|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/5/2008 3:38:52 PM
|
|
|
Marcus.
Posts: 1374
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
Create any scenario you want, the point is, unless you and/or your family's lives are in immediate danger, is it worth killing someone over?
No
Also Monday morning quarterbacking the situation without all the information (which the newspaper wouldn't have) is a disservice to the people involved. The police always hold some of the most pertinent info back for the investigation and court case.
_____________________________
Blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord.
Hosea Project Care Net
Google
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/5/2008 4:27:23 PM
|
|
|
rcjames
Posts: 4851
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
Create any scenario you want, the point is, unless you and/or your family's lives are in immediate danger, is it worth killing someone over?
Julius
OK, lets look at your proposal.
You say no forceful defense (or no defense, or no defense with extreme prejudice) unless you or your familly's lives or in danger.
Thugs break into your house and say they are just going to steal your electronics (no defense, or at least no estreme defense) should be offered?
They order you, your wife, and your children to sit down and be tied to the dining room chairs. (no defense or no estreme defense).
Then when you are indefensible they deside to rape your wife and daughters; then kill all of you so there is no witnesses.
What do you do then? Nothing; for it is far too late.
If thugs come through my door they will be shot and shot to be killed.
I think that is the protection I am obliged to furnish my family and myself.
Thsnks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/5/2008 4:54:13 PM
|
|
|
deliveredarling
Posts: 1454
Status: offline
|
Some of these nay saying responses are preposterous! Yes, let's just swat these criminals on the hand and tell them "Don't do it again", that will solve the problem!
If someone is in danger from a criminal, some of you expect s to stand there and allow our selves to be hurt or killed because it is the Christian thing to do?????
Excuse me, God gave you a brain, or maybe not some of you, if you won't use it to defend yourself and your family!
Discernment is required in these instances, it really isn't difficult. Kids cutting through your yard without permission, correct them once, call the police for second offense.
Thugs breaking into your home, call the police, if you have time before they shoot to kill you or shoot first and save your family. I would think that would be a no brainer for those who love and value their family members.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/5/2008 5:06:45 PM
|
|
|
solo_soprano22
Posts: 2282
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: I'm a Southern girl
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
Thugs breaking into your home, call the police, if you have time before they shoot to kill you or shoot first and save your family. I would think that would be a no brainer for those who love and value their family members.
People aren't saying that if you're physically theatened you shouldn't protect yourself and your family. Nobody broke into his home; he chose to go outside (probably putting himself in more harm's way) and was set that he would shoot them no matter what...even before the men exited his neighbor's home.
_____________________________
For God, For Learning, Forever.
"Sometimes I Wonder Why" (Blog entry)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/5/2008 6:26:47 PM
|
|
|
SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3448
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22
People aren't saying that if you're physically theatened
What constitutes being physically threatened?
quote:
he chose to go outside (probably putting himself in more harm's way)
So he should have cowered in the closet and hope they didn't come into his house?
John
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/5/2008 9:55:16 PM
|
|
|
saved9201
Posts: 571
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
Thugs breaking into your home, call the police, if you have time before they shoot to kill you or shoot first and save your family. I would think that would be a no brainer for those who love and value their family members.
People aren't saying that if you're physically theatened you shouldn't protect yourself and your family. Nobody broke into his home; he chose to go outside (probably putting himself in more harm's way) and was set that he would shoot them no matter what...even before the men exited his neighbor's home.
I notice they've chosen to ignore my scenario of kids trespassing, i.e. using a pool, vandalizing signs, etc, and chose to create their own about thugs breaking in and holding the wife and kids hostage, to make their point. Yet, no one has answered my questions which I believe were very pertinent. So I'll repeat them:
quote:
I wonder if the verdict, and the sentiment here in this thread would be the same had this been a couple of "hard working" rich white college kids killed, by, say, a black homeowner who claimed he was protecting his own or his neighbors property?
Would you still be cracking jokes and yucking it up and saying they got what they deserved?
quote:
How would some of you good ol' gun tottin' conservative Christian "scatter or splatter" advocates feel when you see the headline, "White teenager blown to bits by Muslim for trespassing in an African-American neighbors yard and attempting to remove an Obama sign"?
Can I take some shots at some trick or treaters this Halloween after I've warned them to "Git"? Who's to say what their intentions are? Dressed up like demons and such. How bout those kids who keep hitting their baseball in my backyard and climb my fence to get it. I'll bet if I fill one or two with lead they'll go out and find a vacant lot to play on. What if some really sick dude sets booby traps up in his yard to keep out trespassers? Or decides since the law's on his side, he can actually set some sort of "bait" out on his property to lure kids in so he can gun them down?
And I want y'all to imagine that all these kids are white kids, maybe some of your relatives. Also, imagine the shooter was a black guy, or better yet, a Middle Eastern Muslim. Because some people, not the good people of this forum but those folks in those forums down the street, have no problem cheering the deaths of illegal immigrants (strike one) who happened to be black (strikes two and three), and making a hero out of the good ol' boy who shot them.
-Julius
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/5/2008 10:05:35 PM
|
|
|
deliveredarling
Posts: 1454
Status: offline
|
quote:
I notice they've chosen to ignore my scenario of kids trespassing, i.e. using a pool, vandalizing signs, etc, and chose to create their own about thugs breaking in and holding the wife and kids hostage, to make their point. Yet, no one has answered my questions which I believe were very pertinent. So I'll repeat them:
I believe I did address it right here:
quote:
Discernment is required in these instances, it really isn't difficult. Kids cutting through your yard without permission, correct them once, call the police for second offense.
What I would really like to know, since it appears to recurring in the last few posts, is what difference does it make what color the skin is of the criminal? Who cares? A criminal is still a criminal regardless of their skin color.
I still say discernment is the key. I don't advocate the scatter and splatter mentality, however I do suggest the use of good judgment.
Julius, you have some kind of race issue going on? You sound kinf of prejudice, hardened too I might add.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/5/2008 11:49:01 PM
|
|
|
1love1God1way
Posts: 1999
Joined: 5/16/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
So he should have cowered in the closet and hope they didn't come into his house?
John
Yes.
The police were on their way to nab the burglars. They would have gotten caught, and received a punishment that was more pertaining to their crime than execution. . .
_____________________________
-Ben-
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/6/2008 12:21:21 AM
|
|
|
solo_soprano22
Posts: 2282
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: I'm a Southern girl
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
So he should have cowered in the closet and hope they didn't come into his house?
John
Yes.
The police were on their way to nab the burglars. They would have gotten caught, and received a punishment that was more pertaining to their crime than execution. . .
I think these guys were done and trying to flee altogether, but whether or not Mr. Horn hides (if they were to attempt to break in), he still didn't have to go outside to begin with. If he saw they were trying to get into his home (e.g. trying to break into a door, window, etc), I could see him shooting and being more in the right than what happened. They weren't trying to break into his house; he went out on his own and shot them. It seems as if (from the audio) that he's mad that they've broken into his neighbor's home, and is determined to shoot them... not because they're trying to do anything to him or threaten him, but because he's upset and wants to handle it his own way. He said at the beginning that he would shoot them... and at that point they weren't trying to get into his home, and as far as I know, they never did try to do so. He was set on doing it whether they were a threat directly to him or not. He did what he felt like doing.
< Message edited by solo_soprano22 -- 7/6/2008 12:31:15 AM >
_____________________________
For God, For Learning, Forever.
"Sometimes I Wonder Why" (Blog entry)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/6/2008 12:42:37 AM
|
|
|
Leon_Figg3
Posts: 530
Joined: 4/24/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
So he should have cowered in the closet and hope they didn't come into his house?
John
Yes.
The police were on their way to nab the burglars. They would have gotten caught, and received a punishment that was more pertaining to their crime than execution. . .
Where in the article does it clearly indicate that the men were executed?
Where, in any stories about the case has it been clearly laid out that the man executed the two men?
Yes, it says that the men were shot in the back. It also says that the men were approaching the shooter. The reporter did a terrible job relating what happened, or what was believed to have happened.
No one really knows what really happened. From all reports the man felt that he was in danger, and that he knew his rights as to what he could legally do in response to the threat he felt.
It is truely amasing the lengths and fantastic scenarios some people will come up and use to argue their case against the average citizen possessing the means to defend himself and/or his neighbors.
Are some of these scenarios possible? Yes, but not nearly as often as some here would have us believe, simply because someone has a firearm. States regulate gunownership to make sure that those who have a registered weapon know how to use it, and are able to use it in an intelligent manner.
If I may, I would like to relate a story some relatives of mine told me. These relatives lived in New Mexico on the edge of an oil field next to the town. Every once in a while the people who lived across the street from them would start firing their weapons into the oil field. In response, my relatives would call 911 and tell the police what was going and on what they were going to do about it (both relatives were members of the NRA and owned weapons). The police knew that they had about three seconds to get out to their place or there was going to be a "fire fight" between the two houses.
My relatives felt that they had to take such action because one stray bullet could have ignited that oil field and endangered the town.
My relatives never got in trouble, but the other family did until they decided to move out of town
< Message edited by Leon_Figg3 -- 7/6/2008 1:03:57 AM >
_____________________________
To whom much is given, much is expected. Luke 12:48
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/6/2008 1:02:10 AM
|
|
|
saved9201
Posts: 571
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
quote:
I notice they've chosen to ignore my scenario of kids trespassing, i.e. using a pool, vandalizing signs, etc, and chose to create their own about thugs breaking in and holding the wife and kids hostage, to make their point. Yet, no one has answered my questions which I believe were very pertinent. So I'll repeat them:
I believe I did address it right here:
quote:
Discernment is required in these instances, it really isn't difficult. Kids cutting through your yard without permission, correct them once, call the police for second offense.
What I would really like to know, since it appears to recurring in the last few posts, is what difference does it make what color the skin is of the criminal? Who cares? A criminal is still a criminal regardless of their skin color.
I still say discernment is the key. I don't advocate the scatter and splatter mentality, however I do suggest the use of good judgment.
Julius, you have some kind of race issue going on? You sound kinf of prejudice, hardened too I might add.
First of all, I wasn't addressing the post to you. I was addressing it to those who keep adding a bit of drama (thugs breaking in, holding family hostage) to the scenario I presented and to what actually happened in Texas. Of course if you or your family is threatened or your home is invaded and you have a weapon and know how to use it you should defend yourself and use deadly force if necessary.
Second, you still didn't answer the question. Yes, discernment is key, however, if someone feels "threatened" by certain types of people cutting across their lawn, do they have a right to shoot? And let's face it, maybe not you, but there are some who may feel more threatened by people of a certain darker complexion or of a certain nationality than others. A few years ago in Louisiana, an Asian exchange student dressed in Halloween garb went to the wrong person's house looking for a party he was invited to. The homeowner felt "threatened" and shot the kid. The homeowner was acquitted in that case too.
I think it's a legitimate question to ask, whether or not one thinks the verdict would have been different, the shooters actions would have been different, and the overriding sentiment here in a Christian forum would have been different had the people who lost their lives had been white kids. I'm not asking that question here because I have a "race issue." Nor am I accusing anyone here of being racist. I'm just trying to get people here to see things from a different perspective. Had these been white victims and the shooter had been black, and the black posters here had been applauding the shooter's actions, I'd be asking the same type of questions of them. You're right. It shouldn't make a difference the color of their skin. But does it?
Oh by the way. Calling me "prejudiced and hardened" isn't going to make me go away.
- Julius
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/6/2008 1:21:19 AM
|
|
|
Leon_Figg3
Posts: 530
Joined: 4/24/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
I think it's a legitimate question to ask, whether or not one thinks the verdict would have been different, the shooters actions would have been different, and the overriding sentiment here in a Christian forum would have been different had the people who lost their lives had been white kids. I'm not asking that question here because I have a "race issue." Nor am I accusing anyone here of being racist. I'm just trying to get people here to see things from a different perspective. Had these been white victims and the shooter had been black, and the black posters here had been applauding the shooter's actions, I'd be asking the same type of questions of them. You're right. It shouldn't make a difference the color of their skin. But does it?
- Julius
The basic problem with your question is that you are quite clearly attempting to change the focus of the issue away from one's Constitutional right to own weapons and lawfully defend oneself to that of race.
No where in the story does the race of the victims play a factor. Aside from that, unless it was a clear case of out and out murder, I would imagine that any racial aspect of this story or the other tragic story you sighted could easily be proven.
_____________________________
To whom much is given, much is expected. Luke 12:48
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/6/2008 1:29:31 AM
|
|
|
SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3448
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
So he should have cowered in the closet and hope they didn't come into his house?
John
Yes.
The police were on their way to nab the burglars. They would have gotten caught, and received a punishment that was more pertaining to their crime than execution. . .
And when they open the door and put a bullet in his head... Oh well?
John
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/6/2008 7:30:11 AM
|
|
|
deliveredarling
Posts: 1454
Status: offline
|
quote:
Oh by the way. Calling me "prejudiced and hardened" isn't going to make me go away.
In no way am I trying to make you go away. I just don't feel that race is an issu here or what it would matter if they had been white kids or vis versa. People like to pull the race card when they start losing ground and I wanted to plainly state that it is not a factor here.
Tragedies with guns happen everyday. Apparently in the last couple of years tragedies with fruit happen too. So do we stop eating fruit all together? People have the right to own and use guns responsibly. And I mean no offense to law enforcement by this statement, they can't always respond in a timely manner. What is the average citizen to do. The logical answer is defend themselves with whatever means necessary.
Being a paranoid vigilante is not the solution. As for the kid in a Halloween costume in Louisiana, that is very sad, given the crime rate in Louisiana it's just not very surprising. I lived there for 6 years, it never got any better.
I personally feel that Mr. Horn should have waited on the police. The men probably wouldn't have taken notice of him enough to threaten him, had he not been toting a shotgun and threatening them. He intentionally involved himself in a mess he created. He made a bad call and now has to live the rest of his life knowing what he has done. The article says it wasn't vigilantism, but it sure sounds like it to me.
Live and let live.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/6/2008 8:11:04 AM
|
|
|
1love1God1way
Posts: 1999
Joined: 5/16/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
So he should have cowered in the closet and hope they didn't come into his house?
John
Yes.
The police were on their way to nab the burglars. They would have gotten caught, and received a punishment that was more pertaining to their crime than execution. . .
And when they open the door and put a bullet in his head... Oh well?
John
You're right.
Strike first.
That's what Christ would have done.
_____________________________
-Ben-
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/6/2008 9:06:20 AM
|
|
|
saved9201
Posts: 571
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Leon_Figg3
The basic problem with your question is that you are quite clearly attempting to change the focus of the issue away from one's Constitutional right to own weapons and lawfully defend oneself to that of race.
No. I'm trying to change the focus on the issue away from one's
own Constitutional right to own weapons and one's personal responsibilty to use them wisely. In this case, the shooter clearly wasn't using a weapon to defend himself. People here keep adding their own, "what if" scenarios - what if one of the victims was Ted Bundy; what if the victims later came back and killed everyone in the neighborhood. I've inserted my own "what if" scenario into the equation. I don't believe we should be able to kill someone base on what we think they may do later on. Further, last I checked, the penalty for burglary or trespassing wasn't death.
quote:
No where in the story does the race of the victims play a factor. Aside from that, unless it was a clear case of out and out murder, I would imagine that any racial aspect of this story or the other tragic story you sighted could easily be proven.
How do you know that? How do you know for sure that the shooter would have at least hesitated a bit longer had the burglars and the exchange student had been white? How do you know if there would be a little less sympathy on the part of the jurors and some of the folks in this forum had those been some white college students? Maybe race wasn't a factor at all, like you say. But are you sure?
- Julius
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/6/2008 9:11:43 AM
|
|
|
Marcus.
Posts: 1374
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
Folks don't understand that even when they have a justifiable reason and must defend themselves or their loved ones, it comes at a price. Killing another person isn't an emotionally or mentally easy thing. Even when you have no choice, this will be with you for quite a while. Non-military or police will most likely suffer from PTSD afterwards, even if they had no choice.
Our society glamorizes killing the bad guys. Look at most of our movies and TV shows. We really do need a change in our entertainment because it does set a psychological tone to how we view many things in life.
Only sociopaths aren't bothered by murder. Just remember that.
_____________________________
Blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord.
Hosea Project Care Net
Google
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/6/2008 9:21:16 AM
|
|
|
WormHeart
Posts: 310
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Denmark - pride of Scandinavia
Status: offline
|
I had to google the Castle Law, because I didn't get an answer before. I found this:
quote:
Here are major provisions of Texas' castle law:
•It presumes you are reasonable in using deadly force if someone – illegally and with force – enters or is attempting to enter your occupied home, car or workplace. You are not given this presumption if you provoked the person or were engaged in a crime.
•It removes your obligation to retreat if possible before using deadly force if you are anywhere you have a right to be. The previous law obliged you to retreat if a "reasonable person" would have, except in a situation where someone unlawfully entered your home.
•It gives you added protection from lawsuits by injured attackers or their families. The previous law granted this protection if someone illegally entered your home, but not in other situations.
So if I understand this law, you are in fact *not* allowed to shoot teens in the yard, because it is not you "occupied home". You *can* shoot someone climbing through the window.
However, you must not have provoked the intrusion.
"Provoked" would need clarification. Is this something you actively do, like standing and shouting obscenities at passersby, or just someone feeling provoked by something?
Can you build a statue in your yard of two men kissing, and then lie in wait in the bushes to kill anyone trying to vandalise it? I would presume yes, since they *are* trying to vandalise you property and the other interpretaion would open up all sorts of reasons to feel provoked.
So... teens in the pool - no!
Hobos going through your garbage - no!
Intruders in you home - yes!
Teens tagging your garage - yes!?
Is this so?
WormHeart
_____________________________
Praise King and Country with might
Bless every Dane at heart
For serving with no fright
The Viking kingdom for Danes is true
With fields and waving beeches
By a sea so blue
National Anthem of Denmark
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/6/2008 9:25:09 AM
|
|
|
saved9201
Posts: 571
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
In no way am I trying to make you go away. I just don't feel that race is an issu here or what it would matter if they had been white kids or vis versa.
As I said before, you know this for sure?
quote:
People like to pull the race card when they start losing ground and I wanted to plainly state that it is not a factor here.
I'm not playing the race card. I'm playing the "imagine you or yours or somebody that looks like you at the other end of that shotgun" card. Like I said, if black people were cheering a black shooter who killed some white's who did the same thing, I'd be asking them the same questions. I don't believe you should take someone's life just because they were trespassing on your neighbors property or whatever these guys were doing. And I certainly don't believe we as Christians should be holding Mr. Horn up as some kind of hero for what he did.
Oh, and does it look like I'm "losing ground"?
quote:
People have the right to own and use guns responsibly.
I'll repeat that. RESPONSIBLY.
quote:
And I mean no offense to law enforcement by this statement, they can't always respond in a timely manner. What is the average citizen to do. The logical answer is defend themselves with whatever means necessary.
Agreed. I just don't consider what Mr. Horn did as defending himself.
quote:
Being a paranoid vigilante is not the solution.
An appropriate description of Mr. Horn, IHMO.
quote:
I personally feel that Mr. Horn should have waited on the police. The men probably wouldn't have taken notice of him enough to threaten him, had he not been toting a shotgun and threatening them. He intentionally involved himself in a mess he created. He made a bad call and now has to live the rest of his life knowing what he has done. The article says it wasn't vigilantism, but it sure sounds like it to me.
Live and let live.
My sentiments exactly. I'm just trying to get others to see it the same way.
- Julius
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/6/2008 9:45:25 AM
|
|
|
Sophie11
Posts: 634
Joined: 1/24/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
In no way am I trying to make you go away. I just don't feel that race is an issu here or what it would matter if they had been white kids or vis versa.
As I said before, you know this for sure?
quote:
People like to pull the race card when they start losing ground and I wanted to plainly state that it is not a factor here.
I'm not playing the race card. I'm playing the "imagine you or yours or somebody that looks like you at the other end of that shotgun" card. Like I said, if black people were cheering a black shooter who killed some white's who did the same thing, I'd be asking them the same questions. I don't believe you should take someone's life just because they were trespassing on your neighbors property or whatever these guys were doing. And I certainly don't believe we as Christians should be holding Mr. Horn up as some kind of hero for what he did.
I think the problem some are having with this argument is that first of all, you are assuming everyone responding in favor of the court's decision on Mr. Horn are white folks, and secondly you are asking a question that assumes those people to be racists.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/6/2008 10:22:57 AM
|
|
|
saved9201
Posts: 571
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sophie11
I think the problem some are having with this argument is that first of all, you are assuming everyone responding in favor of the court's decision on Mr. Horn are white folks, and secondly you are asking a question that assumes those people to be racists.
Wrong on both counts. There are some black folks who, because of the neighborhoods in which they live, feel more threatened by other blacks than by whites. Last year, an NFL football player, Sean Taylor, was placed on probation for illegal weapons charges and as part of his probation, was prohibited from owning any firearms. If he violated this probation, he was facing jail time as well as suspension from the NFL. So these burglars who obviously read the newspapers which pretty much advertised, "Rich NFL player lives in mansion and has no guns" invaded his home one night. Taylor had to defend himself with a machete', and was fatally shot by the burglars. The burglars were black. Taylor's life was threatened and his fiance's and his child were also in the house. If he had illegally owned a firearm, he could have defended himself, but could have ended up in jail for violating his probation and faced suspension from the NFL. Unless he was as fortunate as Mr. Horn and gotten a sympathetic jury. As the saying goes, "It's better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6." Taylor was tragically carried by six.
Also, I'm not assuming anyone to be racist. I'm just asking the question which apparently some people have a hard time answering, they'd rather critique my motives. And I'm only asking those who have absolutely no problem with what Mr. Horn did and are holding him up to be some sort of cult hero. As the case indicated, Horn didn't follow the letter of the Castle Law and he disobeyed law enforcement, and yet the jury found in his favor. There were people in the city of Pasadena, TX who also raised concerns that race may have been a factor in Mr. Horn's actions and in the verdict. I'm simply asking. Not accusing.
- Julius
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/6/2008 10:35:43 AM
|
|
|
rcjames
Posts: 4851
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
How do you know that? How do you know for sure that the shooter would have at least hesitated a bit longer had the burglars and the exchange student had been white? How do you know if there would be a little less sympathy on the part of the jurors and some of the folks in this forum had those been some white college students? Maybe race wasn't a factor at all, like you say. But are you sure?
- Julius
How do you know for sure that he would not have hesitated if the criminals race had been different.
The two criminals were breaking the law, the man with the gun was not. Nuff said.
Thsnks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/6/2008 11:56:33 AM
|
|
|
PaleHawkWoman
Posts: 252
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: rhippie
Surely you aren't saying that just because it's legal it is okay are you?
I am saying that that Texas law should be nationwide law.
Thsnks
RC
Under Texas law "adaquate counsel"means only that your attorney is present in court- he/she can be drunk, stoned, asleep, or totally incompetent but as long as he/she is there you are considered to have adequate counsel. What kind of law is that?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/6/2008 12:36:26 PM
|
|
|
solo_soprano22
Posts: 2282
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: I'm a Southern girl
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sophie11
I think the problem some are having with this argument is that first of all, you are assuming everyone responding in favor of the court's decision on Mr. Horn are white folks, and secondly you are asking a question that assumes those people to be racists.
Wrong on both counts. There are some black folks who, because of the neighborhoods in which they live, feel more threatened by other blacks than by whites.
- Julius
Most definitely.
_____________________________
For God, For Learning, Forever.
"Sometimes I Wonder Why" (Blog entry)
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
