RE: Contradiction? Luke 23:43: "Today you will be with me in Paradise."
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RE: Contradiction? Luke 23:43: "Today you will be ... - 7/2/2008 9:34:22 AM
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Resurrected
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezra
quote:
When Jesus said today you will be with me in Paradise, He was not referring to heaven. He was referring to Abrahams Bosom.
This is the correct interpretation, and there is no need to change the punctuation.
Before the ascension of Christ, Paradise was a section of Sheol or Hades, which is in "the lower parts of the earth" (Eph. 4:9) or "the heart of the earth" (Mt. 12:40). Sheol (Heb) or Hades (Gk) is the place of departed souls. The righteous dead went to "Abraham's Bosom", whereas the unrighteous were simply suffering in Hades (Lk.16:19-31).
To this day, the unrighteous dead go to Hades to await their final judgement at the Great White Throne, when "death and Hades (hell) will be cast into the Lake of Fire" (Rev. 20:14). The righteous dead now go directly to Heaven (Acts 7:59; 2Cor. 5:8).
When Christ prophesied that He would be "in the heart of the earth" three days and three nights, His soul and spirit were there while His body lay in the tomb. He did indeed fulfil His promise to the dying thief, who was justified by faith and thus numbered with the righteous. This man's soul and spirit also went the same day to Abraham's bosom. Thus Christ did descended into "hell", but this "hell" is really Hades, as a reading of the Greek text will show (Acts 2:27.31).
However, at the resurrection and ascension of Christ, Jesus "led captivity captive" (Eph. 4:8,9). He took all the righteous dead with Him to Heaven (the New Jerusalem to be precise) and they became "the spirits of of just [ified] men made perfect" (Heb. 12:23). Which also means that Abraham's Bosom, or Paradise is now "the Paradise of God" in the New Jerusalem (Rev. 2:7;22:2).
Thus there is no contradiction here or anywhere else in Scripture. We simply need to dig a little deeper. Paul specifically states "Now that He ascended, what is it but that also descended FIRST into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that He might fill all things" (Eph. 4:9,10).
This is good. Thank you for taking the time to answer the question fully.
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RE: Contradiction? Luke 23:43: "Today you will be ... - 7/2/2008 6:48:09 PM
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figmentPez
Posts: 2088
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: TX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
quote:
Didn't Jesus visit "hell" too? I think one of the creeds says that, but I'm not really sure if He did or not.
The Apostle's Creed says that Jesus Christ "was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended into hell."
The "hell" in question here is NOT a place of torment. It is death and the realm of the dead. It is the equivalent of the Greek Hades or the Hebrew Sheol. Jesus Christ died and was dead for three days. It is absolutely correct to say that Jesus Christ was in "hell", as long as we use "hell" to refer to the realm of the dead. Jesus Christ was where the righteous dead go before they are resurrected.
However, the more modern usage of the word "hell" refers to the second death, the lake of fire, eternal torment. Jesus Christ did not go to this other "hell". Jesus Christ did not suffer the second death, He did not suffer in the lake of fire, and He was not tormented while He was dead. His sufferings were on the cross, and finished then.
_____________________________
I make this challenge to all Christians:
Read Daniel 7:13-14
And tell me: Who do you say that the Son of Man is?
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RE: Contradiction? Luke 23:43: "Today you will be ... - 7/2/2008 6:49:52 PM
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figmentPez
Posts: 2088
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: TX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
Can you give reference for hell being eternal?
What "hell" are you talking about? Are you talking about Hades? Then, no, that's not eternal. The first death is not eternal. However, the second death is. Those who die the second death will suffer that second death forever.
_____________________________
I make this challenge to all Christians:
Read Daniel 7:13-14
And tell me: Who do you say that the Son of Man is?
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RE: Contradiction? Luke 23:43: "Today you will be ... - 7/2/2008 9:08:36 PM
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turtleman
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Joined: 7/14/2007
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Ezra is right paradise and heaven are two different places. Jesus plainly said no man comes to the father but by me. Paradise is were the righteous dead went to await the coming of Christ. When he arose he not only took the keys to death , hell, and the grave, but also the first fruits. In other words the righteous who had died before his coming.
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just a few simple thoughts
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