RE: Questions, questions, questions.

RE: Questions, questions, questions. (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Faith] >> General Faith

Message

PureLight -> RE: Questions, questions, questions. (7/9/2008 10:47:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PrexicKehdaki quote: ORIGINAL: PureLight PrexicKehdaki, have you ever checked out Ravi Zacharias? Mhm. He has some pretty interesting arguments. Feel free to post any of his apologies and I'll give my opinion. Your questions are all over the place and the format to which people have been replying has been hurting my eyes. I'd have to ask for an outlay of the questions and I'd have to pray and look up stuff. I wouldn't mind doing so if you wouldn't.

Psalms274 -> RE: Questions, questions, questions. (7/10/2008 12:53:35 PM)
quote: I asked earlier, "Is it possible to have an open heart (not stubborn) but due to stupidity, be unconvinced by the Bible?" No ... it is not possible, because if your heart is truly open, God will reveal Himself to you in a way you can understand. Sometimes people think their heart is open, when it is really closed ... they hang onto a hidden agenda rather than looking for the truth. quote: Yet you now acknowledge that stupidity CAN lead you to Hell and God makes no exceptions for stupid people. I did not say that ... I said both stupid and intelligent people can go to heaven or hell ... but their stupidity or intelligence is not what got them to either place. God is able and will reveal Himself to anyone, and that means anyone, who is open to Him. quote: You really need to address this. Is it possible to have an open heart (not stubborn) but due to stupidity, be unconvinced by the Bible? No it is not possible ... I know people with IQ's of less than 50 with very a strong relationship with Christ, and because of that relationship, say the most profound things I have ever heard. I know small children who have a relationship with Christ. The message of the gospel is so simple, a small child can understand, yet so deep, the most intelligent can ponder the things of God and never get bored. quote: Do you feel it is just to send someone to Hell due to their stupidity? No I do not believe that would be just, and neither does God ... it does not happen and is not biblical. quote: You acknowledge the confusion people endure.. from horrific events to bad Christians tainting their religion's reputation.. but you also assert that we always have a clear choice. I don't see it that way. Like you, I've had some pretty horrific things happen in my life.. and at the time things weren't clear for me. I can only imagine how it must be like for others who may have less ability to cope or having had to endure even more traumatic or confusing events. How can you say their choice is always clear? Because His is always good ... He always makes Himself clear to whomever is struggling in desperate circumstances ... THOUGH you may not understand during the circumstances, and you may not be able to think clearly at that time ... but He will give you an opportunity to know Him before you breath your last breath. quote: Do people go to Hell for any other reason? No ... that really is the ONLY reason. He will always make Himself clear, and will bring the message to your level in a way you can understand. You will always have the choice to say, "yes I want your provision" or "No, I do not want You to save me." It's that simple. quote: Let's compare two different disbeliefs. One in the president and one in God. Not believing in the president even though we have footage of him and audio and millions of people alive today that have seen him, thousands that have touched him literally. The evidence that there is good evidence for the existence of the president is that just about no one has doubts that he exists. If I were to not believe in the president.. would that make me a bad person worthy of Hell? Apparently not, as no where in the Bible do non-believers in the president go to Hell. Here is the problem with your analogy. Believing God exists is NOT the prerequisite for going to heaven. Satan believes God exists. Before the foundation of the world, God knew we would fall into sin. He is both loving and just, so He knew there would be a problem. He longs to spend time with us, but cannot look upon sin. His solution was the cross, where He took our punishment we deserved. Now rather than saying"all is good, everyone gets in" He also gave us freewill to choose to be with Him. As much as He loves us, He wants to be sure that you are choosing Him. Would you like to have friends who HAVE TO BE YOUR FRIENDS? Probably not, and in the same way, He wants you to choose to be His. So the way to heaven is to believe that God Himself provided a way for you to spend eternity with Him and to accept the gift He has to offer you ... the gift is the accepting the payment He has given for your sin at the cross. quote: If I were to not believe in God.. would that make me a bad person worthy of Hell? Yes, on both parts according to the Bible. Actually none of us our good and all of us are worthy of hell ... to prove that look deep into your own thoughts and heart. Have you ever been impatient, angry with another, been selfish, told a lie? You get the picture. All of us are sinners and God demands perfection, something I can never achieve. God gives a free "get out of hell" card if you choose to take it. Taking it does not make you any less of a sinner. I still sin and must go to Him and ask for forgiveness when I do. This does not mean I have a license to sin either. The evidence I see every day in my life as to God coming to dwell with me is the way He has changed my heart and made it more like His own. Being a follower of Christ does not make me better than anyone else. But what happens when I take the gift God has to offer is He begins to change me from the inside out. I begin to understand His ways, and I desire to do the right thing because I am His. I find joy in the smallest of things and am never alone. I can now love deeper, understand things deeper, see clearer because I have chosen to be His. I remember trying to read the bible before I accepted His free gift to me ... it did not make any sense whatsoever! As soon as I said "yes" to Him I could suddenly understand what He was saying in the bible. It was like He was teaching me what the words were saying as I read them ... but it wasn't until after I accepted that gift that I understood. I leave you with a scripture that deals with the stupid and smart: 1 Corinthians 1:27 ff "Instead, God chose things the world considers foolish in order to shame those who think they are wise. And he chose things that are powerless to shame those who are powerful. God chose things despised by the world, things counted as nothing at all, and used them to bring to nothing what the world considers important. As a result, no one can ever boast in the presence of God." Blessings ... and a wonderful week (oh my ... I should say end of the week ... and weekend!) to you. [:)]

Clarity888 -> RE: Questions, questions, questions. (7/10/2008 1:31:53 PM)
WOW!!! Great Forum!!! This is one of the deepest forums relating to God & Christ that I have ever experienced. I can tell that you are an intellectual that's why the questions are being asked. In my opinion, all of us can sit here and throw bible verses at you and show you things in The Word, but the reality of it is, none of us really have the answers to your questions. You can ask as many questions about God and Hell as you want, but the question I have for you is - Do you want to believe there is an Almighty God? Of course there are thousands of scientific answers for natural disasters, biology and a ream of other things, but has their ever been a scientific understanding of ones SOUL?

Lufia -> RE: Questions, questions, questions. (7/10/2008 2:24:18 PM)
quote: The evidence I see every day in my life as to God coming to dwell with me is the way He has changed my heart and made it more like His own. Being a follower of Christ does not make me better than anyone else. But what happens when I take the gift God has to offer is He begins to change me from the inside out. I begin to understand His ways, and I desire to do the right thing because I am His. I find joy in the smallest of things and am never alone. I can now love deeper, understand things deeper, see clearer because I have chosen to be His. I remember trying to read the bible before I accepted His free gift to me ... it did not make any sense whatsoever! As soon as I said "yes" to Him I could suddenly understand what He was saying in the bible. It was like He was teaching me what the words were saying as I read them ... but it wasn't until after I accepted that gift that I understood Wow your description is exactly my experience too! I understand more and more of Him, joy in smallest things in life, 'before' i didn't understand the Bible now i do. I feel i'm being 'work' by God and i'm loving it [:D]

BibleL7 -> RE: Questions, questions, questions. (7/11/2008 1:17:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PrexicKehdaki quote: ORIGINAL: BibleL7 quote: ORIGINAL: PrexicKehdaki quote: ORIGINAL: BibleL7 quote: ORIGINAL: PrexicKehdaki lol, so i herd you liek mudkipz? (If you don't get it.. don't worry about it) Actually No not applicable. Is OK I would not expect you to understand. BTW just curious if you are same PrexicKehdaki who is author of the videos of Atheists. I know off topic but I am curious I found the one very well done. I will pray for you on the depression not an easy thing to deal with as ateist or believer been there on both sides. I do apologize if my posts have offended you. I would appreciate your forgiveness if possible it was not my intention to offend. I do understand.. and I kinda gave you a clue, if you're willing to investigate. ;-) And you haven't offended me at all. It's all good. ^-^ Sorry, I did try to investigate yet Pokemon is one I did not much get into if that is where the clue is and now is not possible for me to get into without a tv. Otherwise forgive an old man of his Ignorance of younger generation. I was an atheist many years before your time most likely. So I may miss some things which pertain to the younger generation. TY for forgiveness. It actually has nothing to do with pokemon :P If this is so I will ask only one question that may not make sence otherwise. Are you sure?

PrexicKehdaki -> RE: Questions, questions, questions. (7/11/2008 9:49:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD quote: ORIGINAL: BibleL7 quote: ORIGINAL: PrexicKehdaki lol, so i herd you liek mudkipz? (If you don't get it.. don't worry about it) Actually No not applicable. Is OK I would not expect you to understand. BTW just curious if you are same PrexicKehdaki who is author of the videos of Atheists. I know off topic but I am curious I found the one very well done. I will pray for you on the depression not an easy thing to deal with as ateist or believer been there on both sides. I do apologize if my posts have offended you. I would appreciate your forgiveness if possible it was not my intention to offend. I am also interested to know if you are the same person who posts the videos on you tube. I bet you are. I did not like your video on why you don't believe in God, quoting the statistics on divorce. So are the forum posting, question asking, prex, and the you tube video producing prex, one and the same? HMMMMMMMMMMMM? Yes, that's me. And that video had nothing to do with why I don't believe in God. It was a response to theists claiming atheists are evil.

PrexicKehdaki -> RE: Questions, questions, questions. (7/11/2008 9:51:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PureLight quote: ORIGINAL: PrexicKehdaki quote: ORIGINAL: PureLight PrexicKehdaki, have you ever checked out Ravi Zacharias? Mhm. He has some pretty interesting arguments. Feel free to post any of his apologies and I'll give my opinion. Your questions are all over the place and the format to which people have been replying has been hurting my eyes. I'd have to ask for an outlay of the questions and I'd have to pray and look up stuff. I wouldn't mind doing so if you wouldn't. It's hurting my eyes too.. I'm having trouble keeping up. Tell you what.. reply to anything in the first post and I'll respond as if I haven't answered it elsewhere in the thread. Would that help?

PrexicKehdaki -> RE: Questions, questions, questions. (7/11/2008 10:18:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Psalms274 quote: I asked earlier, "Is it possible to have an open heart (not stubborn) but due to stupidity, be unconvinced by the Bible?" No ... it is not possible, because if your heart is truly open, God will reveal Himself to you in a way you can understand. Sometimes people think their heart is open, when it is really closed ... they hang onto a hidden agenda rather than looking for the truth. Well there we go again.. Christianity tells you about the personal life of everyone in the world.. how am I supposed to respond to that? quote: ORIGINAL: Psalms274 quote: You really need to address this. Is it possible to have an open heart (not stubborn) but due to stupidity, be unconvinced by the Bible? No it is not possible ... I know people with IQ's of less than 50 with very a strong relationship with Christ, and because of that relationship, say the most profound things I have ever heard. I know small children who have a relationship with Christ. The message of the gospel is so simple, a small child can understand, yet so deep, the most intelligent can ponder the things of God and never get bored. The existence of people with low IQ's that have a relationship with Christ doesn't address my question as I wasn't asking of absolute generalizations. But I really don't get how you can say every unintelligent person that goes to Hell didn't have an open heart or was stubborn. Every single unintelligent child or person in a Muslim culture who goes to Hell.. they go because they were stubborn? If they weren't stubborn, they would be more convinced by Christianity than Islam? quote: ORIGINAL: Psalms274 quote: You acknowledge the confusion people endure.. from horrific events to bad Christians tainting their religion's reputation.. but you also assert that we always have a clear choice. I don't see it that way. Like you, I've had some pretty horrific things happen in my life.. and at the time things weren't clear for me. I can only imagine how it must be like for others who may have less ability to cope or having had to endure even more traumatic or confusing events. How can you say their choice is always clear? Because His is always good ... He always makes Himself clear to whomever is struggling in desperate circumstances ... THOUGH you may not understand during the circumstances, and you may not be able to think clearly at that time ... but He will give you an opportunity to know Him before you breath your last breath. And what if you're too weak from the circumstances to find faith again or for the first time? Psalms, you can always say someone that goes to Hell.. is because they were stubborn and nothing else, but how is even THAT worth Hell? It's a character flaw. Big deal. Stubbornness is such a horrible deed that one should be sent to Hell for it? Psalms, you speak of having an open heart. But how is someone supposed to know what religion to open one's heart to if they all have arguments, and especially (I'm not actually implying this) if they were too stupid to be convinced most by Christianity? quote: ORIGINAL: Psalms274 quote: Let's compare two different disbeliefs. One in the president and one in God. Not believing in the president even though we have footage of him and audio and millions of people alive today that have seen him, thousands that have touched him literally. The evidence that there is good evidence for the existence of the president is that just about no one has doubts that he exists. If I were to not believe in the president.. would that make me a bad person worthy of Hell? Apparently not, as no where in the Bible do non-believers in the president go to Hell. If I were to not believe in God.. would that make me a bad person worthy of Hell? Yes, on both parts according to the Bible. Why is this? Undoubtedly, Christians will tell me that disbelief in God is much worse because I'm not believing in something that created me and loves me infinitely and is of the up most glory. But who is this taking into consideration? God. It doesn't take me into consideration even though it's MY eternal fate at stake. Because God is of infinite value.. the act of not believing in him is worthy of Hell. What is this taking into consideration? The act itself or the party offended? Here is the problem with your analogy. Believing God exists is NOT the prerequisite for going to heaven. Satan believes God exists. I hope you don't mind me quoting my entire analogy. I need it for reference. I never dealt with belief in my analogy. Only two possible DISbeliefs.. one that does not guarantee Hell and one that does (usually? some Christians might argue a few circumstances). quote: ORIGINAL: Psalms274 Before the foundation of the world, God knew we would fall into sin. He is both loving and just, so He knew there would be a problem. He longs to spend time with us, but cannot look upon sin. His solution was the cross, where He took our punishment we deserved. Now rather than saying"all is good, everyone gets in" He also gave us freewill to choose to be with Him. As much as He loves us, He wants to be sure that you are choosing Him. Would you like to have friends who HAVE TO BE YOUR FRIENDS? Probably not, and in the same way, He wants you to choose to be His. So the way to heaven is to believe that God Himself provided a way for you to spend eternity with Him and to accept the gift He has to offer you ... the gift is the accepting the payment He has given for your sin at the cross. Explaining how getting into Heaven works doesn't address my point. Read the part you left out in the quotation. quote: ORIGINAL: Psalms274 quote: If I were to not believe in God.. would that make me a bad person worthy of Hell? Yes, on both parts according to the Bible. Actually none of us our good and all of us are worthy of hell ... to prove that look deep into your own thoughts and heart. Have you ever been impatient, angry with another, been selfish, told a lie? You get the picture. All of us are sinners and God demands perfection, something I can never achieve. Saying that we all deserve Hell doesn't change who does and doesn't go and the criteria for such. quote: ORIGINAL: Psalms274 Blessings ... and a wonderful week (oh my ... I should say end of the week ... and weekend!) to you. [:)] lol, you too minus the blessings. I can't really honestly wish you blessings. ;-)

PrexicKehdaki -> RE: Questions, questions, questions. (7/11/2008 10:19:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BibleL7 quote: ORIGINAL: PrexicKehdaki quote: ORIGINAL: BibleL7 quote: ORIGINAL: PrexicKehdaki quote: ORIGINAL: BibleL7 quote: ORIGINAL: PrexicKehdaki lol, so i herd you liek mudkipz? (If you don't get it.. don't worry about it) Actually No not applicable. Is OK I would not expect you to understand. BTW just curious if you are same PrexicKehdaki who is author of the videos of Atheists. I know off topic but I am curious I found the one very well done. I will pray for you on the depression not an easy thing to deal with as ateist or believer been there on both sides. I do apologize if my posts have offended you. I would appreciate your forgiveness if possible it was not my intention to offend. I do understand.. and I kinda gave you a clue, if you're willing to investigate. ;-) And you haven't offended me at all. It's all good. ^-^ Sorry, I did try to investigate yet Pokemon is one I did not much get into if that is where the clue is and now is not possible for me to get into without a tv. Otherwise forgive an old man of his Ignorance of younger generation. I was an atheist many years before your time most likely. So I may miss some things which pertain to the younger generation. TY for forgiveness. It actually has nothing to do with pokemon :P If this is so I will ask only one question that may not make sence otherwise. Are you sure? Yes. It has to do with where that meme came from. But a fair warning, if you investigate too far you're going to find yourself in some inappropriate content.

PrexicKehdaki -> RE: Questions, questions, questions. (7/11/2008 10:29:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Clarity888 WOW!!! Great Forum!!! This is one of the deepest forums relating to God & Christ that I have ever experienced. I can tell that you are an intellectual that's why the questions are being asked. In my opinion, all of us can sit here and throw bible verses at you and show you things in The Word, but the reality of it is, none of us really have the answers to your questions. You can ask as many questions about God and Hell as you want, but the question I have for you is - Do you want to believe there is an Almighty God? Of course there are thousands of scientific answers for natural disasters, biology and a ream of other things, but has their ever been a scientific understanding of ones SOUL? I'm not so sure I want believe in God as much as I want their to BE a God than believe in him. No, there is no "scientific understanding" of a soul or any religion's afterlife for that matter because there's no data or way to test it.

Kath -> RE: Questions, questions, questions. (7/11/2008 12:53:00 PM)
quote: Psalms, you can always say someone that goes to Hell.. is because they were stubborn and nothing else, but how is even THAT worth Hell? It's a character flaw. Big deal. Stubbornness is such a horrible deed that one should be sent to Hell for it? You just don't seem to get it. The fall of man with Adam was such a horrible deed that we all deserve to be sent to hell. We all have a sin nature. So yeah, stubbornness is such a horrible deed that one should be sent to hell for it. It is only through Christ Jesus that one is saved. Believe it or not, it's up to you.

PrexicKehdaki -> RE: Questions, questions, questions. (7/11/2008 2:13:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kath quote: Psalms, you can always say someone that goes to Hell.. is because they were stubborn and nothing else, but how is even THAT worth Hell? It's a character flaw. Big deal. Stubbornness is such a horrible deed that one should be sent to Hell for it? You just don't seem to get it. The fall of man with Adam was such a horrible deed that we all deserve to be sent to hell. We all have a sin nature. So yeah, stubbornness is such a horrible deed that one should be sent to hell for it. It is only through Christ Jesus that one is saved. Believe it or not, it's up to you. [8\|] quote: ORIGINAL: PrexicKehdaki Saying that we all deserve Hell doesn't change who does and doesn't go and the criteria for such.

kmangel -> RE: Questions, questions, questions. (7/11/2008 2:20:06 PM)
I think that your problem of not having faith in God or belief in Jesus and what He came to do here on earth is likely a lack of a sense of need for God. You plain and simple, at least at this point in time, have no real need for God. Would you agree? I was raised with some Christian teachings, but I wasn't a Christian until I was 43. It wasn't until I came to a family crisis that I reached out to God and found Him. I needed God to help me and He did. That was a defining moment in my life. Last week I was visiting my brother and sister-in-law. I was talking to them about my day of salvation. I believe that God set up circumstances in my life to bring me to the point 11 years ago when I reached out to Him. It took the family crisis to bring me to my knees. If things had kept on going along without anything to disturb me, nothing to trip me up, perhaps I'd be still where I was 11 years ago--without faith. My sister-in-law, as I was talking to her, told me I willingly had rejected Jesus all those years. That just didn't sit well in my heart. I had an interest prior to my salvation. I did want to know God. I wanted to know I would go to Heaven and not Hell. Nobody in their right mind settles on Hell. Why didn't I have faith in God and Jesus years ago? I think it all comes down to need--needing God. Being self sufficient in this life as many of us are now a days does nobody any favors! Have you asked God to give you a sense of need for Him? I really think sensing a need for God is imperative. We Christians talk about our needing to see ourselves as sinners. If you can't see yourself as having sinned, then how can you see yourself as needing a Savior? For me I did have the concept down about being a sinner. I had absorbed that part of my teachings as a child. I knew I wasn't perfect--that I did things I wasn't supposed to do and failed to do things I should. What I did not have is any real sense of needing God. Up until that point in time 11 years ago, my life was going along very well on it's own steam. Then wham! Life happens and I was out of my comfort zone. I turned to God. I cried out to Him and He responded. He gave me faith to believe. You see, faith is something God gives to us. All those 43 years prior to my salvation I had knowledge about God and Jesus--but no faith. My heart needed to soften towards God. Perhaps that's really what is alluding you--needing God. How are you doing in your own steam? Are you getting along pretty well all by yourself? If so, that's part of the problem. One place to begin is to seek needing God in your life. Ask Him to show you that you do need Him.

PrexicKehdaki -> RE: Questions, questions, questions. (7/11/2008 2:27:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kmangel I think that your problem of not having faith in God or belief in Jesus and what He came to do here on earth is likely a lack of a sense of need for God. You plain and simple, at least at this point in time, have no real need for God. Would you agree? It's true I don't feel I need a god, but I don't think that's why I lack faith in one. quote: ORIGINAL: kmangel I was raised with some Christian teachings, but I wasn't a Christian until I was 43. It wasn't until I came to a family crisis that I reached out to God and found Him. I needed God to help me and He did. That was a defining moment in my life. Last week I was visiting my brother and sister-in-law. I was talking to them about my day of salvation. I believe that God set up circumstances in my life to bring me to the point 11 years ago when I reached out to Him. It took the family crisis to bring me to my knees. If things had kept on going along without anything to disturb me, nothing to trip me up, perhaps I'd be still where I was 11 years ago--without faith. My sister-in-law, as I was talking to her, told me I willingly had rejected Jesus all those years. That just didn't sit well in my heart. I had an interest prior to my salvation. I did want to know God. I wanted to know I would go to Heaven and not Hell. Nobody in their right mind settles on Hell. Why didn't I have faith in God and Jesus years ago? I think it all comes down to need--needing God. Being self sufficient in this life as many of us are now a days does nobody any favors! Perhaps, for some people. quote: ORIGINAL: kmangel Have you asked God to give you a sense of need for Him? I really think sensing a need for God is imperative. We Christians talk about our needing to see ourselves as sinners. If you can't see yourself as having sinned, then how can you see yourself as needing a Savior? For me I did have the concept down about being a sinner. I had absorbed that part of my teachings as a child. I knew I wasn't perfect--that I did things I wasn't supposed to do and failed to do things I should. What I did not have is any real sense of needing God. Up until that point in time 11 years ago, my life was going along very well on it's own steam. Then wham! Life happens and I was out of my comfort zone. I turned to God. I cried out to Him and He responded. He gave me faith to believe. You see, faith is something God gives to us. All those 43 years prior to my salvation I had knowledge about God and Jesus--but no faith. My heart needed to soften towards God. Perhaps that's really what is alluding you--needing God. How are you doing in your own steam? Are you getting along pretty well all by yourself? If so, that's part of the problem. One place to begin is to seek needing God in your life. Ask Him to show you that you do need Him. I'm actually not all that happy, usually, but it was worse when I had faith in God and felt I needed him. I'm not sure how to go about convincing myself I need something I don't believe exists. :P I'll give it a try, but I doubt anything's going to happen.

BibleL7 -> RE: Questions, questions, questions. (7/11/2008 3:45:07 PM)
Your questions are aimed at finding loopholes which do not exist. Judgement is sure and true. Where the questions should be aimed is if such person can receive mercy and forgiveness. It is an error to try to find loopholes that might allow a person to escape judgement when the verdict is set. The only hope is to possibly receive mercy and forgiveness. For if one finds a loophole it does not change the guilt to innocence. Yet the judge does have another option of applying mercy. See I don't believe you actually did understand what I was getting at, but is OK Jesus still loves you.

PrexicKehdaki -> RE: Questions, questions, questions. (7/11/2008 4:07:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BibleL7 Your questions are aimed at finding loopholes which do not exist. Judgement is sure and true. Where the questions should be aimed is if such person can receive mercy and forgiveness. It is an error to try to find loopholes that might allow a person to escape judgement when the verdict is set. The only hope is to possibly receive mercy and forgiveness. For if one finds a loophole it does not change the guilt to innocence. Yet the judge does have another option of applying mercy. You're free to consider my eternal fate, but I haven't been asking questions with the set premise that everything in Christianity is true. My questions don't assume anything like that. I think that's why you're not understanding them. quote: ORIGINAL: BibleL7 Jesus still loves you. Pretty sweet. ^-^

OneJohn410 -> RE: Questions, questions, questions. (7/11/2008 4:49:20 PM)
quote: Prexic - Him always having been is the crucial problem in my question. Please read it again.. you really didn't answer the question. I'm asking why such specific qualities exist in a being that was never created. It has nothing to do with me disagreeing with his choice of morals. partial quote quote: OneJohn410- You are simply playing around with verbage. God was not some being that was never created. God is someone who has always been in existence quote: Prexic- When you say "God was not some being that was never created".. am I supposed to think anything other than that you're asserting that God WAS created? That contradicts "God is someone who has always been in existence." You ask about qualities of God, stating He's someone who was never created. You then posit that as I failed to quote your comment about Him not being created, I'm contradicting myself. Let me get it clear for you. As God is the creator of all, He is the author of all creation. That means creation does not apply to Him. Rather it is He who applied creation to cause existence. I should have quoted your own words but didn't, and I apologize on that oversight and any confusion or supportive thinking you saw toward your general faith from it. Do know that having learned of your challenging past, I find your daring to not lock yourself up in psychological isloation and claim you've maxed out on the comfort you can find in this life has got to be a real challenge. I promise I will not try to find comfort in any Hare Krishnas or seeking any miracles for you from Buddhist monks, Hindu folks, or reading the latest of any of the other things you've mentioned. There is only One I know of that can make all that fade like a wild flower in the field, and you don't have to climb a mountain to know Him forever. OneJohn410

PrexicKehdaki -> RE: Questions, questions, questions. (7/11/2008 5:10:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OneJohn410 quote: Prexic - Him always having been is the crucial problem in my question. Please read it again.. you really didn't answer the question. I'm asking why such specific qualities exist in a being that was never created. It has nothing to do with me disagreeing with his choice of morals. partial quote quote: OneJohn410- You are simply playing around with verbage. God was not some being that was never created. God is someone who has always been in existence quote: Prexic- When you say "God was not some being that was never created".. am I supposed to think anything other than that you're asserting that God WAS created? That contradicts "God is someone who has always been in existence." You ask about qualities of God, stating He's someone who was never created. You then posit that as I failed to quote your comment about Him not being created, I'm contradicting myself. Let me get it clear for you. As God is the creator of all, He is the author of all creation. That means creation does not apply to Him. Rather it is He who applied creation to cause existence. I should have quoted your own words but didn't, and I apologize on that oversight and any confusion or supportive thinking you saw toward your general faith from it. Ah, didn't catch that. Thank you for bringing it to my attention! quote: ORIGINAL: OneJohn410 Do know that having learned of your challenging past, I find your daring to not lock yourself up in psychological isloation and claim you've maxed out on the comfort you can find in this life has got to be a real challenge. I promise I will not try to find comfort in any Hare Krishnas or seeking any miracles for you from Buddhist monks, Hindu folks, or reading the latest of any of the other things you've mentioned. There is only One I know of that can make all that fade like a wild flower in the field, and you don't have to climb a mountain to know Him forever. OneJohn410 I don't think that.. I have things planned in my life that I know and hope will bring me more comfort.

DreadPirateRandy -> RE: Questions, questions, questions. (7/11/2008 5:54:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Clarity888 but the reality of it is, none of us really have the answers to your questions. Exactly. You shouldn't waste time asking humans with finite knowledge to answer questions about an infinitely intelligent God. Go to the source. Ask God Himself. I don't care if you don't "believe" in Him, that's not an excuse I'm willing to buy into. He's always going to exist no matter who lacks faith, no one person can change that. You lose yourself, you gain life. It's a simple concept, but only if you're willing to step out of your all-questioning comfort zone and fear of what might happen when God fully begins to rox the soxs off your life. quote: Of course there are thousands of scientific answers for natural disasters, biology and a ream of other things, but has their ever been a scientific understanding of ones SOUL? What divides science and God lies in your post. Science = thousands of scientific assumptions, not all are clear-cut answers. God = THE solution. Again, you can continue to ask questions, but you're never going to get a clear-cut answer unless you take it to the source. Which means putting aside science and the constant state of questioning and stepping off into faith. And I don't believe in baby feeding those too stubborn to open their eyes. Either they want to, or they don't. I am not going to hesitate the opportunity to proclaim the power of God whenever someone questions it.

BibleL7 -> RE: Questions, questions, questions. (7/11/2008 6:13:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PrexicKehdaki quote: ORIGINAL: BibleL7 Your questions are aimed at finding loopholes which do not exist. Judgement is sure and true. Where the questions should be aimed is if such person can receive mercy and forgiveness. It is an error to try to find loopholes that might allow a person to escape judgement when the verdict is set. The only hope is to possibly receive mercy and forgiveness. For if one finds a loophole it does not change the guilt to innocence. Yet the judge does have another option of applying mercy. You're free to consider my eternal fate, but I haven't been asking questions with the set premise that everything in Christianity is true. My questions don't assume anything like that. I think that's why you're not understanding them. quote: ORIGINAL: BibleL7 Jesus still loves you. Pretty sweet. ^-^ I did not say the questions were based on premise that everything in Christianity is true. I do understand the questions, I am simply saying that some of the questions do not have validity in accordance with what the Bible teaches. Thus attempts to answer them are somewhat futile. It does appear that I do owe you an apology on my question of 'are you sure'. So Sorry it was in deed based on the false assumption on my part that you possibly did understand what I was trying to say in the posts. It would appear that my first reply to the statement was refering to what you were saying and your saying you understood what I was getting at I took a chance that we were on same page. We obviously were not. As it would not be appropriate to say more on it in this thread once again SORRY.

kmangel -> RE: Questions, questions, questions. (7/11/2008 6:43:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PrexicKehdaki I'm not sure how to go about convincing myself I need something I don't believe exists. :P I'll give it a try, but I doubt anything's going to happen. Well, you see, that's the thing. Your trying to convince yourself that you need something that you think doesn't exist is futile. When the time comes there will be something that pulls you to your knees and you will call out to God. You may not even know He exists, but He will answer your call--but only when your heart is ready to submit to God. I don't know what God will need to do in your life to humble you, to cause you to cry out, but He does. For me it was my child. I may have been content to ignore God for my own needs, but not for the needs of my child. God knew just what I needed to experience in order to reach out to Him. Everybody has different needs. What drove me to God may not be what would drive you to God, but there is something that will drive you to Him. And when that day arrives, rest assured, God is waiting patiently. You can call out at any point during your life. Now, I'm curious. If you were to concede that there is a God and a Heaven, what do you surmise would be His requirments for admittance? Let's forgo the notion of Hell. Nobody wants to go to Hell. That's a no brainer. So, in your opinion, what do you think would be God's admittance to Heaven criteria? You say you don't believe, but I'm curious, though, what you think would be God's requirement for Heaven if He were to exist.

PrexicKehdaki -> RE: Questions, questions, questions. (7/11/2008 8:13:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GrapeApe quote: ORIGINAL: Clarity888 but the reality of it is, none of us really have the answers to your questions. Exactly. You shouldn't waste time asking humans with finite knowledge to answer questions about an infinitely intelligent God. If it was written by only humans, would there be any signs? quote: ORIGINAL: GrapeApe Go to the source. Ask God Himself. I don't care if you don't "believe" in Him, that's not an excuse I'm willing to buy into. He's always going to exist no matter who lacks faith, no one person can change that. You lose yourself, you gain life. It's a simple concept, but only if you're willing to step out of your all-questioning comfort zone and fear of what might happen when God fully begins to rox the soxs off your life. lol, easy.. First, I don't believe in God.. you probably don't believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Don't believe in the FSM? I don't care if you don't "believe" in Him, that's not an excuse I'm willing to buy into. Just start talking to him even though you don't believe in Him. And besides, He exists no matter who lacks faith in Him. You need to start fearing this thing you don't believe in before he rox the soxs off your life. I'm not mocking you GrapeApe, I just want you to see how weird it sounds for me. quote: ORIGINAL: GrapeApe quote: ORIGINAL: Clarity888 Of course there are thousands of scientific answers for natural disasters, biology and a ream of other things, but has their ever been a scientific understanding of ones SOUL? What divides science and God lies in your post. Science = thousands of scientific assumptions, not all are clear-cut answers. God = THE solution. Again, you can continue to ask questions, but you're never going to get a clear-cut answer unless you take it to the source. Which means putting aside science and the constant state of questioning and stepping off into faith. I agree. Religions will all give you absolute answers. They may not agree with each other, or science.. but if you want absolutes your best pick is a religion. quote: ORIGINAL: GrapeApe And I don't believe in baby feeding those too stubborn to open their eyes. Either they want to, or they don't. I am not going to hesitate the opportunity to proclaim the power of God whenever someone questions it. -shrugs-

PrexicKehdaki -> RE: Questions, questions, questions. (7/11/2008 8:20:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BibleL7 quote: ORIGINAL: PrexicKehdaki quote: ORIGINAL: BibleL7 Your questions are aimed at finding loopholes which do not exist. Judgement is sure and true. Where the questions should be aimed is if such person can receive mercy and forgiveness. It is an error to try to find loopholes that might allow a person to escape judgement when the verdict is set. The only hope is to possibly receive mercy and forgiveness. For if one finds a loophole it does not change the guilt to innocence. Yet the judge does have another option of applying mercy. You're free to consider my eternal fate, but I haven't been asking questions with the set premise that everything in Christianity is true. My questions don't assume anything like that. I think that's why you're not understanding them. quote: ORIGINAL: BibleL7 Jesus still loves you. Pretty sweet. ^-^ I did not say the questions were based on premise that everything in Christianity is true. I do understand the questions, I am simply saying that some of the questions do not have validity in accordance with what the Bible teaches. That's what I said.. They aren't assuming everything in the Bible is valid. They aren't operating under that premise. If the only way to question the Bible is to assume it is true.. then there's nothing I can do in this thread. quote: ORIGINAL: BibleL7 It does appear that I do owe you an apology on my question of 'are you sure'. So Sorry it was in deed based on the false assumption on my part that you possibly did understand what I was trying to say in the posts. It would appear that my first reply to the statement was refering to what you were saying and your saying you understood what I was getting at I took a chance that we were on same page. We obviously were not. As it would not be appropriate to say more on it in this thread once again SORRY. lol, it's really ok. ^-^ It takes a lot to offend or upset me. If I've ever offended you, I'm also sorry. :-)

DreadPirateRandy -> RE: Questions, questions, questions. (7/11/2008 8:41:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PrexicKehdaki First, I don't believe in God.. you probably don't believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Actually, I do. I believed he was incredibly delicious when I ate him for dinner. Mmm, mythy! quote: Just start talking to him even though you don't believe in Him. I believe people whom conversate with a plate of over hyped spaghetti to be clinically insane. No offence. [;)] quote: I'm not mocking you GrapeApe, I just want you to see how weird it sounds for me. You don't think it was weird for me either? I wasn't born a pastor's kid or lived a saintly life. I went to church but never accepted the existence of God or a god. It's simply illogical. But whatever is illogical becomes relative when a transformation deeper within you begins to happen. If you began to see your physical limbs just begin to grow before your eyes, would you deny it? See, I can't deny something that is very real taking place inside of me. I would be denying something I'm seeing with my own eyes, and then I become the illogical one. quote: -shrugs- You're more intelligent than that.

Kath -> RE: Questions, questions, questions. (7/11/2008 8:51:18 PM)
quote: If I were to experience a miracle that has no other possible explanation, I'd be agnostic until I found out what supernatural "thing" caused it If I ever even do find out. There are a lot of gods out there that could be performing miracles.. I'm not sure how I'll know which god did it. quote: I would have no way of knowing God's criteria, but optimally I think it'd be cool if people were judged not by what the happen to believe, or what culture they happened to be raised in, but by what they do, who they are, and who they love. A god that judges people on how they treat others, and just.. how good of a person they are given their circumstances. A god that doesn't see being stubborn a good enough reason to forever punish. And a god that doesn't see simple belief in his son and him enough reason for ultimate reward. I don't think there is anything more to say. This thread is closed for TOS. Sincerely Kath Volunteer Assistant Administrator Please do not reply to this message within the Community. Please do not send me PMs regarding this message as I am unable to discuss it further. Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns allowing time for a response during normal business hours. Posts which ignore this warning will be removed without warning and may result in other action in accordance with the Terms of Service. Please review our FAQ for an explanation as to why one cannot confront a moderator directly.

Page: << < prev 2 3 4 5 [6]

Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.5 ANSI