RE: DO you think children /youth worker in church should have background checks

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earthless -> RE: DO you think children /youth worker in church should have background checks (7/7/2008 12:41:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SonInMe1 Don't you think most child molestors are men? A man, who wants to work in the nursery, to me, would be somewhat suspect. Same to me - but then again that could simply be my job's perspective talking.

GroupW -> RE: DO you think children /youth worker in church should have background checks (7/7/2008 12:53:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: earthless quote: ORIGINAL: SonInMe1 Don't you think most child molestors are men? A man, who wants to work in the nursery, to me, would be somewhat suspect. Same to me - but then again that could simply be my job's perspective talking. LOL - Alas, I'm a suspect individual. Most men really do like to take care of babies. There are a few of us willing to publically admit that and work in the nursery. There's a perception within American society (a rapidly declining one, thankfully) that childrens' ministry is a woman's role. It remains fairly strong in some churches. REAL men change diapers ;) BT

rcjames -> RE: DO you think children /youth worker in church should have background checks (7/7/2008 12:59:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SonInMe1 Don't you think most child molestors are men? A man, who wants to work in the nursery, to me, would be somewhat suspect. My wife accused me 7 times of sexually abusing my kids during our custody battle. Now, I am not sure if that shows up on a bacjground check esspecially since there was absolutly no truth in them but if it is recorded somewhere...and I apply for a position at church that gets a background check...what would you think would happen to me if that information was in there? Anyone who is even remotely accused of these crimes are guilty no matter the circumstances and...I won't take that chance. First off it should not show up on a normal background check without it having gone to court. However you should relate this to any Church you intend to work with and let the leadership make the determination that it was hooey. For if you do not, that history will come back and bite you and bring public shame to the Church, and I know that is not what you want. When similiar circumstances have arised at my Churches, I contact the folks involved, the accuser, the investigation police officers, etc. and make a determination. Thsnks RC

Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: DO you think children /youth worker in church should have background checks (7/7/2008 1:01:49 PM)
Perhaps it is also my background that will not allow me to suspect a man before I would a woman; regardless, in my opinion, it is ridiculous to suspect anyone without grounds for suspicion emanating from the person her/himself, by their own actions or demeanor. Would I hire someone I know to be suspect by credible witness? No. Do I suspect people who appear to try too hard to be liked. Yes. Would I allow anyone to take care of childcare alone? No. Do I suspect adults who tend to be with much younger persons way too much in my opinion? Yes. These ideas are based upon my personal experience. _____________________________ Oh, and I need to add that we do not just do background checks on paid individuals but on ANY individual who works with children in ANY way, volunteer, paid, temporary, permanent. Everyone gets checked, including me, and I barely see children at the church where I work.

rcjames -> RE: DO you think children /youth worker in church should have background checks (7/7/2008 1:02:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrFribbles quote: Don't you think most child molestors are men? A man, who wants to work in the nursery, to me, would be somewhat suspect. Most rapists are men. Should men never be allowed to work around women? Come to think of it, most criminals are men. I suppose we should just lock all of us up, just to be safe. I certainly cannot speak for other Churched, but I run the same background and vetting on women as I do men. Many women in this fallen world are child abusers and molesters. Thanks RC

StephK -> RE: DO you think children /youth worker in church should have background checks (7/7/2008 1:13:45 PM)
I have had a criminal background check for every job I've had including church nursery positions. Anyone working with a vulnerable demographic is usually vetted prior to hiring. It's just a fact of life in some lines of work. It is a shame that we have gotten to this point but the actions of others deem it necessary.

earthless -> RE: DO you think children /youth worker in church should have background checks (7/7/2008 1:14:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GroupW quote: ORIGINAL: earthless quote: ORIGINAL: SonInMe1 Don't you think most child molestors are men? A man, who wants to work in the nursery, to me, would be somewhat suspect. Same to me - but then again that could simply be my job's perspective talking. LOL - Alas, I'm a suspect individual. Most men really do like to take care of babies. There are a few of us willing to publically admit that and work in the nursery. There's a perception within American society (a rapidly declining one, thankfully) that childrens' ministry is a woman's role. It remains fairly strong in some churches. REAL men change diapers ;) BT BT, Please don't misunderstand me, I am the diaper changing, bottle feeding, taking care of a baby king amongst men! [:D] But I don't see why I would want to do so for any baby that is not mine. In the sense that men are the most in child molester numbers and it just doesn't look right for a grown man to be caring for infant girls and boys. Changing their diapers, etc.. Sorry, it's just downright odd.

Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: DO you think children /youth worker in church should have background checks (7/7/2008 1:18:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: earthless But I don't see why I would want to do so for any baby that is not mine. In the sense that men are the most in child molester numbers and it just doesn't look right for a grown man to be caring for infant girls and boys. Changing their diapers, etc.. Sorry, it's just downright odd. Well, I'm sorry, but that is just your opinion. For those at the church where I work, it is ministry.

earthless -> RE: DO you think children /youth worker in church should have background checks (7/7/2008 1:21:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga quote: ORIGINAL: earthless But I don't see why I would want to do so for any baby that is not mine. In the sense that men are the most in child molester numbers and it just doesn't look right for a grown man to be caring for infant girls and boys. Changing their diapers, etc.. Sorry, it's just downright odd. Well, I'm sorry, but that is just your opinion. For those at the church where I work, it is ministry. They definitely are better people than me. But then again, neither my wife nor me would want a stranger to change our babies diaper. Or be with him unsupervised by us - this world is FULL of demented and evil people and many of them love taking root in our churches. Because most are lax in their policies.

Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: DO you think children /youth worker in church should have background checks (7/7/2008 1:39:19 PM)
You, Earthless, work in a position in which you deal with almost exclusively the dregs and the best of humanity. I work where I deal with average, ordinary people. These things change our perspectives about people.

earthless -> RE: DO you think children /youth worker in church should have background checks (7/7/2008 1:40:32 PM)
Abiyah, That is very true. But I had that opinion about grown men changing baby girl diapers and such from even before. But I will chalk that up to having grown up in the ghetto of an inner-city.

GroupW -> RE: DO you think children /youth worker in church should have background checks (7/7/2008 1:45:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: earthless BT, Please don't misunderstand me, I am the diaper changing, bottle feeding, taking care of a baby king amongst men! [:D] But I don't see why I would want to do so for any baby that is not mine. In the sense that men are the most in child molester numbers and it just doesn't look right for a grown man to be caring for infant girls and boys. Changing their diapers, etc.. Sorry, it's just downright odd. LOL - good for you! Question for the curious - is it OK for a woman to change the diaper of a baby that's not hers, or would you prefer that babies be changed only by their parents? While I agree that more men than women are molesters, I also think that reasonable precautions can be taken to keep this ministry for the children as well as the men and women who serve there. For me, I enjoy working with the smallest ones for reasons that are hard to explain. Maybe it's just a way to remember being able to take care of my own son. My baby-raising days are long past, so it's fun to reconnect to those days in this way. Plus, they don't talk back like the older kids & you don't have to be able to move as fast to be able to chase 'em down. BT

earthless -> RE: DO you think children /youth worker in church should have background checks (7/7/2008 1:59:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GroupW Question for the curious - is it OK for a woman to change the diaper of a baby that's not hers, or would you prefer that babies be changed only by their parents? My wife and I would prefer only us or either of his grandma's to do so. quote: ORIGINAL: GroupW While I agree that more men than women are molesters, I also think that reasonable precautions can be taken to keep this ministry for the children as well as the men and women who serve there. Call me old fashioned, paranoid, bias, etc.. but I just find it VERY odd for a grown man to want to work in a nursery with babies (those under four, etc..). I would either say they were perverts and or homosexual. ducks ESPECIALLY if they are not married and with children of their own. quote: ORIGINAL: GroupW For me, I enjoy working with the smallest ones for reasons that are hard to explain. Maybe it's just a way to remember being able to take care of my own son. My baby-raising days are long past, so it's fun to reconnect to those days in this way. Plus, they don't talk back like the older kids & you don't have to be able to move as fast to be able to chase 'em down. BT OK.

GroupW -> RE: DO you think children /youth worker in church should have background checks (7/7/2008 2:34:40 PM)
Fair 'nuff.

phosadaud -> RE: DO you think children /youth worker in church should have background checks (7/7/2008 3:57:42 PM)
We do background checks for anyone who works with any minor, for anyone in leadership and for anyone who is issued even a single key for the church. We also have strict guidelines as far as how long you can attend before you can work with our kids and strict guideline regarding how childcare is provided (ie - never alone with a child, etc). There are no exceptions. Period. And I'm glad we value our children enough to do whatever it takes to protect them. The fact is, the pedophile can be anyone. As far as men working in the nursery, I guess I have a different perspective because I grew up in a family where everyone, men and women, love babies and see caring for those babies as the responsibility of everyone. And they do a great job at it! We currently have a male children's pastor at my church who does a great job with the kids and we have a number of men (dad's, granddad's, big brothers and men who just love kids - in a good way!) who do help out in our children's department and even nursery. They range from police officers to doctors to retired engineers and farmers. Which is great, because I'm a woman who'd want to jump off a cliff if I had to work in the nursery on Sunday morning. I love kids & babies, but I get around 3 or more, and I've had it... [8D]

Qtman -> RE: DO you think children /youth worker in church should have background checks (7/7/2008 4:24:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: earthless quote: ORIGINAL: GroupW Question for the curious - is it OK for a woman to change the diaper of a baby that's not hers, or would you prefer that babies be changed only by their parents? My wife and I would prefer only us or either of his grandma's to do so. quote: ORIGINAL: GroupW While I agree that more men than women are molesters, I also think that reasonable precautions can be taken to keep this ministry for the children as well as the men and women who serve there. Call me old fashioned, paranoid, bias, etc.. but I just find it VERY odd for a grown man to want to work in a nursery with babies (those under four, etc..). I would either say they were perverts and or homosexual. ducks ESPECIALLY if they are not married and with children of their own. quote: ORIGINAL: GroupW For me, I enjoy working with the smallest ones for reasons that are hard to explain. Maybe it's just a way to remember being able to take care of my own son. My baby-raising days are long past, so it's fun to reconnect to those days in this way. Plus, they don't talk back like the older kids & you don't have to be able to move as fast to be able to chase 'em down. BT OK. This is the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard. You are going to use a blanket label of pervert of Homosexual on men just because they are willing to work in a church nursery. I can't believe that. I myself have worked in the nursery at church and I am neither a pervert nor homosexual. Would you prefer to have your baby sit for an hour in a dirty or wet diaper than have some else ( a man for instance) change that diaper?

earthless -> RE: DO you think children /youth worker in church should have background checks (7/7/2008 4:30:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Qtman This is the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard. You are going to use a blanket label of pervert of Homosexual on men just because they are willing to work in a church nursery. I can't believe that. Which is why I prefaced my comment with, "this may be old-fashioned, closed-minded, etc of me.." It's an opinion, doesn't mean it's a good one but I am indeed entitled to it. quote: ORIGINAL: Qtman I myself have worked in the nursery at church and I am neither a pervert nor homosexual. Are you married with children? Were you dealing with babies, etc? quote: ORIGINAL: Qtman Would you prefer to have your baby sit for an hour in a dirty or wet diaper than have some else ( a man for instance) change that diaper? This is why my baby is attended to by my wife or me.

Qtman -> RE: DO you think children /youth worker in church should have background checks (7/7/2008 4:39:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: earthless quote: ORIGINAL: Qtman This is the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard. You are going to use a blanket label of pervert of Homosexual on men just because they are willing to work in a church nursery. I can't believe that. Which is why I prefaced my comment with, "this may be old-fashioned, closed-minded, etc of me.." It's an opinion, doesn't mean it's a good one but I am indeed entitled to it. quote: ORIGINAL: Qtman I myself have worked in the nursery at church and I am neither a pervert nor homosexual. Are you married with children? Were you dealing with babies, etc? quote: ORIGINAL: Qtman Would you prefer to have your baby sit for an hour in a dirty or wet diaper than have some else ( a man for instance) change that diaper? This is why my baby is attended to by my wife or me. I am married and we did have children. Both now grown BTW. And I did deal with babies in diapers. I actually feel more comfortable changing a babies diaper, male or female, than I would keeping 4 or 5 year olds. So in your opinion what does that make me. No never mind don't answer that. I think you already have.

earthless -> RE: DO you think children /youth worker in church should have background checks (7/7/2008 4:51:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Qtman I am married and we did have children. Both now grown BTW. And I did deal with babies in diapers. I actually feel more comfortable changing a babies diaper, male or female, than I would keeping 4 or 5 year olds. So in your opinion what does that make me. No never mind don't answer that. I think you already have. Friend, it was said in closed-minded awareness/tongue in cheek. I guess sarcasm is lost on some, I am reminded of the "Are some Christians too easily offended?" thread. My opinion on grown men with no kids and not married even wanting to so badly work with babies and little kids stands, it is odd. If I am wrong for holding that opinion, then it is what it is.

2shaye -> RE: DO you think children /youth worker in church should have background checks (7/7/2008 5:05:20 PM)
Absolutely I think anyone working with kids needs a background check. BTW, my son, when he was 18-20 worked as a nanny for four kids. He also did a lot of babysitting when he was younger. Both my husband and my son have worked in the nursery. Our church nursery has a man in there helping at least twice a month. We are a small church, and usually the workers are the parents of the babies. If mom is in the choir or involved in another ministry on her nursery day, the dad will fill in. Earthless, I honestly think your way of thinking is strange. I know you are entitled, but I think it's strange.

Qtman -> RE: DO you think children /youth worker in church should have background checks (7/7/2008 5:11:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: earthless quote: ORIGINAL: Qtman I am married and we did have children. Both now grown BTW. And I did deal with babies in diapers. I actually feel more comfortable changing a babies diaper, male or female, than I would keeping 4 or 5 year olds. So in your opinion what does that make me. No never mind don't answer that. I think you already have. Friend, it was said in closed-minded awareness/tongue in cheek. I guess sarcasm is lost on some, I am reminded of the "Are some Christians too easily offended?" thread. My opinion on grown men with no kids and not married even wanting to so badly work with babies and little kids stands, it is odd. If I am wrong for holding that opinion, then it is what it is. Oh! I believe it was said in closed-minded awareness. But not tongue in cheek. That indicates you were making a funny and I don't believe this to be the case. Also you do not know me very well. I am a six year veteran serving in the late sixties and early seventies. I am also a 29 year employee in law enforcement. So I have seen my share of perverts. Those who do know me will tell you I am about as easily offended as I am intimidated or impressed. None of them happen very often. I am however, somewhat embarrassed that a Christian and member of my chosen profession wold have such closed-minded opinions.

earthless -> RE: DO you think children /youth worker in church should have background checks (7/7/2008 5:14:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: 2shaye Earthless, I honestly think your way of thinking is strange. I know you are entitled, but I think it's strange. Like I said earlier on - it could definitely be attributed to the following: 1) Having been born and raised in the inner-city (ghetto, not Mayberry) 2) Being a cop in this same inner-city 3) Having close family who were sexually molested by grown men.

earthless -> RE: DO you think children /youth worker in church should have background checks (7/7/2008 5:16:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Qtman quote: ORIGINAL: earthless quote: ORIGINAL: Qtman I am married and we did have children. Both now grown BTW. And I did deal with babies in diapers. I actually feel more comfortable changing a babies diaper, male or female, than I would keeping 4 or 5 year olds. So in your opinion what does that make me. No never mind don't answer that. I think you already have. Friend, it was said in closed-minded awareness/tongue in cheek. I guess sarcasm is lost on some, I am reminded of the "Are some Christians too easily offended?" thread. My opinion on grown men with no kids and not married even wanting to so badly work with babies and little kids stands, it is odd. If I am wrong for holding that opinion, then it is what it is. Oh! I believe it was said in closed-minded awareness. But not tongue in cheek. That indicates you were making a funny and I don't believe this to be the case. Also you do not know me very well. I am a six year veteran serving in the late sixties and early seventies. I am also a 29 year employee in law enforcement. So I have seen my share of perverts. Those who do know me will tell you I am about as easily offended as I am intimidated or impressed. None of them happen very often. I am however, somewhat embarrassed that a Christian and member of my chosen profession wold have such closed-minded opinions. Thanks for your comments, but you won't be changing my babies diapers. I know I am not the only one with a problem with grown men alone in nurseries with babies that are not their own.

Qtman -> RE: DO you think children /youth worker in church should have background checks (7/7/2008 5:21:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: earthless quote: ORIGINAL: Qtman quote: ORIGINAL: earthless quote: ORIGINAL: Qtman I am married and we did have children. Both now grown BTW. And I did deal with babies in diapers. I actually feel more comfortable changing a babies diaper, male or female, than I would keeping 4 or 5 year olds. So in your opinion what does that make me. No never mind don't answer that. I think you already have. Friend, it was said in closed-minded awareness/tongue in cheek. I guess sarcasm is lost on some, I am reminded of the "Are some Christians too easily offended?" thread. My opinion on grown men with no kids and not married even wanting to so badly work with babies and little kids stands, it is odd. If I am wrong for holding that opinion, then it is what it is. Oh! I believe it was said in closed-minded awareness. But not tongue in cheek. That indicates you were making a funny and I don't believe this to be the case. Also you do not know me very well. I am a six year veteran serving in the late sixties and early seventies. I am also a 29 year employee in law enforcement. So I have seen my share of perverts. Those who do know me will tell you I am about as easily offended as I am intimidated or impressed. None of them happen very often. I am however, somewhat embarrassed that a Christian and member of my chosen profession wold have such closed-minded opinions. Thanks for your comments, but you won't be changing my babies diapers. I know I am not the only one with a problem with grown men alone in nurseries with babies that are not their own. I would say tha chances of that are zero also. Especially since we live in different parts of the country. BTW some years ago I would not have thought twice about being left alone in a church nursery. These days I would not recommend anyone work in one alone. Male or female there needs to be more than one. For the same reason I will not interrogate a female suspect without another female officer present. Just makes good sense to me.

earthless -> RE: DO you think children /youth worker in church should have background checks (7/7/2008 5:23:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Qtman I would say tha chances of that are zero also. Especially since we live in different parts of the country. BTW some years ago I would not have thought twice about being left alone in a church nursery. These days I would not recommend anyone work in one alone. Male or female there needs to be more than one. For the same reason I will not interrogate a female suspect without another female officer present. Just makes good sense to me. That makes absolutely perfect sense.

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