Who is higher, Christians or angels? (Full Version)

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modu -> Who is higher, Christians or angels? (7/2/2008 2:40:13 PM)

Let us use spiritual revelations according to the Word of Life.



LCannon -> RE: Who is higher, Christians or angels? (7/2/2008 3:03:09 PM)

In what aspect of experience? Roughly, there's four 'levels' of experience eternally:
1. the Godhead: Jehovah the Eternal God, his Son the God of Redemption and the Holy Spirit the God of Conviction
2. Angels: Created beings that does(or opposes)Jehovah's/the Son's/the Spirit's biding in worship and service.
3: Mortals: We have a sense of a future in obedience or not.
4: Animals: No sense of a future.



WesP -> RE: Who is higher, Christians or angels? (7/2/2008 4:06:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LCannon

In what aspect of experience? Roughly, there's four 'levels' of experience eternally:
1. the Godhead: Jehovah the Eternal God, his Son the God of Redemption and the Holy Spirit the God of Conviction
2. Angels: Created beings that does(or opposes)Jehovah's/the Son's/the Spirit's biding in worship and service.
3: Mortals: We have a sense of a future in obedience or not.
4: Animals: No sense of a future.


And after Jesus returns, saved men and angels change places in the rankings. [;)]



bob97 -> RE: Who is higher, Christians or angels? (7/2/2008 10:29:36 PM)

For in one place the Scriptures say, "What are mere mortals that You should think about them, or a son of man that You should care for him? Yet You made them only a little lower than the angels and crowned them with glory and honor. [You gave them charge of everything You made.] You gave them authority over all things." Now when it says "all things," it means nothing is left out. But we have not yet seen all things put under their authority. (Heb 2:6-8)

I like the NLT translation here.

Bob



maran-atha -> RE: Who is higher, Christians or angels? (7/3/2008 1:40:38 PM)

What do you mean by 'higher'? Perhaps you should be asking who are the greatest servants?

Then again, why do you ask?



solarflare -> RE: Who is higher, Christians or angels? (7/3/2008 3:52:17 PM)

Is that before or after we die?



solarflare -> RE: Who is higher, Christians or angels? (7/3/2008 4:03:01 PM)

quote:

spiritual revelations


Can we use the Bible too?



Dubya -> RE: Who is higher, Christians or angels? (7/3/2008 6:44:30 PM)

Consider what God gave to each.

To fallen man, God sent His Son to redeem fallen man.

To fallen angels, God created Hell.

Seems like a no-brainer to me! God clearly favors humans.



Dubya -> RE: Who is higher, Christians or angels? (7/3/2008 6:50:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bob97

For in one place the Scriptures say, "What are mere mortals that You should think about them, or a son of man that You should care for him? Yet You made them only a little lower than the angels and crowned them with glory and honor. [You gave them charge of everything You made.] You gave them authority over all things." Now when it says "all things," it means nothing is left out. But we have not yet seen all things put under their authority. (Heb 2:6-8)

I like the NLT translation here.

Bob

That passage from Hebrews is a reference to Psalm 8:5.
The Hebrew word translated as "angels" or "heavenly beings" in theKJV or NIV is actually elohim. Elohim is more often translated as God.

The NASB gets the English translation correct.

Considering this, it seems to me that God intended humanity to be higher than the angels in His created order.

If this is correct, we may want to reconsider the urge to refer to a sweet little baby as a "little angel" if God considers humans to be of greater value.



bob97 -> RE: Who is higher, Christians or angels? (7/3/2008 11:28:49 PM)

quote:

Considering this, it seems to me that God intended humanity to be higher than the angels in His created order.


Here is the point Dubya…Christ was made a little lower then the angels so He could die;

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

This point of fact puts man (in this life) in the same position…we will die. In the next phase of our existence things will be different but not today.

Regarding the interpretation that Elohim is the word used for angels does not stand up in Heb 2:6 because aggello is used there which translates to messenger and is father supported in Heb 1:14;
ang'-el-os

Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Bob



modu -> RE: Who is higher, Christians or angels? (7/4/2008 11:42:40 AM)

Bob...thank you



celebratejesus911 -> RE: Who is higher, Christians or angels? (7/5/2008 1:48:56 AM)

I was talking about this a few days ago. This verse came to mind:

Hbr 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.

I believe it could mean that Jesus was lower than the angels only because He needed to come to us in the flesh(God, but God incarnate). Otherwise He could not "die" on the cross as He did. I wondered if then, angels are immortal. It made sense although I am open to hearing others thoughts. I am no theologian but I do love studying the Word. I would say that christians are lower than angels in that they are burdened with a body that will have to return to the dust. But after we are in paradise with our new bodies, then, as someone posted, maybe there will be a change in "ranks":)



Dubya -> RE: Who is higher, Christians or angels? (7/5/2008 10:01:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bob97

quote:

Considering this, it seems to me that God intended humanity to be higher than the angels in His created order.


Here is the point Dubya…Christ was made a little lower then the angels so He could die;

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

This point of fact puts man (in this life) in the same position…we will die. In the next phase of our existence things will be different but not today.

Regarding the interpretation that Elohim is the word used for angels does not stand up in Heb 2:6 because aggello is used there which translates to messenger and is father supported in Heb 1:14;
ang'-el-os

Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Bob

Bob97,

I agree with you on the Greek of Hebrews 2:6. It is, indeed, aggello. This tells me that the writer to the Hebrews, like many of the NT writers, was quoting Psalm 8:5 from the Septuagint - not the original Hebrew. The question then becomes why did the translators of the Septuagint translate elohim as aggello? It has been suggested that the Jewish translators were trying to avoid a cultural problem. By saying that man was made a little lower than God might sound to their greek pagan neighbors like they were making demigods out of man. I believe this is the reason the Septuagint translated Psalm 8:5 the way it is.

The writer to the Hebrews, writing under divine inspiration, correctly stated, as you said, that Christ was made a little lower than the angels so that He could experience death. I agree. But Christ is still higher (in terms of quality and worth) than the angels, wouldn't you agree? And by extention (Psalm 8:5), so is man.

Best regards,

Dubya



bob97 -> RE: Who is higher, Christians or angels? (7/5/2008 10:17:55 AM)

quote:

The writer to the Hebrews, writing under divine inspiration, correctly stated, as you said, that Christ was made a little lower than the angels so that He could experience death. I agree. But Christ is still higher (in terms of quality and worth) than the angels, wouldn't you agree? And by extention (Psalm 8:5), so is man.


Dubya...

I agree that it is the destiny of man to be higher than the angels and in the next life man will govern under Christ.

Christ today (after resurrection) is supreme…He is God. Was He higher while on earth…all I can go on is what the scripture tells us, He was made a little lower so He could test death.

I think we agree in principle, it’s the timing I’m unsure about. [:)]

Bob



Dubya -> RE: Who is higher, Christians or angels? (7/5/2008 11:13:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bob97

quote:

The writer to the Hebrews, writing under divine inspiration, correctly stated, as you said, that Christ was made a little lower than the angels so that He could experience death. I agree. But Christ is still higher (in terms of quality and worth) than the angels, wouldn't you agree? And by extention (Psalm 8:5), so is man.


Dubya...

I agree that it is the destiny of man to be higher than the angels and in the next life man will govern under Christ.

Christ today (after resurrection) is supreme…He is God. Was He higher while on earth…all I can go on is what the scripture tells us, He was made a little lower so He could test death.

I think we agree in principle, it’s the timing I’m unsure about. [:)]

Bob

Bob,

I think we do agree in principle. The only thing I might add is to consider what is meant by "higher". It appears that the fact that man experiences death but angels do not is what you are focusing on as being "higher". I do not believe that Hebrews 2:6 is implying that Christ is "lower" in a qualitative sense than angels. That would violate a host of Scriptures which identify Him as the Son of God. I believe, as you pointed out, it was only so that He could experience death. This would indicate "lower" in a positional sense but not in a qualitative or ontological sense. Based on the entirety of Scripture, I could never say that Christ was ever of lower quality than the angels.

Dubya



PeterD -> RE: Who is higher, Christians or angels? (7/5/2008 12:59:35 PM)

Revelation 22:6-9

Jesus Is Coming
6And he said to me, "These words are trustworthy and true. And the
Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, has sent his angel to show his servants what must soon take place."
7"And behold, I am coming soon. Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book."

8I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed them to me, 9 but he said to me, "You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers the prophets, and with those who keep the words of this book. Worship God."

What did the angel say,"I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers the prophets, and with those who keep the words of this book."



Beanteaser -> RE: Who is higher, Christians or angels? (7/5/2008 11:24:56 PM)

First Corinthians 6:3 says that angels shall be judged by Christians.



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