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RE: For those that think the end is near. - 7/15/2008 9:06:37 AM
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Dan1138
Posts: 183
Joined: 7/1/2008
From: The Land of Graham
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
Dan, if you're going to quote from another website, could you at least provide a link? Plagiarism isn't nice, even if we aren't writing college papers.
Thanks for the suggestion. I am new to forums.
Now MrFribbles one might think that you enjoy the spark of debate a little too much! After all wouldn't you say that plagarism is a VERY serious accusation liable to enflame the rage of fellow posters. Would you place me upon the level of Mrs White of the Seventh Day Adventists?
I don't think that anyone here or in the youth group would assume that historical brief to be my own work. I simply was answering the posters question regarding the miraculous return of the People to the Land and the preservation of the People over the last 60 years. Do you not think it miraculous?
_____________________________
My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
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RE: For those that think the end is near. - 7/15/2008 9:09:09 AM
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Dan1138
Posts: 183
Joined: 7/1/2008
From: The Land of Graham
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dan1138
I will research Isreals' recent history.
Very nice, but not proving any point.
The point is that God has not abandoned the Jews. Yom Kippur war, it was miraculous nearly on the scale of Gideon!
_____________________________
My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
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RE: For those that think the end is near. - 7/15/2008 9:20:15 AM
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Dan1138
Posts: 183
Joined: 7/1/2008
From: The Land of Graham
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: nickie18
Actually I don't have to watch the news to know that we are going into another Depression. I just look at everything going on. As in EVERY field here, is flooded out. EVERYTHING is going up. The gas is'nt going down. EVERY store, business, even the Library are talking about raising all there prices. I am pretty sure that we are about to slide into a deep depression. If, you don't believe me than thats fine.
I'm not sure where you got your info, but in the Great Depression, prices were low and supply was plentiful.
Yeah then they introduced Federal control to boost price economy wide, but it is coming around to bite the feds in the backside. This is Stagflation. Prices rise and we are not growing jobs to fill that monetary gap. I am not necessarily saying that the world is about to end just maybe the good ol' USA is gonna get her comeuppance for all those aborted babies. Ninety nine percent of all murder is abortion! God hated Isreals' passing of her children through the fire to the false god molech. He sent the Babylonians!!! How much worse has the USA done. I love the land of the Pilgrims not the land of progress.
_____________________________
My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
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RE: For those that think the end is near. - 7/15/2008 11:48:30 AM
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cow451
Posts: 3984
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dan1138
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dan1138
I will research Isreals' recent history.
Very nice, but not proving any point.
The point is that God has not abandoned the Jews. Yom Kippur war, it was miraculous nearly on the scale of Gideon!
Israel won due to superior training and strategic decision-making. Egypt made serious tactical errors following their initial gains. There was no parting of the Red Sea.
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Wenn Sie so intelligent sind, warum Sie hier sind?
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RE: For those that think the end is near. - 7/15/2008 8:28:37 PM
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Dan1138
Posts: 183
Joined: 7/1/2008
From: The Land of Graham
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dan1138
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dan1138
I will research Isreals' recent history.
Very nice, but not proving any point.
The point is that God has not abandoned the Jews. Yom Kippur war, it was miraculous nearly on the scale of Gideon!
Israel won due to superior training and strategic decision-making. Egypt made serious tactical errors following their initial gains. There was no parting of the Red Sea.
And you could say that the midianites were doing drugs or lacked sleep too. In fact many atheists probably do. My history prof from 100 years ago told us of a single Isreali tank brigade that held off a division of the enemy. How about the United States rising from the bowels of slumber, fighting a two front war and prevailing so as to preserve the Jews and install them in Israel. Do you realize how close we were to sprechen ze deutsch?
_____________________________
My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
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RE: For those that think the end is near. - 7/15/2008 11:09:59 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3984
Joined: 5/6/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dan1138
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dan1138
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dan1138
I will research Isreals' recent history.
Very nice, but not proving any point.
The point is that God has not abandoned the Jews. Yom Kippur war, it was miraculous nearly on the scale of Gideon!
Israel won due to superior training and strategic decision-making. Egypt made serious tactical errors following their initial gains. There was no parting of the Red Sea.
And you could say that the midianites were doing drugs or lacked sleep too. In fact many atheists probably do. My history prof from 100 years ago told us of a single Isreali tank brigade that held off a division of the enemy. How about the United States rising from the bowels of slumber, fighting a two front war and prevailing so as to preserve the Jews and install them in Israel. Do you realize how close we were to sprechen ze deutsch?
It's off topic, but you need to study history in a bit more detail. To ascribe "miracle" to every phenomenal victory by "the good guys" is simply a selective recall.
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Wenn Sie so intelligent sind, warum Sie hier sind?
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RE: For those that think the end is near. - 7/17/2008 12:53:56 AM
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Retrobyter
Posts: 394
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
It's off topic, but you need to study history in a bit more detail. To ascribe "miracle" to every phenomenal victory by "the good guys" is simply a selective recall.
Shalom, cow451.
Y'know, it's not wise to discount the influence God has had in the recent revival of the Jews and their homeland Isra'el from 1948 on. It was MUCH more than mere "superior training and strategic decision-making" on the part of ANY human beings! It was not just ONE miracle that God supplied in the creation of the modern state of Isra'el! There were a whole STRING of miracles! By all rights and by human calculations, there should have NEVER been a state of Isra'el, especially in 1948! With Hitler's attempted genocide and the pogroms and persecutions of the Jews throughout Europe and Asia, it was a miracle that there were ANY Jews left to form such a state! You can take the myopic position if you want, but REMEMBER...
The Scriptures say, ...
Prov 21:1-2
1 The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.
2 Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts.
KJV
HE guides the choices of men and determines the course of history! You may call it "Zionism," as many do, but ultimately, it was GOD who so moved these early pioneers of Israeli statehood to pursue a modern Isra'el!
You may call it "luck" that they were able to defeat so many enemies who were poised to wipe them off the map and "drive them into the sea," but in reality, there's no such thing as "luck" or "fortune"; it is all in God's PROVIDENCE! HE is the One who has been "declaring the end from the beginning!" (Isa. 46:10) Look at any map of the Middle East or globe of the world! Have you counted all the Islamic states around Isra'el? They are an Oasis of freedom in a desert of bondage to a false god!
No, it's not the cunning of men nor is it blind, dumb luck! IT IS GOD'S STRONG, RIGHT HAND, and the sooner you accept that, the sooner you will quit blaspheming (belittling) God's power!
Furthermore, this is hardly off-topic! Don't you know that Yeshua` said when He would return? Look at Matt. 23:37-39 CAREFULLY!
Matt 23:37-39
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
KJV
Do you think Paul idly said what he did in Romans 11?
Rom 11:13-15, 23-29
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh (i.e., Israel), and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? (Resurrection!!!)
.....
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
KJV
Never discount God's love for His people! He will yet rescue them for "the fathers' sakes" (i.e., for the sakes of Avraham, Yitschak, Ya`acov, Moshe, Daviyd, Shlomo, etc.) and even for HIS OWN NAME'S SAKE!
Ezek 36:22-28
22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
KJV
While it is true that all human beings everywhere must now come to the Father through the blood of His Son, it is NOT true that God no longer holds Isra'el in high regard! They are His Son's FAMILY, His Son's blood relatives: cousins how ever far removed or numbered! He "came unto His own!" (John 1:11) "Salvation is of (from) the JEWS!" (John 4:22) He was not "sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel!" (Matt. 15:24)
Consider the words of Paul, the missionary to the Gentiles:
Rom 3:1
3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
KJV
Now, some Christians today would rashly answer, "None; we're all on a level playing field now." But, that's not what Paul said!
Rom 3:2-4
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles (the prophecies) of God.
KJV
They are "the People of the Book!"
Now, in closing, please understand, cow451, not all of this tirade is against you. I don't know all of your feelings and beliefs on this issue; however, what you were saying about the modern state of Isra'el just touched a nerve, and most of this is for the encouragement of all!
Isra'el should have a special place in each and every Christian's heart, because to do so would be emulating your Father; Isra'el has a special place in HIS heart, too!
Retrobyter
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RE: For those that think the end is near. - 7/17/2008 1:03:46 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3984
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Retrobyter
Now, in closing, please understand, cow451, not all of this tirade is against you. I don't know all of your feelings and beliefs on this issue; however, what you were saying about the modern state of Isra'el just touched a nerve, and most of this is for the encouragement of all!
Isra'el should have a special place in each and every Christian's heart, because to do so would be emulating your Father; Isra'el has a special place in HIS heart, too!
Retrobyter
Well, not being a Dispensationalist, I am disinclined to interpret every positive Israeli action as driven by divine wind.
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Wenn Sie so intelligent sind, warum Sie hier sind?
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RE: For those that think the end is near. - 7/17/2008 10:50:55 PM
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Retrobyter
Posts: 394
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: Retrobyter
Now, in closing, please understand, cow451, not all of this tirade is against you. I don't know all of your feelings and beliefs on this issue; however, what you were saying about the modern state of Isra'el just touched a nerve, and most of this is for the encouragement of all!
Isra'el should have a special place in each and every Christian's heart, because to do so would be emulating your Father; Isra'el has a special place in HIS heart, too!
Retrobyter
Well, not being a Dispensationalist, I am disinclined to interpret every positive Israeli action as driven by divine wind.
Shalom, cow451.
Who said I was a dispensationalist? I know several independent Baptists who are dispensationalists, but I long ago rejected that stance. In the first place, I don't feel that the Scriptures support it, and in the second place, IMO, it doesn't make theological sense for an infinite, eternal, and unchanging God to alter His requirements of human beings in different time frames.
The key for me was when one of my Bible college professors said, "In every 'dispensation,' God always saved men in the same way: by grace, by faith, through blood."
Secondly, it's not about "every positive Israeli action" being "driven by divine wind"! It's that EVERY action, positive or negative, Israeli or otherwise, is driven by the Divine Wind (Spirit)!
To quote an unknown source, "Has it ever occurred to you that nothing ever has occurred to God?" In all that we do, nothing ever takes God by surprise! He is "declaring the end from the beginning."
Give Him ALL the glory! He IS omnipotent! He IS omniscient!
Retrobyter
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RE: For those that think the end is near. - 7/19/2008 3:22:40 PM
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McFatty
Posts: 1084
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Augusta, GA
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So the people who argue the opposite point are doing so because God drives them to do it?
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“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: For those that think the end is near. - 7/30/2008 10:55:22 AM
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labellavita
Posts: 7
Joined: 7/28/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: nickie18
Also, the jews did'nt belive that Jesus was there Messiah because 1, they belive that he is suppose to be the blood son of Joseph, or David. I don't really rember.
So, that would have to mean that the Anti-Christ has to be a decindent, of one of those 2.
Sorry, I've been have problems lately and I need to get back on track with God. Which I'm planning on doing, and doing right now.
They didn't believe that Jesus was the Messiah, because he wasn't blood, in there eyes.
Sorry, I just posted a huge reply, I could go on and on.
If anyone has any information, or have been reading something, please let me, know.
I like to keep track everything.
well, some DID believe He was the Messiah, some didn't. And due to the church's massive punishment of the Jews and demands that they gave up their Jewishness, many had become ultra-resistant, and who could blame them. Nothing was wrong with their Jewish customs, many forget but Jesus was a Jew, He did exactly what they all did - He wore tzit tzit, He kept the Sabbath (He called Himself Lord of the Sabbath), He honored the Lord's feasts and festivals, so there is NOTHING wrong with those things, we are to model ourselves after Jesus, the problem was some did not believe, and then the church persecuted them. Sounds pretty loving. :-(
Some think Jesus will return in oh about 7-10 years (no exact dates given), but there is much tied to God's holy feasts and festivals, as they are layered w/ prophecy. Time will tell of course, but a lot is happening and is about to happen. If we have a global financial market collapse, that would be a great time to introduce a one world govt to try to get out of that muck, so much more!
Israel became a nation in 1948 and those of that generation are to see His return. So things will probably go downhill pretty quick.
Obey Him, love Him...
< Message edited by labellavita -- 7/30/2008 11:06:04 AM >
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RE: For those that think the end is near. - 7/30/2008 11:00:04 AM
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labellavita
Posts: 7
Joined: 7/28/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
Incredible things have happened in every generation. Some thought the destruction of the temple in 70 AD was a sign of the end. Some thought the muslim takeover of Jerusalem. Some thought the four crusades might be the signs. Now some think it's all these things. Think what you will, but it really doesn't change how we as Christians ought to live our lives. We shouldn't be so stuck on this thought about the end that we neglect the rest of God's work and God's word.
and some thought the end of the world was WWI, some thought it was WWII, but the problem is people not knowing scripture. Things that needed to happen hadn't happened yet, like Israel becoming a nation.
Jesus was the Word made flesh, what was the Word? The Word that Jesus taught is the Torah as the NT hadn't been written yet. Live a lawful life, LOVE Him, love your neighbor.
"If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love. John 15:10
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RE: For those that think the end is near. - 7/30/2008 12:16:18 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1722
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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quote:
Jesus was the Word made flesh, what was the Word? The Word that Jesus taught is the Torah as the NT hadn't been written yet. Live a lawful life, LOVE Him, love your neighbor.
Jesus is not Scripture. Scripture is not God. When John uses o logos in John 1, he is not using it in the same way that it is when describing Scripture.
Anyhow, I'm unsure what point you're trying to make here as it related to the end-times.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: For those that think the end is near. - 8/10/2008 6:13:15 PM
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TheDayDrawsNigh
Posts: 22
Joined: 3/11/2007
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A few years ago I would have had to agree with those that say "Christ is returning as a thief in the night" and "No man can know the day or the hour" as I also had not had my spiritual eyes opened yet to what God says in 1Thes5:4 (Concerning the 'Thief in the night' concept God taught spoken of in verse 2) "But ye,brethren,are not in darkness, that that 'day' should overtake you as a thief."
We know that from the book of Daniel that many things God was talking about would be 'hidden' till the last days just before Christs' return (Dan 12:4 & verse 9-10) God has explained that a true believers eyes should be fixed on the return of Christ (2Pet 3:12) and the things of God and that as in Ecclesiastes 8:5-6 "Whoso keepeth the commandment shall feel no evil thing; and a wise man's heart discerneth both time and judgement. Because to every purpose there is time and judgement, therefore the misery of man is great upon him."
Because the return of Christ is synonomous with the judgement of God upon the world we should know what is going on around us as we see things changing drastically around us. Most notabley in the churches where the law/judgements preset by God are being trmpled down as Women are preaching (When the Bible forbids it as in 1 Cor 14:34-35, 1Tim 2:10-12) Divorse is not only allowed but even encouraged often in light of Mark 10:11-12 and Luke 16:18 (Which is Gods last word on the matter!) and the teaching of certain verses like that of 2 Thessalonians 2:4 and Matthew 24 and 1Peter 4:17 are avoided all together.
Gods word in most churches are nothing more than a group of writings by early followers of Jesus and their opinions when verses like what we find in Romans 1 come up at the Sunday service. In large they don't respect other verses like 2 Peter 1:21, Luke 1:70 and 2 Timothy 3:16 that clearly teach that the Bible in it's original languages is the word of God alone without any mistake of man and should be used to correct ourselves to make sure we have it right. NO churches do that! They are all happy and content with their present understandings and beliefs in light of the fact that all the denominations have disagreements which can't all be of the same understanding and therefore do not want to be corrected! The law of God is the WHOLE Bible and you can't pick and chose what you want to follow and throw the rest away. You must weigh all of what you understand and believe in light of the WHOLE Bible and if you see that something the Bible states, for instance, that there is ONE baptism (as in Ephesians 4:5) that is REQUIRED for salvation then we should be asking ourself "Is that with water as John the baptist did or with the Holy Spirit as John the Baptist talked about in John 1:33?"
We will see that indeed the baptism we MUST have in order to be SAVED IS the baptism of the holy spirit that only God can do (Lest it be of any works of man Ephesiand 2:9) that and we would NEVER tell someone that they can NEVER be saved without water baptism! (And we KNOW the thief on the cross wasn't baptised in water!) So in this example we can see how ALL the churches have set up their 'High Places' and God said he will end them in the end as in Ezekial 6:3-6.
The problem is that these people don't see the spiritual things of God. They will see 'Israel' here in Ezekial and say "Oh, that was then. This is now and Israel is over there....." and not know that God has named the New Church that he stood up after the destruction of Israel back in 70AD 'Israel' as we know from verses that call these new believers in the early Church, JEWS! As we see in Romans 2:29 and we see there is an Israel in Gods eyes which IS NOT a literal land or nation as we know it but a spiritual country comprising of those God is saving as we see clearly in Romans 9:6. So we SHOULD be corrected in our thinking by the Bible when we read it HONESTLY and OPENLY will to be corrected and then COME TO TRUTH. Unfortunately for the Churches the intentions of God in our day are much of the same intentions and judgements God has for the 'Literal' land and country of Israel back in the day when Jesus walked this Earth.
So with this, and the fact that sin is getting to the point to where even the most sensitive mind is no longer moved by the depth and utterly unGodliness of it all is evidence that this world is being set up for the destruction God speaks of in 2nd Peter. God tells us as in 2 Timothy 3:13 that evil we get worse and worse towards the end of time. Well, we are here now!
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RE: For those that think the end is near. - 8/12/2008 3:30:09 PM
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wreid77
Posts: 26
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Only the Father knows the day or the hour. Mark 13:32
It could be today (if necessary prophecy had all been fulfilled) or tomorrow or another 100 years from now.
Regardless of when exactly Jesus returns our duty is to keep working and keep praying for and expecting His return.
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RE: For those that think the end is near. - 8/24/2008 9:50:00 PM
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TheDayDrawsNigh
Posts: 22
Joined: 3/11/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wreid77
Only the Father knows the day or the hour. Mark 13:32
It could be today (if necessary prophecy had all been fulfilled) or tomorrow or another 100 years from now.
Regardless of when exactly Jesus returns our duty is to keep working and keep praying for and expecting His return.
Wow! You say this right after I quote 1 Thessalonians 5:4 that is refering to Christ returning as a 'Thief in the Night' as verse 2 clearly tells us that and says "But ye; brethren, are not in darkness, that that day (WHAT day? The day Christ returns as a "Thief in the Night") should overtake YOU as a thief"
In other words, when a saved person is very serious about understanding and obeying Gods word he will be 'Watching' (Verse 6) and keeping his eyes on the gospel as God removes the seal of the last days he made Daniel put on the revelation he gave him. (Daniel 12:4) God will be removing that seal in the hearts of those he saves and they WILL know the very day when he returns and warn the world. The Bible calls Noah a 'Preacher' in 2 Peter 2:5. He told Noah 120 years before the flood that all flesh would be wiped off the face of the earth in 120 days and to build the Ark.
The Bible condemns 'watchmen' who see the enemy (Of the world, it's God) comming and do nothing. We have the example of Jonah and verses like in Ezekiel 33:6 and Isaiah 56:10 where we can see how God handles these people. We can know for sure that Noah was warning people for 120 years and especially the 7 days before the flood as God told him 7 days beforehand it was comming. And what did the people do? Well you should know, they scoffed and ridiculed him till the waters were raising under their feet.
Now God parallels the days of Noah with the same day Christ returns in saying in other words, they will be living as if everything's just fine. Eating, drinking and marrying till the very day he returns.
How can this be the same thing or even compairable unless these people should have known better just as the people of Noahs' day? The warning of March 21,2011 has been made but most people think this person to be a cooke. But his book, 'We are almost there' has many undeniable facts and will most likely become very well known in the next few years. This book isn't a personal prediction, but a tabulation of time and judgements along with many other biblical 'coincidences (?) that point directly at that date.
The Bible tells us that when so called Christains say "Peace and safety", THEN sudden destruction comes upon them. (1 Thes 5:3) This sudden destruction will be both literal and spiritual as the Earthquake that God speaks of in Rev 6:12 (for instance) takes place as Jesus takes away (Thieves, if you will...) the true believers from the earth. This is the rapture. But those who are raptured will not be unaware according to what God is telling us here. He says plainly in verse 4 of 1 Thes 5 that for the true believer, that DAY will NOT come upon them as a thief. They were watching, studying scripture knowing 'This is God speaking to me' and last of all, they will be telling the world the day Christ will return, and just as God predicts, it will be like the days of Noah........Not too many people will believe it and they will say to themselves "I KNOW he's comming as a thief in the night and no man knows the day or hour, so I'm at peace with God and safe" Then they will see they were ALL together wrong when it's too late. Then there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth!!! These will be the "Children of the Kingdom" (Mat 8:12) Those who were so safe in their churches that they refused to obey 2 Cor 6:17 and Mat 24:15-18 and described in 2 Thes 2 and Isaiah 52:11-12.
Because these people, especially those in the Churches wouldn't pay attention to these warnings and hardened their hearts God says he will send them a 'Strong Delusion' as he allows Satan to be their God with signs and wonders because they were never really saved and just by looking at the popular church beliefs, you can see they ALL have works gospels and we must be at that time.
The problem is that these works gospels won't allow the person who is under that authority to read and understand it the way God intended. They can only see things in a carnal way. They believe and teach that some man will come along called 'The Antichrist" completely fooled by the fact the 'Antichrist' is Satan himself and that Jesus will return to this sin cursed earth to rule, for whatever reason, even though the Bible clearly states this present world is NOT where Jesus's kingdom will be (John 18:36)
So why they rest their trust in these 2 events, thinking, "This hasn't happened yet (and never will!!!) I'm a believer and have been baptised and done this or that and have dreams and visions, go to church regularly and 'things happen to me that PROVE to me that I'm at peace and safe with God", the truth that they were looking for were actually all delusions! The truth is we CAN know the day Christ returns and can know with 100% certainty that the Bible is speaking spiritually on these matters and not literaly, but the question is: Will we read the Bible with reverence to Christ trusting this IS Gods word to us and ask him to teach and correct us when we're wrong?
This REALLY can feel like an unsafe and unpeaceful place to be because just as Jesus said "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and MANY there be which go thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it"
I'm sure you've heard the 'ol addage "Safety in numbers"? (Is it REALLY?)
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RE: For those that think the end is near. - 9/1/2008 12:03:57 PM
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Retrobyter
Posts: 394
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
Status: offline
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Shalom, McFatty!
quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
So the people who argue the opposite point are doing so because God drives them to do it?
...or He knew they were going to argue the opposite point and decided to create them anyway because they fit into His Plan!
Retrobyter
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RE: For those that think the end is near. - 9/1/2008 1:05:04 PM
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Retrobyter
Posts: 394
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
Status: offline
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Shalom, MrFribbles
quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
Jesus was the Word made flesh, what was the Word? The Word that Jesus taught is the Torah as the NT hadn't been written yet. Live a lawful life, LOVE Him, love your neighbor.
Jesus is not Scripture. Scripture is not God. When John uses o logos in John 1, he is not using it in the same way that it is when describing Scripture.
Anyhow, I'm unsure what point you're trying to make here as it related to the end-times.
Eau contraire, mon frere! Yeshua` (Jesus) is the very EMBODIMENT of the Scriptures! Not only did He use the Scriptures to answer His opponents, any time that He SPOKE, His words BECAME Scripture! He was "writing" Scripture as He taught His students! All of His actions FULFILLED the Tanakh (the OT Scriptures)! Over 400 prophecies about the Messiah came true in His First Advent alone, and most of them in the last 3-1/2 years before His death and resurrection! Ironically, He is not called ho logos theou for nothing!
Furthermore, in other scriptures that talk about "the Word of God," one could easily substitute "Yeshua`" (or "Jesus") in place of those words and the verses would still make sense! For instance, consider the following verses:
1 Thess 2:13
13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
KJV
1 Tim 4:4-5
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
KJV
2 Tim 2:8-9
8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.
KJV
Heb 11:3
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
KJV
1 Peter 1:23
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which [who] liveth and abideth for ever.
KJV
2 Peter 3:5-6
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
KJV
1 John 2:14
14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
KJV
Rev 1:1-2
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
KJV
Rev 19:13
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
KJV
These are just a few of the occurrences, but you should be able to see that substitution of "Jesus" in any one of these verses for the words "the word of God" would not do damage to the Scriptures! In fact, in some cases it clears up misunderstanding of the verse!
Now, I wouldn't presume to speak for labellavita, but if I were making the point, I would be saying that Yeshua` (Jesus) is the very embodiment of the Tanakh, the OT Scriptures! He KNEW His Father's mind implicitly and explicitly! How else would you suppose He knew so much as to dumbfound the rabbis, priests, and teachers in the Temple when He was but 12 years old?
Therefore, He also knows quite well His Father's mind about the prophecies, too! He not only knows the prophecies, He knows HOW they will be fulfilled (even if He didn't know WHEN). And, He looks forward to their fulfillment with GREAT ANTICIPATION! As my pappy used to say, "He's chompin' at the bit!" (A reference to a race horse's eagerness to get started.) So, we don't NEED to know when He will return; we just need to be confident that He will return and return soon! We, on the other hand, are not told to set dates or make rash claims; we are told to BE ALERT and to WATCH, knowing that there will be INDICATORS of His return! Those INDICATORS ("SIGNS"), I believe, are what Gentile Christians will often miss, especially in the OT, because Gentile Christians SELDOM read the OT for anything more than "spiritual instruction" these days, or because so many of them think of the OT as being re-applied to the Church instead of to Isra'el!
Anyway, that's my take.
Retrobyter
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RE: For those that think the end is near. - 9/1/2008 1:28:09 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1722
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
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quote:
any time that He SPOKE, His words BECAME Scripture!
Not quite. There were apparently many times He spoke that are not recorded. John tells us as much.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: For those that think the end is near. - 9/1/2008 1:39:34 PM
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Retrobyter
Posts: 394
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
Status: offline
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Shalom, TheDayDrawsNigh.
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheDayDrawsNigh
quote:
ORIGINAL: wreid77
Only the Father knows the day or the hour. Mark 13:32
It could be today (if necessary prophecy had all been fulfilled) or tomorrow or another 100 years from now.
Regardless of when exactly Jesus returns our duty is to keep working and keep praying for and expecting His return.
Wow! You say this right after I quote 1 Thessalonians 5:4 that is refering to Christ returning as a 'Thief in the Night' as verse 2 clearly tells us that and says "But ye; brethren, are not in darkness, that that day (WHAT day? The day Christ returns as a "Thief in the Night") should overtake YOU as a thief"
In other words, when a saved person is very serious about understanding and obeying Gods word he will be 'Watching' (Verse 6) and keeping his eyes on the gospel as God removes the seal of the last days he made Daniel put on the revelation he gave him. (Daniel 12:4) God will be removing that seal in the hearts of those he saves and they WILL know the very day when he returns and warn the world. The Bible calls Noah a 'Preacher' in 2 Peter 2:5. He told Noah 120 years before the flood that all flesh would be wiped off the face of the earth in 120 days and to build the Ark.
The Bible condemns 'watchmen' who see the enemy (Of the world, it's God) comming and do nothing. We have the example of Jonah and verses like in Ezekiel 33:6 and Isaiah 56:10 where we can see how God handles these people. We can know for sure that Noah was warning people for 120 years and especially the 7 days before the flood as God told him 7 days beforehand it was comming. And what did the people do? Well you should know, they scoffed and ridiculed him till the waters were raising under their feet.
Now God parallels the days of Noah with the same day Christ returns in saying in other words, they will be living as if everything's just fine. Eating, drinking and marrying till the very day he returns.
How can this be the same thing or even compairable unless these people should have known better just as the people of Noahs' day? The warning of March 21,2011 has been made but most people think this person to be a cooke. But his book, 'We are almost there' has many undeniable facts and will most likely become very well known in the next few years. This book isn't a personal prediction, but a tabulation of time and judgements along with many other biblical 'coincidences (?) that point directly at that date.
The Bible tells us that when so called Christains say "Peace and safety", THEN sudden destruction comes upon them. (1 Thes 5:3) This sudden destruction will be both literal and spiritual as the Earthquake that God speaks of in Rev 6:12 (for instance) takes place as Jesus takes away (Thieves, if you will...) the true believers from the earth. This is the rapture. But those who are raptured will not be unaware according to what God is telling us here. He says plainly in verse 4 of 1 Thes 5 that for the true believer, that DAY will NOT come upon them as a thief. They were watching, studying scripture knowing 'This is God speaking to me' and last of all, they will be telling the world the day Christ will return, and just as God predicts, it will be like the days of Noah........Not too many people will believe it and they will say to themselves "I KNOW he's comming as a thief in the night and no man knows the day or hour, so I'm at peace with God and safe" Then they will see they were ALL together wrong when it's too late. Then there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth!!! These will be the "Children of the Kingdom" (Mat 8:12) Those who were so safe in their churches that they refused to obey 2 Cor 6:17 and Mat 24:15-18 and described in 2 Thes 2 and Isaiah 52:11-12.
Because these people, especially those in the Churches wouldn't pay attention to these warnings and hardened their hearts God says he will send them a 'Strong Delusion' as he allows Satan to be their God with signs and wonders because they were never really saved and just by looking at the popular church beliefs, you can see they ALL have works gospels and we must be at that time.
The problem is that these works gospels won't allow the person who is under that authority to read and understand it the way God intended. They can only see things in a carnal way. They believe and teach that some man will come along called 'The Antichrist" completely fooled by the fact the 'Antichrist' is Satan himself and that Jesus will return to this sin cursed earth to rule, for whatever reason, even though the Bible clearly states this present world is NOT where Jesus's kingdom will be (John 18:36)
So why they rest their trust in these 2 events, thinking, "This hasn't happened yet (and never will!!!) I'm a believer and have been baptised and done this or that and have dreams and visions, go to church regularly and 'things happen to me that PROVE to me that I'm at peace and safe with God", the truth that they were looking for were actually all delusions! The truth is we CAN know the day Christ returns and can know with 100% certainty that the Bible is speaking spiritually on these matters and not literaly, but the question is: Will we read the Bible with reverence to Christ trusting this IS Gods word to us and ask him to teach and correct us when we're wrong?
This REALLY can feel like an unsafe and unpeaceful place to be because just as Jesus said "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and MANY there be which go thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it"
I'm sure you've heard the 'ol addage "Safety in numbers"? (Is it REALLY?)
When you said, "The warning of March 21,2011 has been made but most people think this person to be a cooke. But his book, 'We are almost there' has many undeniable facts and will most likely become very well known in the next few years. This book isn't a personal prediction, but a tabulation of time and judgements along with many other biblical 'coincidences (?) that point directly at that date," my gut reaction was to say, "What do I care about March 21, 2011??!!! Yeshua` could return on September 2, 2008! or even September 1, 2008!!!
You may CLAIM that this isn't a "personal prediction" and is only a "tabulation of time and judgments along with many other biblical coincidences," but the truth is the author SET A DATE!!! EVERY PERSON who has ever set a date HAS BEEN WRONG!
For some believers, the date being wrong is no great problem. They just rest assured that Yeshua` WILL return, although we don't know when.
HOWEVER, others, having been led to believe in the date so strongly, are DEVASTATED by the failure! Their faith is shattered and they struggle with believing what ANYONE has to say about the Second Coming! THIS is why we are not to set dates! We are to be loving to those of weaker faith, and it's not very loving to leave them without an anchor in GOD'S truth!
You're right about one thing: the book We Are Almost There WILL become "very well known in the next few years." The question remains, though, "What will become of those who trusted that book?"
Retrobyter
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RE: For those that think the end is near. - 9/1/2008 1:42:53 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1722
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
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quote:
You may CLAIM that this isn't a "personal prediction" and is only a "tabulation of time and judgments along with many other biblical coincidences," but the truth is the author SET A DATE!!! EVERY PERSON who has ever set a date HAS BEEN WRONG!
For some believers, the date being wrong is no great problem. They just rest assured that Yeshua` WILL return, although we don't know when.
HOWEVER, others, having been led to believe in the date so strongly, are DEVASTATED by the failure! Their faith is shattered and they struggle with believing what ANYONE has to say about the Second Coming! THIS is why we are not to set dates! We are to be loving to those of weaker faith, and it's not very loving to leave them without an anchor in GOD'S truth!
You're right about one thing: the book We Are Almost There WILL become "very well known in the next few years." The question remains, though, "What will become of those who trusted that book?"
An excellent response, and one I most heartily agree with. When Jesus said only the Father knows the day and the hour, He wasn't kidding around!
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: For those that think the end is near. - 9/2/2008 2:43:50 AM
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cog41
Posts: 616
Joined: 7/16/2006
From: The Great State of Texas
Status: offline
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This thread has a tendency to go to left field,run around the warning track,chase a rabbit and then return to homeplate.
One thing sure about the end, we are closer today than we were yesterday.
_____________________________
Psalm 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: "May they prosper who love you."
Hook'em Horns! Roll Tide!
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RE: For those that think the end is near. - 9/2/2008 2:18:55 PM
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cow451
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