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RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/2/2008 8:12:56 PM
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rlj
Posts: 1952
Joined: 4/14/2005
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quote:
How DID you become a preacher?
I would guess from having a love for the Lord, a good knowledge of scripture and being good at helping people. He could be my Pastor any time though I doubt I'd vote for him for any political office. ; )
If you stick around and read some of the threads especially in the theology area RC is good to listen to.
_____________________________
-Roger
1 Thess 5:20 do not treat prophecies with contempt. 21 Test everything. Hold on to the good. (NIV)
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RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/2/2008 8:47:50 PM
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upNORTder
Posts: 228
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The law in Texas may allow you to shoot someone over property, that does not make it morally correct. The law allows prostitutes in Nevada- Does that make seeing a hooker morally correct?
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RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/2/2008 9:39:16 PM
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bob97
Posts: 1777
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
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Which is the worst sin...robbing someone or killing someone?
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/2/2008 10:08:20 PM
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upNORTder
Posts: 228
Joined: 7/20/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
Which is the worst sin...robbing someone or killing someone?
Bob
If a nonbeliever is robbed, all they are out is a material possession, if they are killed they have lost thier life. The robbery victim still has time to find salvation, the murder victim does not. The murderer took away any chance that person had to find salvation, the robber did not.
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RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/2/2008 10:33:12 PM
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bob97
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Did God put a value on sin? Did He grade the commandments, listing which was the greater sin? Please show me scripture saying that murder is greater.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/2/2008 11:08:36 PM
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bob97
Posts: 1777
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From: Kansas
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quote:
How DID you become a preacher?
Almost forgot, you do know that "Jeeeeeezzzzz" is a euphemism for "Jesus" don't you?
6dj8...who made you a judge? You don't know the heart of RC and you are in no position to judge his worth.
If the Jeeeeezzz is a euphemism for Jesus to you then you better not use it because you have sinned. I would suggest to you that RC does not make that connection and as such is sinless using the same word.
RC and I don't always agree (we do sometimes) but I respect him for a true man of God and without doubt a very good preacher. I like his moral fiber.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/2/2008 11:29:25 PM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 2134
Joined: 5/16/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
Did God put a value on sin? Did He grade the commandments, listing which was the greater sin? Please show me scripture saying that murder is greater.
Bob
Absolutely.
Just read about how God dealt out different punishments for different sins.
All sins lead to death, but all sins are not the same.
_____________________________
love.ben
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RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/3/2008 12:30:23 AM
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bob97
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Ben...show me where it says that one sin is greater than another in regards to our salvation. Will not God forgive me of any sin? I'm not talking about sinning compulsively once saved but I am talking one sin compared to another.
Sure in the OT it was an eye for an eye but even there God did not condemn for justified killing.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/3/2008 1:11:57 AM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 2134
Joined: 5/16/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
Ben...show me where it says that one sin is greater than another in regards to our salvation. Will not God forgive me of any sin? I'm not talking about sinning compulsively once saved but I am talking one sin compared to another.
Sure in the OT it was an eye for an eye but even there God did not condemn for justified killing.
Bob
In regards to salvation, as I said, all sins equal death.
This side of eternity, however, things are viewed differently.
There is a difference between stealing from someone's house, and brutally murdering two people.
_____________________________
love.ben
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RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/3/2008 1:37:34 AM
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bob97
Posts: 1777
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From: Kansas
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Ben from my perspective I agree with you
But the Bible say there are seven things that God hates and are a abomination to him:(Pro 6:16-18)
A proud look,
A lying tongue,
Hands that shed innocent blood,
A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that are swift in running to evil,
A false witness who speaks lies,
And one who sows discord among brethren.
To me it would appear that a proud look is no more sinful then hands that shed innocent blood. On the other hand...are these seven more sinful than things not stated?
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/3/2008 2:07:54 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4388
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: upNORTder
quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
Which is the worst sin...robbing someone or killing someone?
Bob
If a nonbeliever is robbed, all they are out is a material possession, if they are killed they have lost thier life. The robbery victim still has time to find salvation, the murder victim does not. The murderer took away any chance that person had to find salvation, the robber did not.
Salvation hinges on someone being murdered? Scripture???
John
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RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/3/2008 2:09:52 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4388
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
Did God put a value on sin? Did He grade the commandments, listing which was the greater sin? Please show me scripture saying that murder is greater.
Bob
Well... The first table has to do with God and the second man... There is something to the order... We are told to honor man, and to FEAR God.. As well Christ told Pilate others had a greater sin in regards to their actions...
John
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RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/3/2008 2:21:29 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4388
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: upNORTder
The law in Texas may allow you to shoot someone over property, that does not make it morally correct. The law allows prostitutes in Nevada- Does that make seeing a hooker morally correct?
The onus isn't on the person defending themselves to know the intentions of the person who is actually illegally. If one enters my home and I will assume that person intends to harm me and or those I am responsible for and I will deal with them in the appropriate manner... I am not going to wait till I am harmed(since that would render me useless to those I am charged with protecting) or someone I am responsible for is harmed before I deal with the threat. If the person was simply there to steal the DVD player that is their issue, not mine and they alone must assume responsiblilty for their actions...
John
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RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/3/2008 8:20:11 AM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2246
Joined: 10/1/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
Sorry but a large part of the problem in this country is represented by the apathy I see expressed by some here. The thought that we have no business being involved in social justice is silly.
It’s just like the crowd that stands around on the street corner watching someone get beaten to death, “I just didn’t want to get involved” or “Hey…I did my job…I called the police and they should be here in about 10 minutes.”
Bob
[sarc/on]
So why do we need police? Let's all take the law into our own hands! If I see someone walking down the street with a bag and think that they came out of a neighbor's house; I should just shoot first and ask questions later!
"You're dead!" - Joe Horn
[sarc/off]
BTW, I am just making a point and don't be
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/3/2008 9:16:44 AM
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6dj8
Posts: 30
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"Jeeeezzz" is used in the place of "Jesus" as in "Jesus, you bleedin' heart libs are stupid".
And I want HIM to explain how a bloodthirsty man like him became a pastor, gosh dang it!
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RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/3/2008 9:36:06 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1633
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
The onus isn't on the person defending themselves to know the intentions of the person who is actually illegally. If one enters my home and I will assume that person intends to harm me and or those I am responsible for and I will deal with them in the appropriate manner... I am not going to wait till I am harmed(since that would render me useless to those I am charged with protecting) or someone I am responsible for is harmed before I deal with the threat. If the person was simply there to steal the DVD player that is their issue, not mine and they alone must assume responsiblilty for their actions...
John
Somebody breaking into your home is one thing - in that case, I agree with you. But these burglars didn't break into this guy's home - there's no evidence I am aware of that prior to his exiting the house, they presented any sort of danger to him whatsoever. At worst, they were trespassing in his yard.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/3/2008 9:36:45 AM
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Sophie11
Posts: 750
Joined: 1/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 6dj8
"Jeeeezzz" is used in the place of "Jesus" as in "Jesus, you bleedin' heart libs are stupid".
And I want HIM to explain how a bloodthirsty man like him became a pastor, gosh dang it!
He doesn't have to explain anything to you. This thread is about Mr. Horn, not RC.
If your only reason for entering into the conversation on this thread is to attack the character of another poster then perhaps you should read over the TOS once again.
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RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/3/2008 9:45:14 AM
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bob97
Posts: 1777
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From: Kansas
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Please note from Pro 6:16-18...God hates the spilling of innocent blood.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/3/2008 9:46:05 AM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10857
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And "Gosh dang it" is just a euphemism for... 
But anyway, not that this will change anyone's mind about this case here, there is a video walkthrough done by the Pasadena PD with Mr. Horn. The biggest thing it shows is the proximity of the bad guys to where Horn came out his front door to get a license number. Click here. The sound quality isn't that good so turn up the speakers.
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/3/2008 9:52:43 AM
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upNORTder
Posts: 228
Joined: 7/20/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: upNORTder
quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
Which is the worst sin...robbing someone or killing someone?
Bob
If a nonbeliever is robbed, all they are out is a material possession, if they are killed they have lost thier life. The robbery victim still has time to find salvation, the murder victim does not. The murderer took away any chance that person had to find salvation, the robber did not.
Salvation hinges on someone being murdered? Scripture???
John
No scripture, just logic-
When someone is killed, it's over for them- they are either saved or not. They no longer have a chance for salvation if they are not saved at that point. If someone has been robbed, they still can seek salvation. When a nonbeliever is killed, they cannot be saved anymore.
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RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/3/2008 10:17:34 AM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2246
Joined: 10/1/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zhi
I found this nytimes article interesting, as it has testimony from the officer on the scene among other things.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/13/us/13texas.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
"Captain Corbett said that a plainclothes officer had pulled up just in time to see Mr. Horn pointing his shotgun at both men across his front yard, that Mr. Ortiz had at one point started to run in a way that took him closer to Mr. Horn, and that both men “received gunfire from the rear.”"
I wasn't sure what to make of this comment by the neighbors:
"Yet the neighbors whose house Mr. Horn was protecting are Vietnamese. They later said they thought the two men had been stalking them."
Then I did some digging and found that the police suspect that the two burglars are part of a Houston-based organized burglary ring that specifically targets legal immigrants.
"One of them, identified by the police as Hernando Torres, a k a Miguel Antonio DeJesus, 38, was found across the street "
"The other, Diego Ortiz, 30, fell on a neighbor’s lawn. Bloodstains were still visible on the sidewalk Tuesday." (Quote from article.)
If they were in HIS yard why are their NO bodies or blood in HIS yard? Sounds like they saw his shotgun and they immediately turned to flee and were shot in the back - outside of his yard.
In regards to his defense of his "Vietnamese" neighbors he stated on the 911 call that "he didn't know them". (Even in LA, people know their next door neighbor.) "If it was his other neighbor," he said, "I'd have been over there already!" He shows a differentiation between neighbors. Why?
Lastly, where is your source for the claim of a crime ring? I can claim I have a source that shows he was a card carrying member of the KKK but without a source for these allegations it's just my attempts to affect people's perceptions.
BTW, no one who is against his cowboy style vigilantism is naive enough to think these guys were upstanding members of the community!
Lastly, HE even admits he made a MISTAKE in doing what he did! I give him credit for his remorse.
Horn: "I would never advocate anyone doing what I did" (See Post #102 for source)
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/3/2008 10:35:44 AM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10857
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
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quote:
If they were in HIS yard why are their NO bodies or blood in HIS yard? Sounds like they saw his shotgun and they immediately turned to flee and were shot in the back - outside of his yard. Look at the video I linked to and look at the size of the yard.
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/3/2008 10:42:28 AM
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StephK
Posts: 1887
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
quote:
If they were in HIS yard why are their NO bodies or blood in HIS yard? Sounds like they saw his shotgun and they immediately turned to flee and were shot in the back - outside of his yard. Look at the video I linked to and look at the size of the yard.
There wasn't much yard at all.
_____________________________
Stephanie
Religion has accepted the monstrous heresy that noise, size, activity and bluster make a man dear to God. To a people caught in the tempest God says, `Be still, and know that I am God.' ~AW Tozer
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RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/3/2008 10:44:10 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5210
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 6dj8
Almost forgot, you do know that "Jeeeeeezzzzz" is a euphemism for "Jesus" don't you?
Absolutely, and I was calling on Jesus to help put some common sense into the flaming liberal that defend criminal behavior.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Texas man cleared of killing suspected burglars - 7/3/2008 10:48:25 AM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 2134
Joined: 5/16/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: 6dj8
Almost forgot, you do know that "Jeeeeeezzzzz" is a euphemism for "Jesus" don't you?
Absolutely, and I was calling on Jesus to help put some common sense into the flaming liberal that defend criminal behavior.
Thanks
RC
No.
I am not defending criminals.
I am saying that murder is wrong. Whether it's a criminal or not that gets shot.
I mean, at least, that's what my Bible tells me.
_____________________________
love.ben
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