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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 7/4/2008 11:45:40 AM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3429
Joined: 4/11/2005
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Um, not many would have out-ranked my husband. I never said it was my choice???????????? What is your rank? Are you a homosexual in the Military. If so no comdenation, just be careful. I do think many men would not follow a homosexual leader. There is a code of honor in the military, and a leader must have respect, and like it or not men do not respect ( homosexual men) right, or wrong it is just the way things are.
They have a hard time respecting women officers, in most cases. I believe things are changing in this area, but still the status Quo exsist.
Now this has nothing to do with me,my husband, or the miltary. I do take offense at your ignorance, arrogance, and personal attacks. Something tells me my husband has BDU'S older than you. Back to the subject Obama was taught homosexuality is right, for twenty years. This goes aginst the word of God, and well if you say you were a Chaplin, I hope you would know this, I am a childrens SS teacher, they know it is sin. You can spin it, ingnorance, arrogance whatever in defense of Obama. Just do not personaly attack me or my husband again, defending the one you seem to make excuses for. Got it? Now we can start over, take the high road act in the manner both of us know we should as those who love the Lord. In the love of Christ, Light. BTW, I will let him respond to your question about his actions, that is the fair thing to do, otherwise, you are back bitting and slandering him. I will tell him and let him face his accuser.
< Message edited by lightshineon -- 7/4/2008 11:54:30 AM >
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 7/4/2008 12:41:53 PM
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PhunkD
Posts: 179
Joined: 2/17/2008
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Ok. Fair enough. Start over.
I believe that it do not believe that the commander in chief's attitudes or policies should be subject to the opinions of the soliders he or she commands. Honor requires them to obey, even if/when they disagree. Many soldiers do not like the current war, but they still must serve because of the their honor and their oath. The same would be true if they had a gay person in command, or a woman, or whatever.
I am positive that at one point there were white soldiers that could not stand being under the command of a black person, but they dealt with it, and if they did not, the military dealt with them.
While homosexuality may be a sin, the sin of your commander does not allow you to disobey him or her. Otherwise, there would be no order.
If Obama is elected, the military will do what he says, because that is how our country works.
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 7/4/2008 1:41:29 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3429
Joined: 4/11/2005
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PhunkD
I have asked my wife to relay my response to this whole situation through this thread.
I being somewhat opportunistic am glad that you chose to bring up the issue of gays in the military, murder among other things today. It is certainly not lost on me, or I am sure lost on many others that we are celebrating Independence Day today.
In this country we celebrate having the opportunity to express ourselves, having the ability to travel freely, even live different lifetyles without fear or retribution. The entire reason that we celebrate such freedom in our country is because we have over the course of the last 232 years sacrificed our sons and daughters to defend ourselves against those entities who would like to have it otherwise. My grandfather, who was in the second wave at Iwo Jima and shed blood upon it's volcanic soil is among those who have paid a price in the defense of this country and it's grand idea of freedom. I have known the mothers and fathers of those soldiers who paid the highest price, but who are all but forgotten for their sacrifice in World War I and World War II, Korea, Vietnam and so on. Their hearts still greive with the heaviness of their sacrifice, yet their convictions in that the defense of freedom has no measurable price was still intact as they more than anyone else knew that their loved ones did not die in vain. I have served with fellow soldiers who no longer draw breath but indeed join the ranks of the brave souls who sacrificed themselves for the freedom of all. My heart is heavy now as I think of them all and their sacrifice. My heart is glad that they lived by a code which allowed them to make that sacrifice for the sake of all others within this great country.
I indeed have served with people whom I suspected were homosexuals. Some who were commanders. While I, as a Christian, do not approve of the lifestyle, I do not hate the person. Quite the contrary. I love the person, because I understand a portion of thier importance in God's eyes. No one has so little value as to be killed for their beliefs or lifestyle, even if I believed it were wrong. You see, as a military man I took an oath, yet I also live by a code. A code in which you respect the rank of the individual as a part of the overall institution and for which it stands. I also as a Christian, live by a code. A code of conduct ruled by the two greatest commandments. I believe that both are intertwined for me and the outcome of the living of these codes is honor, sacrifice, and obedience to my Lord in Heaven.
I only hope and pray that Obama upholds the sacrifices and beliefs of a nation full of people who have paid such a price and warrant the respect of a guarantee from their candidtate that they do not serve their own interests, but the interests of the country that they are attempting to represent. I hope that we as a nation can exercise the prudence in judgement to choose a candidate who indeed does uphold the values of the American People.
May God Bless and Keep You All.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 7/4/2008 1:58:53 PM
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PhunkD
Posts: 179
Joined: 2/17/2008
Status: offline
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Exactly the answer I expect (and want) from a military man and a Christian.
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 7/4/2008 2:40:51 PM
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saved9201
Posts: 715
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
PhunkD
I have asked my wife to relay my response to this whole situation through this thread.
I being somewhat opportunistic am glad that you chose to bring up the issue of gays in the military, murder among other things today. It is certainly not lost on me, or I am sure lost on many others that we are celebrating Independence Day today.
In this country we celebrate having the opportunity to express ourselves, having the ability to travel freely, even live different lifetyles without fear or retribution. The entire reason that we celebrate such freedom in our country is because we have over the course of the last 232 years sacrificed our sons and daughters to defend ourselves against those entities who would like to have it otherwise. My grandfather, who was in the second wave at Iwo Jima and shed blood upon it's volcanic soil is among those who have paid a price in the defense of this country and it's grand idea of freedom. I have known the mothers and fathers of those soldiers who paid the highest price, but who are all but forgotten for their sacrifice in World War I and World War II, Korea, Vietnam and so on. Their hearts still greive with the heaviness of their sacrifice, yet their convictions in that the defense of freedom has no measurable price was still intact as they more than anyone else knew that their loved ones did not die in vain. I have served with fellow soldiers who no longer draw breath but indeed join the ranks of the brave souls who sacrificed themselves for the freedom of all. My heart is heavy now as I think of them all and their sacrifice. My heart is glad that they lived by a code which allowed them to make that sacrifice for the sake of all others within this great country.
I indeed have served with people whom I suspected were homosexuals. Some who were commanders. While I, as a Christian, do not approve of the lifestyle, I do not hate the person. Quite the contrary. I love the person, because I understand a portion of thier importance in God's eyes. No one has so little value as to be killed for their beliefs or lifestyle, even if I believed it were wrong. You see, as a military man I took an oath, yet I also live by a code. A code in which you respect the rank of the individual as a part of the overall institution and for which it stands. I also as a Christian, live by a code. A code of conduct ruled by the two greatest commandments. I believe that both are intertwined for me and the outcome of the living of these codes is honor, sacrifice, and obedience to my Lord in Heaven.
I only hope and pray that Obama upholds the sacrifices and beliefs of a nation full of people who have paid such a price and warrant the respect of a guarantee from their candidtate that they do not serve their own interests, but the interests of the country that they are attempting to represent. I hope that we as a nation can exercise the prudence in judgement to choose a candidate who indeed does uphold the values of the American People.
May God Bless and Keep You All.
 That was awesome!
- Julius
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 7/4/2008 4:02:41 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3836
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PhunkD
As for the church, once upon a time, we would rather die than compromise our faith. Now, you say that we would compromise just because a president believes something different?
Maybe in your church. Certainly not mine. Frankly, any church that could be so easily influenced is not really a church.
What church is that?
John
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 7/4/2008 4:06:59 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3836
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PhunkD
I am trying to understand what you are talking about.
Would do you believe your husband would do if don't ask/don't tell were repealed and he had to serve under a gay man?
What do you think that other soldiers would do?
With all due respect, it is not up to the wife of an officer to decide who can serve. Ultimately, it is up to the commander-in-chief.
Actually since the Congress resides over the UCMJ they actually have a say in the manner as well...
John
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 7/4/2008 4:10:41 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3836
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PhunkD
While homosexuality may be a sin,
May????
quote:
If Obama is elected, the military will do what he says, because that is how our country works.
Another good reason not join...
John
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 7/4/2008 4:13:04 PM
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PhunkD
Posts: 179
Joined: 2/17/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: PhunkD
As for the church, once upon a time, we would rather die than compromise our faith. Now, you say that we would compromise just because a president believes something different?
Maybe in your church. Certainly not mine. Frankly, any church that could be so easily influenced is not really a church.
What church is that?
John
I spoke incorrectly here, as I believe that there is only one church.
But my denomination is presbyterian.
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 7/4/2008 4:15:55 PM
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PhunkD
Posts: 179
Joined: 2/17/2008
Status: offline
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We finally agree, John!
I don't think anybody should join, either.
And yes, I realize that the congress has a say, even if the president is chief.
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 7/4/2008 4:24:20 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3836
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PhunkD
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: PhunkD
As for the church, once upon a time, we would rather die than compromise our faith. Now, you say that we would compromise just because a president believes something different?
Maybe in your church. Certainly not mine. Frankly, any church that could be so easily influenced is not really a church.
What church is that?
John
I spoke incorrectly here, as I believe that there is only one church.
But my denomination is presbyterian.
quote:
presbyterian
The the Presbyterian Church of USA just lifted it's long-standing ban on the ordination of gays and lesbians...
John
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 7/4/2008 4:26:56 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3836
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PhunkD
We finally agree, John!
I don't think anybody should join, either.
And yes, I realize that the congress has a say, even if the president is chief.
Given they reside over the laws and hold the purse strings it's really amazing the President has the power he does...
John
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 7/4/2008 5:41:02 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3429
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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Well I stand corrected in saying my husband would not obey a homosexual commanding officer. That is my husband, but, not others who will kill, not respect or obey homosexuals in the military. There has been many hate crimes committed in the military due to this. I can also promise they will never make high rank. They should not either, men showering togather ect........, it just would cause many problems, and weaken our military system. I could see two gay men going to a military ball ( something I do not want to see.(Gross) Men will follow a leader they respect into battle. If they do not respect them they will not. Imagine if Maximus ( Gladiator) a gay one led the soldiers into battle, NOT. (LOL). I love homosexuals also, hate the sin, it is just unatural.
quote:
ORIGINAL: PhunkD
Exactly the answer I expect (and want) from a military man and a Christian.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 7/4/2008 6:32:39 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 721
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
Status: offline
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Great posts, Mr. & Mrs Lightshineon!
-Dave
_____________________________
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 7/4/2008 7:49:49 PM
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saved9201
Posts: 715
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
Imagine if Maximus ( Gladiator) a gay one led the soldiers into battle, NOT. (LOL).
Actually, lightshineon, Maximus (Russell Crowe), did play a gay man once in one of his early movies. I don't recall the title. I remember I was channel surfing one day, saw a young Crowe, said hmmmm, until I realized what it was about and changed the channel.
I also recall the scene from the spoof "Airplane" where the pilot, trying to come on to this young boy asks him, "Do you like gladiator movies?" I never quite understood that line.
On a side note, I believe there are far more gay women in the military than gay men. "Manly" females in the military aren't looked down upon as much as feminine acting males. Therefore, gay women servicemembers have been able to "fly under the radar" of suspicion for years.
- Julius
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 7/4/2008 10:37:18 PM
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PhunkD
Posts: 179
Joined: 2/17/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: PhunkD
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: PhunkD
As for the church, once upon a time, we would rather die than compromise our faith. Now, you say that we would compromise just because a president believes something different?
Maybe in your church. Certainly not mine. Frankly, any church that could be so easily influenced is not really a church.
What church is that?
John
I spoke incorrectly here, as I believe that there is only one church.
But my denomination is presbyterian.
quote:
presbyterian
The the Presbyterian Church of USA just lifted it's long-standing ban on the ordination of gays and lesbians...
John
I am aware of my denomination's decisions. They had nothing to do with the person who was president, or who might be president. I don't know of any denomination that bases its policy on who gets elected president.
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RE: Obama on Gay Rights - 7/4/2008 10:54:55 PM
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ta_mosquito
Posts: 11016
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
Status: offline
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
Please keep this thread on the topic of Obama's stance on gay rights. If you'd like to discuss homosexuals in the military, denominational stances of the issue of homosexuality, etc., please do so in THIS THREAD.
Also, please do not use our Community to in any way promote or advocate the acceptability of same-sex unions/marriage, homosexual activity, or homosexual adoption rights.
Thank you!
Tricia
Forums Moderator
Please do not reply to this message within the forums or chat.
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