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RE: Is God green? - 7/2/2008 1:37:16 PM
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backrowbaptist
Posts: 300
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TaoPoohBear
quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
Documented proof to support either of these statements would be greatly appreciated
Not just documented proof, but proof that is based on real-time, and not modeled data. But studies that were done using the scientific method: that being observable, measureable, and repeatable. Come on greenies if global warming is such a truth I know you can provide this type of evidence. Is it provable beyond a reasonable doubt; I think not.
Artic Sea Ice News & Analysis
This is a great link. You have to wade through the science lingo, but it shows that global sea levels are NOT rising any faster than they have the last 800 years or so.
Again, my point in starting this thread was to question whether or not christians and churches should unquestionably embrace environmental alarmism, as the article above advocated, or stress a balanced approach that considers the thousands of scientific and intellectual voices that are skeptical or contrary. Do we use our minds, think critically and stand for truth, or do we go with the prevailing winds of societal opinion in an effort to be "relevant".
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RE: Is God green? - 7/2/2008 1:41:30 PM
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HighPlainsDrifter
Posts: 1165
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: The Land Of The Burnt Thigh
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quote:
Lastly, the enviromental movement is akin to a religion..at worst...and social control at best. Its not about the enviroment, since it is already protected. Its about political and social control and power. Its based on very faulty science. Its more emotion than fact.
Exactly, it's heart is only to oppose capitalism. The "green movement" is essentially repackaged rebranded and re-colored marxism. It's clever new packaging allows for making inroads into every major institution within this country. I must admit, it's been a brilliant stroke of genius. Ensconce your ideology/religion into every educational institution, bring all the people that run such institutions into your camp, and set your ideology up such that any opposition is anti-intellectual and immoral. Once you have the kiddies, all you need do is wait for the older generations to pass away and you've successfully executed a bloodless coup and changed society forever.
_____________________________
''I don't regret setting bombs,'' Bill Ayers said. ''I feel we didn't do enough.''
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RE: Is God green? - 7/2/2008 2:09:22 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2657
Joined: 11/16/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: backrowbaptist
Again, my point in starting this thread was to question whether or not christians and churches should unquestionably embrace environmental alarmism, as the article above advocated, or stress a balanced approach that considers the thousands of scientific and intellectual voices that are skeptical or contrary. Do we use our minds, think critically and stand for truth, or do we go with the prevailing winds of societal opinion in an effort to be "relevant".
As a "greenie", I can still agree with this part. When you toss critical thought to the wind (and I see this on BOTH sides of the debate) you are heading for trouble.
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RE: Is God green? - 7/2/2008 2:14:28 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2253
Joined: 10/1/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Seems like God gave man doninion over all the earth to do with as man so desired.
Thanks
RC
Well man has desired to dump his trash wherever and in whatever quantity we want. We whine about smog control (drives up the price of our cars) we don't want to use mass transit (might cramp our style) or spend the money to implement better mass transit (rather spend it on foreign wars).
But I guess since we are dominating the earth and God said we can do whatever we want, it's OK. How about we send some more trash to Oklahoma? Y'all need some hills there anyway! 
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Is God green? - 7/2/2008 2:24:02 PM
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fiat_lux
Posts: 290
Joined: 5/21/2005
From: Ottawa
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quote:
Exactly, it's heart is only to oppose capitalism. The "green movement" is essentially repackaged rebranded and re-colored marxism. It's clever new packaging allows for making inroads into every major institution within this country. I must admit, it's been a brilliant stroke of genius. Ensconce your ideology/religion into every educational institution, bring all the people that run such institutions into your camp, and set your ideology up such that any opposition is anti-intellectual and immoral. Once you have the kiddies, all you need do is wait for the older generations to pass away and you've successfully executed a bloodless coup and changed society forever.
Despite what you seem to think, not every major social movement you disagree with is united in a sinister conspiracy. On the bright side, if the Marxists are behind it, you've got nothing to worry about. They don't exactly have a good record at taking over industrialized countries.
< Message edited by fiat_lux -- 7/2/2008 2:32:11 PM >
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RE: Is God green? - 7/2/2008 2:36:26 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2253
Joined: 10/1/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WesP
quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
quote:
ORIGINAL: backrowbaptist
Again, my point in starting this thread was to question whether or not christians and churches should unquestionably embrace environmental alarmism, as the article above advocated, or stress a balanced approach that considers the thousands of scientific and intellectual voices that are skeptical or contrary. Do we use our minds, think critically and stand for truth, or do we go with the prevailing winds of societal opinion in an effort to be "relevant".
As a "greenie", I can still agree with this part. When you toss critical thought to the wind (and I see this on BOTH sides of the debate) you are heading for trouble.
What's your take on ethanol as an alternative fuel? Is that a "green" method?
Sorry to butt in but ethanol is the biggest sham to hit the environmental movement second only to global warming! Some studies have shown that it takes more energy to produce the corn and make the ethanol than it saves us in its usage. But it sounds green though!
I'm all for being a good steward but it takes sound science behind it too!
BTW was shopping for tee shirts and found one that said "I'm going Environ- Mental" with a drawing of a guy in a straightjacket on it. 
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Is God green? - 7/2/2008 3:06:48 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2657
Joined: 11/16/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WesP
What's your take on ethanol as an alternative fuel? Is that a "green" method?
I get hung up on that question on an ethical basis before even getting to the environmental questions. Ethically, in a world that needs food products desperately, I just can't justify burning food products for fuel when I do have non-edibles available for energy consumption. They might be more expensive, but you can't eat petroleum. Petroleum isn't so expensive yet that I'm willing to rob food stocks for it.
On an environmental basis, I don't think it works very well either though. It takes a lot of energy to create ethanol. I don't think the balance of energy required vs energy produced looks very attractive. I'm no expert, but what I've read on the issue doesn't make me jump up and down with joy.
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RE: Is God green? - 7/2/2008 3:11:18 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2657
Joined: 11/16/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
How about we send some more trash to Oklahoma? Y'all need some hills there anyway!
LOL - I lived in flatter-than-a-pan Houston. As a skier/hiker/climber, I was getting so desperate for anything that looked like a hill, I was about to start climbing the overpasses. It got to the point that even the garbage dumps started to look attractive. That's when you know you need to consider moving.
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RE: Is God green? - 7/2/2008 3:15:43 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 825
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
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quote:
"The growing population of the world, combined with the consumerist habits of this ever-increasing population, means that our current way of doing life are simply not sustainable. Already there is disturbing deterioration in the quality of life of many people, especially the poorer and relatively powerless members of the global community."
I'd like to point out that it's not the Christian nations whose population is exploding. In fact, the last I heard, the population is actually declining (or at least not growing significantly) in Christian nations. Recent dat indicates that China and India are presently the worst polluters on the planet. As Christians, are we to sacrifice that which we have accomplished and gained so that non-Christian nations can continue to "do their own thing?"
Inquiring minds want to know.............
-Dave
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Is God green? - 7/2/2008 3:54:25 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2657
Joined: 11/16/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
I'd like to point out that it's not the Christian nations whose population is exploding. In fact, the last I heard, the population is actually declining (or at least not growing significantly) in Christian nations. Recent dat indicates that China and India are presently the worst polluters on the planet. As Christians, are we to sacrifice that which we have accomplished and gained so that non-Christian nations can continue to "do their own thing?"
Inquiring minds want to know.............
-Dave
The alternative might possibly be that we "Christian" nations end up telling the rest of the world that, "No, you can't increase your standard of living and consume as much as we do. We can't afford it."
Somewhere between rampant selfishness ("I'll consume as much as I want to.") and strict economic egalitarianism ("I'll force us all to consume exactly the same amount, regardless of merit.") there is a happy balance. Clearly, we need to work with the developing countries to develop and grow in environmentally sustainable ways. We also need to be sensitive to the fact that 10 billion people can't all engage in American-style consumption.
In the long run, we may have to moderate our aquisitiveness. That doesn't seem so out of touch with Christian principles. Look at what what the Christian financial advisors are all saying - simplify, spend within your means, give to the church, moderate your consumption and spending. Moderate greenies like me and conservatives actually have a fair amount in common if you look at it in this light.
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RE: Is God green? - 7/2/2008 3:57:30 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2657
Joined: 11/16/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WesP
Thank you for your clarification. We are in total agreement. That being said, everyone who disagrees with us is just ignorant and emotionally unstable.
LOL - I can add those to the list of all the other adjectives I've been called. Pretty sure "ignorant" has been used before, but I think "emotionally unstable" is new (and probably one of the more accurate one's if you ask my wife.)
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RE: Is God green? - 7/2/2008 3:57:41 PM
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TaoPoohBear
Posts: 390
Joined: 1/18/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: backrowbaptist
quote:
ORIGINAL: TaoPoohBear
quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
Documented proof to support either of these statements would be greatly appreciated
Not just documented proof, but proof that is based on real-time, and not modeled data. But studies that were done using the scientific method: that being observable, measureable, and repeatable. Come on greenies if global warming is such a truth I know you can provide this type of evidence. Is it provable beyond a reasonable doubt; I think not.
Artic Sea Ice News & Analysis
This is a great link. You have to wade through the science lingo, but it shows that global sea levels are NOT rising any faster than they have the last 800 years or so.
Again, my point in starting this thread was to question whether or not christians and churches should unquestionably embrace environmental alarmism, as the article above advocated, or stress a balanced approach that considers the thousands of scientific and intellectual voices that are skeptical or contrary. Do we use our minds, think critically and stand for truth, or do we go with the prevailing winds of societal opinion in an effort to be "relevant".
Thanx!
Stumbled accross it awhile back (took a heck of alot of googling to find it again ).
What you said sparked a memory, a site that has information and not propaganda.
It is what it is (or as Popeye would say - "I'yam what I'yam, and I'yam what I'yam").
Happy hunting!
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RE: Is God green? - 7/2/2008 4:01:26 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2580
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: offline
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quote:
According to scientific measurements, Arctic sea ice has declined dramatically over at least the past thirty years, with the most extreme decline seen in the summer melt season.
But thirty years ago, according to the "experts" we were entering a new ice age. What happend to their expert perdictions? They were wrong them and they are wrong now.
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RE: Is God green? - 7/2/2008 4:11:33 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5210
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
LOL - I lived in flatter-than-a-pan Houston. As a skier/hiker/climber, I was getting so desperate for anything that looked like a hill, I was about to start climbing the overpasses. It got to the point that even the garbage dumps started to look attractive. That's when you know you need to consider moving.
The garbage dumps are not a bad Idea; While a Missionary in Mexico I evangelized and built a Chruch on top of Trash Mountain in Monterrey Mexico.
It is a monstrous mountain of thash that thousands of "Mineras" (folks who tummel through the trash heap looking for metals to sell) live and work. It might not be as bad as you think.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is God green? - 7/2/2008 4:13:54 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2657
Joined: 11/16/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
LOL - I lived in flatter-than-a-pan Houston. As a skier/hiker/climber, I was getting so desperate for anything that looked like a hill, I was about to start climbing the overpasses. It got to the point that even the garbage dumps started to look attractive. That's when you know you need to consider moving.
The garbage dumps are not a bad Idea; While a Missionary in Mexico I evangelized and built a Chruch on top of Trash Mountain in Monterrey Mexico.
It is a monstrous mountain of thash that thousands of "Mineras" (folks who tummel through the trash heap looking for metals to sell) live and work. It might not be as bad as you think.
Thanks
RC
Agreed. My wife's in seminary and has a couple of friends there that work in the dumps of Mexico and Guatemala. They absolutely adore the people that live there.
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RE: Is God green? - 7/2/2008 4:20:29 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1088
Joined: 6/4/2008
From: One of the coldest places on Earth
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WesP
quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
quote:
ORIGINAL: backrowbaptist
Again, my point in starting this thread was to question whether or not christians and churches should unquestionably embrace environmental alarmism, as the article above advocated, or stress a balanced approach that considers the thousands of scientific and intellectual voices that are skeptical or contrary. Do we use our minds, think critically and stand for truth, or do we go with the prevailing winds of societal opinion in an effort to be "relevant".
As a "greenie", I can still agree with this part. When you toss critical thought to the wind (and I see this on BOTH sides of the debate) you are heading for trouble.
What's your take on ethanol as an alternative fuel? Is that a "green" method?
Ethanol is a joke. If we're going to get away from oil as a fuel source, its going to have be via other methods. (hydrogen powered vehicles, wind power, etc.).
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RE: Is God green? - 7/2/2008 5:29:35 PM
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HighPlainsDrifter
Posts: 1165
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: The Land Of The Burnt Thigh
Status: offline
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quote:
Ethanol is a joke. If we're going to get away from oil as a fuel source, its going to have be via other methods. (hydrogen powered vehicles, wind power, etc.).
Ditto that. Stop the senseless burning of food.
_____________________________
''I don't regret setting bombs,'' Bill Ayers said. ''I feel we didn't do enough.''
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RE: Is God green? - 7/2/2008 5:45:25 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2657
Joined: 11/16/2007
Status: offline
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What? A little vaseline on your bread instead of margarine isn't so bad now, is it?
Burn the food, and eat .... oh, I don't know...something.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Is God green? - 7/3/2008 9:14:39 AM
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davemiller7
Posts: 825
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
Status: offline
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Would eating Vaseline eliminate the need for laxatives? Hmmmmmmm.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
What? A little vaseline on your bread instead of margarine isn't so bad now, is it?
Burn the food, and eat .... oh, I don't know...something.
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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