God gave man sex to be used in the marital bond of a man and a woman and that sex outside that bond is sin.

It says that sin is missing the mark. It says the cure for sin is the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

It would take a book to fully define this issue, but the larger question is: do we base our polity on feelings/charm or the Book or all Books: the Bible.



Marcus. -> RE: More Religious = More Conservative (6/28/2008 5:30:37 PM)

Thanks for the post Terryjohn. That was very good. [sm=thumbsup.gif]

You're right Colliefan. I think the Bible is The Book that defined that issue. The more you read, meditate, and pray on His Word the more meaning you discover to these questions and issues. [8D]



CherishedbyGod -> RE: More Religious = More Conservative (6/28/2008 5:38:39 PM)

terryjohn,

That is one of the best posts I have ever seen on these boards...a masterpiece!



LoyalGypsy -> RE: More Religious = More Conservative (7/2/2008 8:43:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marcus.

I didn't know there was a typical atheist position. [;)] We have many at work and they are all over the place politically.



Maybe he doesn't really know what he is. Maybe he isn't really a true atheist[:D]




Greetings,

quote:

Maybe he isn't really a true atheist[:D]


a typical atheist position who is at work all over the place... politically,
then..doesn't that make them religious...??



LG



CherishedbyGod -> RE: More Religious = More Conservative (7/2/2008 8:47:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy

quote:

ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marcus.

I didn't know there was a typical atheist position. [;)] We have many at work and they are all over the place politically.



Maybe he doesn't really know what he is. Maybe he isn't really a true atheist[:D]




Greetings,

quote:

Maybe he isn't really a true atheist[:D]


a typical atheist position who is at work all over the place... politically,
then..doesn't that make them religious...??

LG


Well, LG!

I've never seen you up here before...Good to "see" you here

...cherished



StephK -> RE: More Religious = More Conservative (7/2/2008 8:50:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod

quote:

ORIGINAL: PrexicKehdaki

It's definitely interesting.

I'm an atheist yet I'm politically conservative. But only as far as the principles of less government go. On social issues, I'm a typical atheist.


Methinks you are not politically conservative, then[;)]


Oh there are lots of conservative atheists. I participate on a couple conservative political forums and there are quite a few.



CherishedbyGod -> RE: More Religious = More Conservative (7/2/2008 9:06:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: StephK

quote:

ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod

quote:

ORIGINAL: PrexicKehdaki

It's definitely interesting.

I'm an atheist yet I'm politically conservative. But only as far as the principles of less government go. On social issues, I'm a typical atheist.


Methinks you are not politically conservative, then[;)]


Oh there are lots of conservative atheists. I participate on a couple conservative political forums and there are quite a few.


She and I got beyond that...I showed her the below video and asked her to watch it all the way through....

http://www.ignitermedia.com/products/iv/singles/4/Thats-My-King



LoyalGypsy -> RE: More Religious = More Conservative (7/2/2008 9:57:20 PM)

Greetings,

quote:

Maybe he isn't really a true atheist[:D]


a typical atheist position who is at work all over the place... politically,
then..doesn't that make them religious...??

LG


Well, LG!

I've never seen you up here before...Good to "see" you here

...cherished




Greetings,

Thanks...VM!


Today …I watched an interesting special on TBN about Christians who should be active in the political arenas; and the scriptures that were introduced pretty much put that icing on the cake...so to speak!

And reminded me of the context of Matthew 10:16-42... Verse 18-19 in particular…
v18 You will be brought before governors and kings for My sake,
As a testimony to them and to the Gentiles.

v19 But
When they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak.
For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak;

Well, it looks like our political hides are sitting on the burner; and that hour Jesus mentioned is here.
...........And we all know how long a Biblical hour could be... [:D]






Even more so,
While the gentleman on TBN was hashing out some very good information scripturally, according to our American Heritage; ….which is being re-written.
(You know…by that spirit of the world that says… There was no Holocaust)

….it reminded me, that in the Book of Esther, Mordecai was a scribe in the Kings Palace, just because he was there; when the time came; and the deceptions were discovered; Mordecai …rose to next to the top; of the chain.

SO politically speaking… there seems to be lot of missing (Christian) links in the chain; and Jesus in Matt 10 v18 is just waiting for us to make us a testimony to them. (For his glory)



But...
by definition of Conservative as in favor of preserving the status quo… and traditional values and customs, and against abrupt change,
Those abrupt changes already took place; and that which were traditional values and customs are being rewritten; and are now the new traditions. [:(]


quote:

The findings are consistent with other religious groups, where those who often attend religious services, say that they receive answers to prayers and believe in a strict interpretation of their religion teachings are more likely to be politically conservative than those who are less religious.



And I wouldn’t know about any of that but if I couldn't classify myself personally as being More Conservative, more like being less Conservative perhaps, because Christians and Jews should be turning those abrupt changes around that have already occurred ; by an all out assault on the ungodly... (Politically speaking!)

By that I guess I would be Radical in that sense…. as medicine describes ….a treatment that is intended to remove the source of a disease , rather than simply treating the symptoms , ....Just as Jesus the great physician described in Matt 10:18-19

That hour Jesus mentioned is here.


LG



DSmitty -> RE: More Religious = More Conservative (7/3/2008 7:55:46 AM)

You know, when you read about how the early church had all things common... that would seem pretty "socialistic" by today's political standards. Not something a lot of American cultural Christians would adhere to (I mean no offense).

I am conservative myself, but (and please don't hate me) probably not as much for the "moral issues" (for example, I think that gay marriage is mostly a non-issue because what makes a marriage a marriage is that it's honored of God; not that the state honors it. During slavery many slaves were joined in marriage via their own ceremonies which were not recognized by law but were recognized by God) my issue is that I don't believe in big government.

The liberal model is to micro manage the private sector to the point that private industry is discouraged (which of course is bad for the economy) and government spending to fund their micromanagement is increased (also bad for the economy).

I was a little miffed by a recent email from Diane Feinstein in response to an email that I sent her explaining my feelings about a "gay in the workplace" bill. I did not address the issue of the morality (or lack thereof) of the homosexual lifestyle in any way, shape or form. I specifically sited my reason for being against the bill one of government control in the private sector. It is my belief that "equal rights" laws, to be equal and therefore effective, cannot be written specifically for this people group or for that one. But I didn't even say that. I just said that I saw it as too much government control in the affairs of private businesses. Her response: "I understand that you do not feel that the homosexual lifestyle is appropriate." Well, in truth I don't, but since I never alluded to that at all in my message it seemed like a fairly presumptuous response - further aggravated by the fact that she did not address the concerns that I actually wrote about at all.

Anyway, I felt stereotyped by her in that she responded to me as a 'typical right-winger with their moral issues' while my real concerns were brushed aside. I imagine that her response was a form letter response... it wasn't written to me personally. But that's frustrating too because it shows that she's not listening to what people are saying.

Anyway, I said all of that to say that as far as politics go, my Christianity is not wrapped up in them. Jesus told Pilate that His Kingdom was not of this world and that if it were, his disciples would have fought to protect him. My political involvement is more on a natural, social level. In truth I see problems in both major parties - but the liberal mindset is just far more nonsensical to me.



BerianAardvark -> RE: More Religious = More Conservative (7/3/2008 8:24:27 AM)

quote:

You know, when you read about how the early church had all things common... that would seem pretty "socialistic" by today's political standards. Not something a lot of American cultural Christians would adhere to (I mean no offense).


The operative difference between socialism and the early church holding things in common is that they voluntarily shared what they had.

Socialism decides for you how much you are required "share" and then hands it out as if it was something of their their own that they were sharing.

"While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God." (Acts 5:4)

It wasn't that Ananias, and his wife Sapphira had held back some of the money from the sale, the land was theirs, as was the money they got for it. It was for lying, making like they were giving all they had gotten when they weren't that Peter confronted them.


Tim



LoyalGypsy -> RE: More Religious = More Conservative (7/3/2008 9:07:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DSmitty

You know, when you read about how the early church had all things common... that would seem pretty "socialistic" by today's political standards. Not something a lot of American cultural Christians would adhere to (I mean no offense).

I am conservative myself, but (and please don't hate me) probably not as much for the "moral issues" (for example, I think that gay marriage is mostly a non-issue because what makes a marriage a marriage is that it's honored of God; not that the state honors it. During slavery many slaves were joined in marriage via their own ceremonies which were not recognized by law but were recognized by God) my issue is that I don't believe in big government.

The liberal model is to micro manage the private sector to the point that private industry is discouraged (which of course is bad for the economy) and government spending to fund their micromanagement is increased (also bad for the economy).

I was a little miffed by a recent email from Diane Feinstein in response to an email that I sent her explaining my feelings about a "gay in the workplace" bill. I did not address the issue of the morality (or lack thereof) of the homosexual lifestyle in any way, shape or form. I specifically sited my reason for being against the bill one of government control in the private sector. It is my belief that "equal rights" laws, to be equal and therefore effective, cannot be written specifically for this people group or for that one. But I didn't even say that. I just said that I saw it as too much government control in the affairs of private businesses. Her response: "I understand that you do not feel that the homosexual lifestyle is appropriate." Well, in truth I don't, but since I never alluded to that at all in my message it seemed like a fairly presumptuous response - further aggravated by the fact that she did not address the concerns that I actually wrote about at all.

Anyway, I felt stereotyped by her in that she responded to me as a 'typical right-winger with their moral issues' while my real concerns were brushed aside. I imagine that her response was a form letter response... it wasn't written to me personally. But that's frustrating too because it shows that she's not listening to what people are saying.

Anyway, I said all of that to say that as far as politics go, my Christianity is not wrapped up in them. Jesus told Pilate that His Kingdom was not of this world and that if it were, his disciples would have fought to protect him. My political involvement is more on a natural, social level. In truth I see problems in both major parties - but the liberal mindset is just far more nonsensical to me.



Greetings,

I was a little miffed by a recent email from Diane Feinstein in response to an email that I sent her explaining my feelings about a "gay in the workplace" bill. I did not address the issue of the morality (or lack thereof) of the homosexual lifestyle in any way, shape or form. I specifically sited my reason for being against the bill one of government control in the private sector. It is my belief that "equal rights" laws, to be equal and therefore effective, cannot be written specifically for this people group or for that one.

With that being said; and her listening to different voices concerning forced hiring under the terms of equality, I believe this equality based on personal preference exposes a major hole in the system;
Equality of personal preference has nothing to do with ethnicity.
And there are already discrimination laws passed (in preparation for this very day) concerning disclosure of personal preferences whereby homosexuality was not one of them.
And in like manner to be equal ….then the bill by passing the "gay in the workplace" bill…. discloses this person’s personal preference and goes against what is written according to anti-discrimination laws;
IMHO….By passing the "gay in the workplace" bill it would be in violation of the same anti discrimination laws already passed simply by passing such a bill.

And if that bill is passed; then this agenda of a "gay in the workplace" bill should be basically required by law also… to give up their rights;

Because they have already made their personal preference known and therefore “in like manner” it should be a matter of public record…
And the first rule of this way of thinking is taking the Law of Moses away from public knowledge.

So there is absolutely no “in like manner” in their agendas….

Therefore that agenda by not adhering to the legal aspect in alignment to another’s beliefs; which that agenda pushes…that alone denies me the right, so I can do that research…. and I would not visit this persons business or establishment to support it.

They want everything but are not willing to make a sacrifice!
And that IMO is absolutely unequal.

Any O?




LG



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