TRUE COMMUNITY IN THE CHURCH. (Full Version)

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rmoore1925 -> TRUE COMMUNITY IN THE CHURCH. (7/3/2008 8:19:34 PM)

Do you think building true community in the church is difficult because we live in a We live in a trustless culture?

Ex
Is she telling the truth? Is he trying to rip me off? Who might stab me in the back?



Liveloved -> RE: TRUE COMMUNITY IN THE CHURCH. (7/3/2008 8:27:39 PM)

I think building true community in the church is difficult because there are few who know Christ and what true community is and desire it. Read about true community in I Thessalonians or Acts and then we'll have something to talk about. True community is sharing our very lives with one another. Today people's lives are filled with stuff, activities, family, and on and on. Much of the church is the same. There is little or no desire.



RJR_fan -> RE: TRUE COMMUNITY IN THE CHURCH. (7/3/2008 9:55:47 PM)

quote:

Do you think building true community in the church is difficult because we live in a We live in a trustless culture?


This is a sociological question. America is a "low context" culture that highly values autonomy, independence, the self. A friend who had been a missionary in China has reverse cultural shock uon returning to the USA. He was lonely. In China, neighbors knew one another, cared for one another, helped one another. And they weren't even Christians.

Try this experiment: invite people from your church over for dinner, one family at a time. See how long this goes on before someone returns the invitation.

Over the last three years, I've eaten with Turkish Muslims far more often then I have with people inside my own church.

Something is wrong, here. Deeply wrong. The question is, how do we go about fixing it?



lightshineon -> RE: TRUE COMMUNITY IN THE CHURCH. (7/3/2008 9:59:23 PM)

Well yes, I do in one sense, and no in another. I am leaving a church after ten years, but love my church family still. The country club atmosphere created by leadership makes it hard to say we are one.



Liveloved -> RE: TRUE COMMUNITY IN THE CHURCH. (7/3/2008 10:40:55 PM)

quote:

Something is wrong, here. Deeply wrong. The question is, how do we go about fixing it?


I agree. Something is wrong. But Christ is the answer. And I think the lack of community, true community, is a reflection of what is missing.



RJR_fan -> RE: TRUE COMMUNITY IN THE CHURCH. (7/4/2008 4:27:43 PM)

quote:

But Christ is the answer. And I think the lack of community, true community, is a reflection of what is missing.


Yet, every one of those families that "never got around" to returning the invitation confesses Christ, so your "answer," doesn't.



rcjames -> RE: TRUE COMMUNITY IN THE CHURCH. (7/4/2008 4:35:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rmoore1925

Do you think building true community in the church is difficult because we live in a We live in a trustless culture?


Well I live in a Christian culture that happen to be located here on this earth and n the world. So I so not live in a trustless culture.

I am a little confused about your question.


Thanks
RC



Liveloved -> RE: TRUE COMMUNITY IN THE CHURCH. (7/4/2008 5:54:21 PM)

quote:

Yet, every one of those families that "never got around" to returning the invitation confesses Christ, so your "answer," doesn't.


Perhaps you need to read what I said more carefully. . . what is missing? There is a verbal and intellectual assent but if the life does not reflect His life, what do you have? That is not to say that we don't have babes and all stages in the spiritual growth process represented in the church---we do. But many who say Lord, Lord, are not. Jesus said that few find His way. I think the lack of true Christian community is a sign of our real lack, our real and desperate need in the church visible. And that need is for Jesus.



TrustingGod -> RE: TRUE COMMUNITY IN THE CHURCH. (7/4/2008 6:09:04 PM)

I think there are many reasons:
People don't trust other people - afraid to get hurt or to get too involved (you might be asked to do something for them)
We are a fast-food society and don't make time for relationships (let alone close, committed ones)
We are too busy - working, running the kids around, serving the church/community
The computer (or other "hobbies") have taken over our lives - too many people would rather stay inside than be outside where people are!

The enemy loves that we have little contact with others. Being isolated keeps us from sharing the good news of salvation. It also keeps us from getting the support or community that so many people are craving. I spent 4.5 hours over dinner with my sister and loved it. Yet I don't know the last time we did that. When I lost my mother last month, I didn't have any friends to call for support - I just have a bunch of good acquaintenances. This is my fault - I haven't built those relationships - mainly due to past hurts from "friends."

If community is lacking in the church we need to blame ourselves as individuals. I believe the church (at least mine) is set up for community but we fail to make the one-on-one connections we need to.

Happy 4th of July! [sm=flagamerican.jpg]



RJR_fan -> RE: TRUE COMMUNITY IN THE CHURCH. (7/4/2008 9:23:45 PM)

quote:


If community is lacking in the church we need to blame ourselves as individuals.


In a fallen world, there is always room for improvement, always room for growth -- starting with ourselves. May our God help us to become answers to the problem.

(My condolences on the loss of your mother. My parents are in their 80s ... )



swtonscrappn -> RE: TRUE COMMUNITY IN THE CHURCH. (7/5/2008 1:44:26 AM)

Actually, I think its both our independent lifestyles that we pursue as well as the fact that our increased oppurtunites for transportation has moved us farther and farther (and repeatedly) from long term relationships. We no longer live in the neighborhoods we did growing up. We change cities and jobs far more often than any of our predessors, shorting lifespans of our relationships. We work farther from homes (longer commutes), reducing time we have to make relationships. We are also pursuing the all-mighty dollars and career oppurtunities over relationships.



BlackCapnHarlock -> RE: TRUE COMMUNITY IN THE CHURCH. (7/5/2008 9:08:02 AM)

I think the racial divisions and social divisions combine to keep us from having true community in Christ more than our nation's "independent spirit." There is a lot of distrust toward "strangers" these days as many have fallen victim to con men and predators masking as Christians through out the years.



doinkdom -> RE: TRUE COMMUNITY IN THE CHURCH. (7/5/2008 9:17:50 AM)

IMO we are prideful...we want community as long as it is convenient for us and doesn't require too much sacrifice on our part. IOW, we give it lip service but when it comes down to it, are we really committed to it. Are we willing to share our lives, all of it, with others?

IMO again, it's not hard. But it does take commitment, it does take us trusting God fully with everything. I may not trust a stranger coming into our covenant community, but I can trust God that He knows what is best for me, what is good for me and allow the Holy Spirit to guide us.

Living in community requires us to be rid of self-centeredness, to be willing to give and love without agenda.

I think it can be done - we are striving for that now within our own church. It does take some communication and sacrifice that is foreign in our culture.



Strategon -> RE: TRUE COMMUNITY IN THE CHURCH. (7/5/2008 7:46:24 PM)

I think wall-e preaches a good message about this. How can we have a true community, when most people approach church as consumers? The Movie Wall-e is preaching a power message:


The over arching message of this movie couldn't be clearer: we exist to consume and don't really care about the consequences. While Wall-e has a great message for humanity in general, it especially hits a bulls-eye when relating it to the consumer church mentality that is making church people so retarded these days.

The "Consumer Christian" is the new profile for church goers in the current culture. The profile in a nut-shell is:

1. "Church" is a product to be consumed, not an organic community that they contribute to and participate in.
2. If church doesn't have the product that they are looking for, then they change churches like they do the channels on their new big screen tv's that they bought with their economic stimulus checks.
3. They want junk food more than quality food: "Give me the super-sized value meal of entertainment; but I'll take a small sermon with beef substitute (lots of fluff but no substance), and make sure it comes with lots of visuals and doesn't last more than 15 minutes.

The most unfortunate part of this is that pastor's and ministry leaders are more than willing to cater to the consumer Christian mindset, in order to keep the great ministry machine running and attracting new consumers. After all, if you produce good quality entertainment, with a little bit of Bible thrown in, at least the consumer's are willing to pay for it. The pastor's are happy because they have money; the consumer's are happy because they have entertainment with a little Jesus thrown in; and God is happy because He is getting the quality disciples that He is looking for.

Oh wait….rewind….

That's where the problem lies: everyone is getting what they want except God.

The religion of consumerism that has overrun the modern church can't produce real disciples! It produces great looking counterfeits that are skilled in Christian banter and outfitted with the latest Christian t-shirts and bumper stickers; but inwardly there isn't much evidence of a true revelation of Christ and the fruit that accompanies it.

The saddiest part of all is that Wall-e quite possibly is preaching a message that has more truth and content than can be heard in many churchesL.



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