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ORIGINAL: mikejonesoftn

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ORIGINAL: ianz

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ORIGINAL: Carico
You first have to understand the bible to claim to refute it. So until you yourself know the history of the Jews, you aren't qualified to claim that Moses is a lair when he said he heard from God. So his words stand as true until you can prove him wrong. Sorry. But it's not hard at all to prove the theory of evolution wrong. All one needs to do is observe what animals and humans breed in reality and have a basic understanding of the birds and the bees. So since you believe theories that contradict reality, then you're not qualified to criticize the bible.

I didn't call Moses a liar. I asked how you can prove that he wrote his books of the Bible. And further how you can prove he was inspired to do so by God.

Of course, you can't prove it. Since it can't be proven, by your own description the bible is merely a work of art.

I'm only saying all this to point out the double-standards you are employing.

Regards, Ian

I don't think he's purposely doing so, I do believe it's his faith in the Bible that makes it look like so.

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ORIGINAL: Carico

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ORIGINAL: mikejonesoftn

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ORIGINAL: ianz

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ORIGINAL: Carico
You first have to understand the bible to claim to refute it. So until you yourself know the history of the Jews, you aren't qualified to claim that Moses is a lair when he said he heard from God. So his words stand as true until you can prove him wrong. Sorry. But it's not hard at all to prove the theory of evolution wrong. All one needs to do is observe what animals and humans breed in reality and have a basic understanding of the birds and the bees. So since you believe theories that contradict reality, then you're not qualified to criticize the bible.

I didn't call Moses a liar. I asked how you can prove that he wrote his books of the Bible. And further how you can prove he was inspired to do so by God.

Of course, you can't prove it. Since it can't be proven, by your own description the bible is merely a work of art.

I'm only saying all this to point out the double-standards you are employing.

Regards, Ian

I don't think he's purposely doing so, I do believe it's his faith in the Bible that makes it look like so.

Of course he's calling Moses a liar. He doesn't believe that Moses is telling the truth when Moses said he heard from God. It's that simple.

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ORIGINAL: Method

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ORIGINAL: Raptorman
Ugh. Answers in Genesis already did a technical article about Behemoth, and apparently "tail" means not "penis," but "tail" (big surprise, I know).

"Tail" was used as a euphemism elsewhere in the bible and it fits better as a couplet with the obvious reference to the "stones of the loins" which was translated as testicles in the Greek Septuagint.

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As for chewing: the passage could be only saying that the animal "eats" grass, sharing the diet of an ox. And even if the animal is said in the original Hebrew to be "chewing," it would depend on the dinosaur species. I forget if any species could actually move their jaws side to side for a chewing motion, but some dinosaurs had batteries of teeth which could grind vegetation to a pulp (hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, for sure, though I'll need to check and see if any large sauropods had this trait).

You are correct on this one. I will retract my earlier statement.

". . . usually have blunt teeth that are good for stripping vegetation (leaves, twigs, etc.). Some also have flat teeth for grinding tough plant fibers. Many herbivores have cheek pouches in which they can store food for a while. "
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/dinosaurs/anatomy/Diet.shtml

Also, it seems to be a bit of a reach to expect these beasts to be real in the first place. They are give obvious mythical abilities. They are on par with Bigfoot or Nessie.

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ORIGINAL: Carico

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ORIGINAL: ianz

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ORIGINAL: Carico
You first have to understand the bible to claim to refute it. So until you yourself know the history of the Jews, you aren't qualified to claim that Moses is a lair when he said he heard from God. So his words stand as true until you can prove him wrong. Sorry. But it's not hard at all to prove the theory of evolution wrong. All one needs to do is observe what animals and humans breed in reality and have a basic understanding of the birds and the bees. So since you believe theories that contradict reality, then you're not qualified to criticize the bible.

I didn't call Moses a liar. I asked how you can prove that he wrote his books of the Bible. And further how you can prove he was inspired to do so by God.

Of course, you can't prove it. Since it can't be proven, by your own description the bible is merely a work of art.

I'm only saying all this to point out the double-standards you are employing.

Regards, Ian

Of course he's calling Moses a liar. He doesn't believe that Moses is telling the truth when Moses said he heard from God. It's that simple.

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ORIGINAL: DanJames
I did a google search and was unable to find the passage that refers to the "stones of the loins". Where is this reference?

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A bit overstated. Unless we had known of bioluminescence in living creatures, it would be difficult to believe that it's possible. We don't know what kind of biological functions extinct creatures can have, but this passage seems to indicate that there was a creature which was capable of breathing fire and struck fear into the hearts of "mighty warriors". Not really mythical per se since there are creatures that can harness electricity in their bodies, some that can use boiling water as a weapon, others that can produce light. Life has a habit of using weird stuff in the struggle for survival. It's a testimony to the creativity of their creator.

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ORIGINAL: ianz

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ORIGINAL: Carico

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ORIGINAL: ianz

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ORIGINAL: Carico
You first have to understand the bible to claim to refute it. So until you yourself know the history of the Jews, you aren't qualified to claim that Moses is a lair when he said he heard from God. So his words stand as true until you can prove him wrong. Sorry. But it's not hard at all to prove the theory of evolution wrong. All one needs to do is observe what animals and humans breed in reality and have a basic understanding of the birds and the bees. So since you believe theories that contradict reality, then you're not qualified to criticize the bible.

I didn't call Moses a liar. I asked how you can prove that he wrote his books of the Bible. And further how you can prove he was inspired to do so by God.

Of course, you can't prove it. Since it can't be proven, by your own description the bible is merely a work of art.

I'm only saying all this to point out the double-standards you are employing.

Regards, Ian

Of course he's calling Moses a liar. He doesn't believe that Moses is telling the truth when Moses said he heard from God. It's that simple.

<sighs>

Carico, you said that because scientists can't prove, for example, that the bones they find lying together and which fit together like a jigsaw, cannot be proved to come from the same animal. (Even though there are even Creationist groups who have found near-complete skeletons of large, now extinct creatures, which most of us call dinosaurs.) You stated that these skeletons are works of art because they cannot be proved to have been a single animal.

So, if you were to apply the same Carico logic to the bible, for example that we cannot prove Moses wrote it, then according to Carico-logic, the bible can only be considered a work of art.

Regards, Ian

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ORIGINAL: Carico
Since no one in history can verify that dinosaurs once roamed the planet before humans, and since no one can prove that the funny looking creatures that scientists have glued together all came from one body, then it can't be proven that dinosaurs once existed.

The claims of Moses, on the other hand were witnessed, unlike dinosaurs. Even the Egyptians confirm that the Jews were once slaves in Egypt. And most importantly, Jesus, whose life, words and actions were witnessed also confirmed that moses was telling the truth.

So the scientists of today claim that their beliefs which no one has witnessed are true, yet the claims of the bible which were witnessed aren't true. So scientists have it backwards.

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ORIGINAL: mikejonesoftn

This thread isn't getting any where lol.

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ORIGINAL: ianz

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ORIGINAL: mikejonesoftn

This thread isn't getting any where lol.

I quite agree. I'm trying to get Carico to realise that absolute proof is impossible to achieve. No-one can prove that Moses wrote the books, for example. So why does Carico accept that Moses did, but not accept the evidence put forth by scientists (including Creationists) that dinosaurs existed?

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ORIGINAL: mikejonesoftn

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ORIGINAL: ianz

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ORIGINAL: mikejonesoftn

This thread isn't getting any where lol.

I quite agree. I'm trying to get Carico to realise that absolute proof is impossible to achieve. No-one can prove that Moses wrote the books, for example. So why does Carico accept that Moses did, but not accept the evidence put forth by scientists (including Creationists) that dinosaurs existed?

I can't speak for him but I honestly think it's a part of his faith and his practice. The Bible teaches us to believe God before man.

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ORIGINAL: ianz

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ORIGINAL: mikejonesoftn

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ORIGINAL: ianz

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ORIGINAL: mikejonesoftn

This thread isn't getting any where lol.

I quite agree. I'm trying to get Carico to realise that absolute proof is impossible to achieve. No-one can prove that Moses wrote the books, for example. So why does Carico accept that Moses did, but not accept the evidence put forth by scientists (including Creationists) that dinosaurs existed?

I can't speak for him but I honestly think it's a part of his faith and his practice. The Bible teaches us to believe God before man.

I don't doubt it is part of Carico's faith. But if so, then Carico dismisses the evidence for dinosaurs on faith alone, and not with any regard to evidence.

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ORIGINAL: mikejonesoftn
Strong faith

Heb. 11:1 - "faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen"
II Cor. 5:7 - "we walk by faith, not by sight"

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ORIGINAL: hellohellohi

Maybe everyone has seen this, but maybe no one has -- check out this picture!!

Jesus + dinos

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Only those who enjoy ridiculing the one who died to save them from their sins will like that picture.

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ORIGINAL: hellohellohi

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Only those who enjoy ridiculing the one who died to save them from their sins will like that picture.

I don't see why one couldn't take it perfectly seriously and therefore like it or enjoy it.

It was certainly created out of earnestness. I don't take it to be a parody anyway.

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ORIGINAL: hellohellohi

What, Jesus riding dinosaurs? I didn't make that up. I assume it was in a Christian coloring book of some sort.

However, I don't think it is wrong to find humor in serious situations. I don't know to what extent humor entails sin. Can God be made a mockery of? I doubt it. In the end, the joke's on us, eh?

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ORIGINAL: hellohellohi

I agree one ought not mock people of greater faith than oneself. I think it takes great faith to beleive that Jesus rode dinosaurs. However, I think I could still share a laugh with someone with such a belief when we share the perspectives that, to many, this belief is laughable. Part of them -- and indeed, part of anyone laughing -- may have a sad or sober side, believing as they do that people with less faith them may be in danger of damnation, but I am of the opinion that one ought to laugh at sin itself rather than granting it any kind of gravity or power. Its power, my point is, will go for naught in the end.

Therefore, even as it is not my belief that Jesus rode dinosaurs, I am not mocking those who do. Rather, I am heartened. It puts me in good spirits too, not because of the gravity of my own possible lack of faith, but because of the levity that those with faith may carry in in their own hearts. To believe that Jesus rode dinosaurs, I say, would be accompanied by a light heart -- becuase if one's faith is strong enough to believe in that -- who on earth could tempt you into disbelief? I think that would make one's heart light!

Therefore, also, I feel that the juxtaposition of this picture, reflecting great, childlike faith, with that of the faith in reason of the rest of the culture, which is inevitable given that it is contained in an icon of the culture, a coloring book, is an example of something humorous. It is the juxtaposition of two differing mental sets or perspectives. This could be a workable criteria, a necessary one perhaps, for humor.

Do I think is funny? I don't know, but, as I said, it makes my heart light. I don't really laugh out loud at this thing, or guffaw, mockingly, but I do smile. I mean, there is a color on it that is "flesh of Christ!" Can you imagine that in a Crayola 64-box??? This is a funny juxtaposition.

Imagine someone of little faith looking into the ol' Crayola (and, I don't know why it is basically "peach" instead of olivish or something) and finding "flesh of Christ?" "What's that doing here!" -- That's not a cardinal color! I never even saw that at Home Depot, and I though they had everything!" This is a funny juxtaposition. What if Crayola introduced someone to Christ!

Let's have fun with sinners, Carico! Lord knows what they are doing has no sense to it!

This time on earth is characterized by the remarkable juxtaposition and confrontation of the eternal with the temporary -- love versus propriety! It is the limbo in which at one time we know that we are sinners undeserving of experiencing the eternal presence of God but that GOd is calling us to Him anyway? Isn't laughter the realization that we MIGHT have been condemned and erased from the memory of God, but that our sin is what is going to be forgotten instead? Isn't humor the POSSIBILITY and inclination of acting badly, but the realization that we are protected by grace of doing so!!? What if it is the only plane among heaven and earth in which laughter is possible! Can one truly laugh out of perfect joy? Isn't laughter possible because of the inevitability of the disappearance of the tragic? Isn't humor the consideration of all bad things on earth, of which the eternal perspective take no notice, except to say, "I never knew you?"

Perhaps I smile at the dinosaur riding Jesus pic because I know I might fall into that category of unbelief or lack of faith, but I also know, through grace, that there is still hope of salvation even for a sinner like me! I am also very thankful that I am not at all offended by such faith, even if I find that my own does not measure up against it.

However, do I still entertain science qua science? Yes! The TOE is sciency to me, though has the danger of leading into ideology certainly.

But that is pretty irrelevant to everything else I said.

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Many people think it's laughable because it tries to assuage man's guilt.

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ORIGINAL: MENU4EVR

Wow! Thank you! I never thought of that until I read those links. That is something I would like to show to my kids as well and any non believer that may ask that questoin. Thanks so much! :)

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ORIGINAL: mikejonesoftn

This thread isn't getting any where lol.