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PrexicKehdaki -> RE: Questions, questions, questions. (7/1/2008 12:22:16 AM)
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ORIGINAL: Psalms274
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I really don't care what degrees
but you stated:
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All I can say is that you have some very erroneous numbers and don't seem to understand the abiogenesis theories, early cell functions, RNA, etc.. etc..
a degree in molecular biology is one that specializes in DNA and RNA ... I was trying to let you know that I do have a thorough knowledge of the subject and am qualified to share the knowledge with some authority. It was in no way an attempt to belittle you in anyway ... I am only attempting to share some knowledge on the subject ... and encourage you to look back on your own understanding of the subject. And again, the numbers are correct ... I checked three references before posting.
You continue with this, even though I've told you I can't reply. But fine, I just hope I don't get banned for this.
"he biggest problem you have for that one is a single strand of DNA (the blueprint needed to form proteins) is composes of 3.1 billion separate elements, all of which need to be in an exact order in order for life to occur."
Not true. If life is simply replicating molecules it can occur with far fewer elements than that. This argument is bunk, because by the same token I am made of a completely unique series of nucleotide bases, and if any one of them was out of place I would not exist. Does that mean I'm some kind of miracle? No, because if I didn't exist, somebody else would exist. If DNA didn't exist, we'd all be made of RNA.
"The probability of this happening, just by chance...."
Yes, but it didn't happen "by chance" so the point is moot. DNA probably evolved from RNA, and as we all know, evolution is not chance.
"the problem with that argument is that there is no evidence for this ancient chemical ocean."
Life probably didn't begin in a primordial ocean.
"yet the earliest sediments have very low nitrogen, about 0.15%"
Early Earth was full of ammonia... NH3.
"when examining the earliest sediments of the Earth, we should find large amounts of nitrogen-rich minerals ... "
We don't have sediments from the time life began on Earth. The earliest sediments we have are several hundred million years younger.
"You have to remember that amino acids come in right handed and left handed versions....."
There's an easy answer to this -- a filter that screens the amino acids.
"have often wondered how anyone who truly thinks things through can believe there is no God."
Because we know better than to use bunk arguments like lack of nitrogen in sediments.
"Dr. Francis Collins MD... brilliant by anyone standards, understands that there is a Creator behind the complexity of life."
If we're taking a poll of brilliant people, (and we SHOULDN'T) the majority think these magical deities are fiction. So we win.
"all of which need to be in an exact order in order for life to occur. (If one is out of place, the molecule will not fold when it needs to or will fold when it shouldn't, causing the strand give the wrong information."
The folding of the DNA strand has nothing to do with the information. You're confusing proteins and DNA. lol
"Stanley Miller..."
Whatever you say about Miller is irrelevant, unless you can show that Miller's experiment is somehow relevant to our understanding of abiogenesis. It isn't. Miller's experiments are half a century old and were flawed. Who cares what he found or what he didn't find? Why not look at experiments that were not flawed, such as Juan Oro?
"My numbers are accurate, I double checked the sources before posting"
I would love to see your source. Even if it's not an online source. Let me know what it is. I want to read this book, or site.. what-have-you.
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ORIGINAL: Psalms274
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Is it possible to have an open heart (not stubborn) but due to stupidity, be unconvinced by the Bible?
Again ... the answer has nothing to do with stupidity or intelligence ... though it is possible for someone to attempt to understand a concept they do not have the ability to understand and be lured into thinking creation did not require a creator.
An example ...
A child at the age of 4 is typically in the preoperative stage of cognitive development ... they do not have the ability of logical reasoning at this stage. So if you present to them a mathematical equation and tell them the results of that equation has a certain meaning, they can repeat it back to you with enough practice (their language development at this stage makes it possible for them to learn the language of math before understanding the concepts behind the language), but have no idea why it is true. You can easily present an incorrect answer and they will whole heartily believe you.
The same is true when trying to use your mind to grasp the meaning of life ... if you do not have the ability to readily absorb and process logical thought and to critically think through a concept, you can end up believing something you have memorized to be true without really understanding the concept behind what you memorized. So if you stubbornly hold onto a belief knowing that you do not have the ability to fully grasp what it is you believe, then yes, you will go to hell for not believing.
The beautiful thing about the gospel is that you do not need to understand, but can choose to. On the other hand, for those who have the ability to critically think through the details of science, history and the bible, they too can come to the same conclusion that there is a Creator and Jesus was who He claimed to be ...
You still haven't directly answered my questions. Here they are again.. please be specific. Like I said, I have a REALLY low IQ, so you'll have to be less vague and more direct to THESE specific questions.
" Where in the Bible does it say that someone that would otherwise go to Hell wouldn't if they were stupid? I'm not talking about mentally disabled. Just stupid.
Or are you saying stupid people always find belief in God? "
You see, I'm not saying you have to be smart to accept the truth claims in the Bible. You're right, and I never argued against, the fact that a unintelligent person can repeat what they're told and get into Heaven.
Are you actually saying stupidity will never allow a person with an open heart to find atheist arguments more convincing to them than Christianity arguments? If not, with the best of your ability, directly answer the questions.
As far as being stubborn goes. People who are actually trying to deny the Bible, while it is still convincing to them -- could they being doing so due to the events in their life? Perhaps they were abused by Christianity (or Christians, rather) or they hate the idea that their hypothetical atheist loved one who passed away is now suffering in Hell. There are thousands of reasons why someone may be actively running from Biblical truth claims. What reasons do you feel are acceptable for sending someone to Hell forever and what reasons do you feel aren't, if any?
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ORIGINAL: Psalms274
As to your statement " Please, you know very very well I can't address these things. You're being unfair. Please, just answer questions." If you had thoroughly read what I wrote you would see I wasn't looking for you to answer the questions ... I was looking for you to think critically, which I have yet to see evidence of in your posts .... critical thinking involves researching both sides of the argument from both perspectives.
No! I refuse to think critically. I want to stay an ignorant atheist!
Please, just don't ask questions you know I can't answer here. I'm just asking you to do this for me, I have no authority on this site.
That thread was against the rules, and you already pressured me into possibly breaking the rules again above. You've got to stop. You're going to get me banned.
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ORIGINAL: Psalms274
There have been a number of offers for you to pm people with your arguments to get around the TOS ... but you have declined the offer ... so to cry no fair is silly ... you can always pm me or any of the others here who have offered to present your side ...
If you do chose to pm me ... be sure to do your homework first ... which means looking at both sides critically. [;)] And think it through ... don't just spit back something you have read that sounds good ... make sure you can break it down in simple terms and be able to discuss both sides. That's the real test on how well you know a topic.
I'm pretty sure you don't know what's happening in my PM box. I've been carrying out conversations with a few people here, including Gazingstock.
You have to understand, Psalms, I'm booked. All the time I spend here is all the time I can. I can't cater myself to private lectures by you. Feel free to PM me with what ever you want, but I don't have time to give you special attention.
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ORIGINAL: Psalms274
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If God knows what WILL happen to me, does that mean it MUST happen? Why must it happen? What's dictating that it must happen? The laws of nature? Does this interfere with free will?
I know this was addressed to another ... but ... God is eternal ... no beginning, no ending ... He made time for us and is not limited by time. If He knows something will happen in our future, from His perspective it has already happened ... yesterday and today are the same.
Right, that was established already. My question is what allows for our futures to be known rather then not yet determined. You're thinking about it wrong. We have time, we'll think of it as a long box, and God is outside it (or inside too?) and is able to see the beginning all the way up to the end. The question isn't HOW God sees our future, as this is already established (as theoretical as it may be), the question you misunderstood is a WHY-question.
You see, if Christians had presented me with a String-theory-esque version of time and higher dimensions, meaning that what God would be looking at is more of an infinite tree of possible choices we could all make, then I wouldn't be asking this question. However, Christians present this answer in the form of a single spatial line of time. Take that in consideration and I think you'll understand the question better.
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ORIGINAL: Psalms274
His sovereignty and the free will He gives us is something that cannot be understood with our finite minds ... His wisdom is infinite ... ours is not. There is not a human on this earth that will have the kind of knowledge and wisdom He processes, and there are somethings we can never know because of our own limitations.
Well I guess there's no point in questioning something you admit you can't possibly comprehend. [8|]
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