Sharia Law in America? (Full Version)

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galadriel2 -> Sharia Law in America? (7/6/2008 2:59:45 AM)

I noticed that Britain is having to deal with some Muslims wanting Sharia Law to be honored in Britain. In America some Muslims have pushed for separate workout rooms for men and women at public athletic clubs, etc.. I think when it comes to the adoption of Sharia Law we need the 'gentle dogmatism' that A. W. Tozer tallks about and say 'no'. 'It isn't part of our culture and historical texts.'

I think that Nebuchadezzar and Daniel and their relationship is a perfect example of the balanced assimilation of one culture into another. Nebuchadezzar required that Daniel and his friends learn the Babylonian culture - its language and texts (literature) - he gave even more freedom to people not chosen to be the King's helpers. But Daniel was solid enough with the Lord to know what not to compromise on and to not do it. As a result God honored him and he was influential in King Nebuchadezzar getting saved and he influenced subsequent royalty and elite probably even to the point of contributing to the eventual edict of King Cyrus to build God a house in Jerusalem by his influence for Christ in the Babylonian and then subsequently the Persian empire.

God bless,
Galadriel2



galadriel2 -> RE: Sharia Law in America? (7/6/2008 3:16:25 AM)

We should also just say, "No, because it is sinful," and then explain in detail why it is.

God bless all,
Galadriel2



scutus -> RE: Sharia Law in America? (7/6/2008 6:50:42 AM)

quote:

I noticed that Britain is having to deal with some Muslims wanting Sharia Law to be honored in Britain. In America some Muslims have pushed for separate workout rooms for men and women at public athletic clubs, etc.. I think when it comes to the adoption of Sharia Law we need the 'gentle dogmatism' that A. W. Tozer tallks about and say 'no'. 'It isn't part of our culture and historical texts.'
I'm sorry, I must be missing your point. Why? Is it against the law now to pander to religious sensitivities?



WormHeart -> RE: Sharia Law in America? (7/6/2008 6:55:01 AM)

Are you concerned that Sharia Law would be imposed in the US?

Never going to happen. The courts consitently strike down any mix of law and religion (mainly Christianity), so there is zero risk of it happening.

Only way would be an armed overtaking of the entire nation. That is beyond science fiction.

WormHeart



PaleHawkWoman -> RE: Sharia Law in America? (7/6/2008 12:35:32 PM)

Personally I see nothing wrong with separate work-out space for men and women. Some athletic clubs have for many years had separate days for men and women to use the facilities. However, that should be a choice, not proscribed by law, as many couples enjoy working out together.

The laws and customs of any religion are not allowed to over-ride the Constitution in order to keep religion from oppressing citizens or being oppressed by authorities. Tolerance is required between practitioners of the various faiths so that the rights of all are upheld.

Some Muslims seem to have the attitude that their beliefs should over-ride everyone else's and they start screaming about such things as being able to hear church bells from their mosque as being an offense to Islam.

Some Christians seem to have similar attitudes- never having learned that respecting the beliefs of others (including other christian denominations) is not compromising their beliefs and they act in very judgemental, harsh, and un-Christlike behavior towards others.

The same can be said of members of other faiths as well as some agnostics and atheists.

Tolerance of religious belief is Constitutional Law, thank God. It is necessary to make sure that everyone understands that and the argument must be made in a logical and reasonable tone. It must also be upheld by the local, state, and federal authorities no matter who is making the case to usurp it. And parents, teach this to your kids yourselves rather than waiting for civic class to do so. Chances are it won't even be discussed.



SonInMe1 -> RE: Sharia Law in America? (7/6/2008 11:33:28 PM)

If a gym can bring in more business by making seperate work out areas then...so be it.

If a restaraunt can bring in more business by allowing their patrons to smoke...so be it. Or provide a smoke free enviroment...so be it.

If a gym makes more money and brings in more customers by saying its customers must excersize in the nude...so be it.

I'll just go to the one that makes me more comforatble.



galadriel2 -> RE: Sharia Law in America? (7/7/2008 7:58:09 AM)

When you read James Madison's writings you will find that he was all for religious freedom and freedom of speech unless the exercise of it ended up violating the liberties of others or threatened the existence of the State. When Sharia law is practiced it ends up violating the freedoms of other individuals. It is similar to homosexuality in that when homosexuality is practiced - really - in the long run it ends up threatening the existence of the State as the relationship doesn't reproduce any humans. It also violates the right of the child to grow up in a non-perverse relationship.

God bless all abundantly,
Galadriel2

'That your love may abound more and more in knowledge and in all discernment so that you may approve the things that are best (excellent), that you may be sincere and without offense till the day of Christ' (Phil. 1:9, 10)



galadriel2 -> RE: Sharia Law in America? (7/7/2008 8:00:00 AM)

It is more important to uphold the principles of good law than what makes one comfortable. America is meant to be a better nation than that.

God bless all,
Have to go [:)] Galadriel2



galadriel2 -> RE: Sharia Law in America? (7/7/2008 9:51:13 AM)

Thank you everyone for the good imput. To add and reiterate a wee bit - if a Muslim group wants to open an Islamic gym with separate workout rooms for the men and women - that doesn't violate anyone else's freedom/rights - but to ask a private gym or something like that to change its rules - this goes over the line of one of the foundational tenets that America is all about and that is also key to her prosperity.

As far as your input Wormheart about a takeover of America by Islam - I'm not so concerned about that as about just a bit by bit movement away from America's foundational documents and what they stand for: the Constitution, Declaration of Independence, the Bible, the Gettysburg Address - things of that sort. I trust James Madison and the system that the Founders set up. I don't trust very much of what is going on in contemporary America right now.

God bless,
Galadriel2



davemiller7 -> RE: Sharia Law in America? (7/7/2008 3:22:10 PM)

Yep! That's called private enterprise. If a private organization or company can open a gym (or any other type place) that conforms to Sharia (or Buddhist, Hindu, etc.) laws, more power to them - so long as those "laws" remain within the confines of that building, flat, or grounds and don't affect anyone or anything outside those boundaries.

-Dave

quote:

ORIGINAL: galadriel2

Thank you everyone for the good imput. To add and reiterate a wee bit - if a Muslim group wants to open an Islamic gym with separate workout rooms for the men and women - that doesn't violate anyone else's freedom/rights - but to ask a private gym or something like that to change its rules - this goes over the line of one of the foundational tenets that America is all about and that is also key to her prosperity.




galadriel2 -> RE: Sharia Law in America? (7/8/2008 8:32:29 AM)

Cal Thomas put out a good article today called 'Surrender' - how Britain is giving up excellent principles of law and just surrendering to Sharia law. It's no good. I sent a response e-mail to him and complemented him on his article and then put in a reminder that we become what we envision God to be like. In Islam you have a religion that is a concoction - a concoction of a god of pantheistic force, low and superficial morality, Talmudic tradition, and animism that is eloquently dressed up, 'buttressed with theology', so that it now appears to possess 'divine sanction'. If we don't think all this false teaching will have an adverse effect on people we had better think again.

We need to speak the truth in love to these people, refuse their law, and depend on the Lord to change them.

God bless,
Galadriel2

...'that you may approve the things that are excellent' (Phil. 1:10a)



davemiller7 -> RE: Sharia Law in America? (7/8/2008 9:47:06 AM)

Amen. Thanx for e-mailing Cal Thomas. He's a great force in our nation.
-Dave

quote:

ORIGINAL: galadriel2

Cal Thomas put out a good article today called 'Surrender' - how Britain is giving up excellent principles of law and just surrendering to Sharia law. It's no good. I sent a response e-mail to him and complemented him on his article and then put in a reminder that we become what we envision God to be like. In Islam you have a religion that is a concoction - a concoction of a god of pantheistic force, low and superficial morality, Talmudic tradition, and animism that is eloquently dressed up, 'buttressed with theology', so that it now appears to possess 'divine sanction'. If we don't think all this false teaching will have an adverse effect on people we had better think again.

We need to speak the truth in love to these people, refuse their law, and depend on the Lord to change them.

God bless,
Galadriel2

...'that you may approve the things that are excellent' (Phil. 1:10a)



doodah62 -> RE: Sharia Law in America? (7/8/2008 12:06:11 PM)

My response is to Gladheart who is SO sure Sharia Law would never be implemented in America. You need to read "Slavery, Terrorism & Islam" Contemporary Threat" by Dr. Peter Hammond. In his book, he explains how Islam in not just a religion or a cult, it is a complete system--religious, legal, political, economic & military. Religious component masks the others. Islamization occurs when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their so-called "religious rights". When politically correct and culturally diverse societies agree to "the reasonable Muslim demands" for their "religious rights" they also get the other components under the table.
World Book of FActs 2007 lists our Muslim population at 1.0%, Britian at 2.7%. Anything under 2.0% usually no problems, but over that, the problems begin. Demanding self-governing under Sharia Law does not usually happen until around 5% and over, but already they are pushing for it in Britian. You would do well to educate yourself with how their system works. Remember, our G & L population is only around 1% and look what they are able to demand as their RIGHTS.



rcjames -> RE: Sharia Law in America? (7/8/2008 12:26:42 PM)

Does Sharia law sanction "Honor Killings"?


Thanks
RC



galadriel2 -> RE: Sharia Law in America? (7/8/2008 12:48:08 PM)

I think, Wormheart, what I am also concerned about is that God is going to judge America and we aren't going to be able to change His mind on this one. From what I can tell, Al-Qaeda is still organized, calling the shots from the top down, and we haven't stopped that. In view of this and 45 million unborn Americans murdered by the conspiracy of their mothers and doctors via abortion, and other things wrong with America, I am concerned that we aren't going to thwart God's judgment much longer and another attack bigger than 9/11 is looming in our future - not because we won't accept Islam, but because we won't receive Christ - to whom the Word says: 'But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name'. I mean what a gift - to be a child of God - and what a gift to treat with contempt especially when it cost God so much to make it available to men. I'm not saying there isn't still a lot of good in America, but wow, we have so much sin.

God bless all,
Galadriel2



galadriel2 -> RE: Sharia Law in America? (7/8/2008 1:00:41 PM)

Good question RC. I don't know if Sharia law sanctions honor killings...let me check my Hadith (a collection of Muhammad's ideas that aren't in the Qur'an) and see if there is anything in there...

...I looked in the marriage and divorce sections and didn't see anything in the Hadith - but I have a shortened version of the Hadith and the Hadith isn't the same thing as Sharia law. My instincts tell me that honor killings are ok in Sharia law, but I am just guessing. I would doubt that they are in the Hadith though.

God bless,
Galadriel2



davemiller7 -> RE: Sharia Law in America? (7/8/2008 2:15:51 PM)

Does this answer your question, RC?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,377044,00.html

-Dave

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

Does Sharia law sanction "Honor Killings"?


Thanks
RC



rcjames -> RE: Sharia Law in America? (7/8/2008 3:27:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: davemiller7

Does this answer your question, RC?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,377044,00.html

-Dave

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

Does Sharia law sanction "Honor Killings"?


Thanks
RC



I saw a couple of "Experts" one from Pakistan interviewed yesterday and all I learned was that they really know how to dance on the head of a pin.

Thanks
RC



davemiller7 -> RE: Sharia Law in America? (7/8/2008 3:45:32 PM)

I like that expression "dance on the head of a pin." [:D]

-Dave

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: davemiller7

Does this answer your question, RC?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,377044,00.html

-Dave

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

Does Sharia law sanction "Honor Killings"?


Thanks
RC



I saw a couple of "Experts" one from Pakistan interviewed yesterday and all I learned was that they really know how to dance on the head of a pin.

Thanks
RC



anniec57 -> RE: Sharia Law in America? (7/10/2008 11:21:47 AM)

The laws of the nation should trump religious law. THe laws of the nation govern everyone and justice is meted out fairly, or should be. Sharia Law cannot be enforced in any democratic society. LEt the customs of Sharia Law be allowed, not made into law. Separation of the sexes takes place in this country already. It is not mandated by law with just a few possible exceptions. Follow the constitution. No custom of Sharia Law should violate any law of this country. We are all one people here, We are all countrymen now. WE all must live by the same laws. Customs vary from group to group, but the law must be the same and justice and mercy given to everyone according to the law.



rnershigh -> RE: Sharia Law in America? (7/10/2008 3:16:51 PM)

Whatever a person wants to do within their own home, or their mosques, .I don't care.
But as long as it's not breaking any laws in this country it should be okay.

But if it is a public building or public thoroughfare, I'm not sure we need to be so accomodating.
I can understand about wanting to placate those whose religion states they have to do so and so, you know, we all have the freedom to worship as we wish....but how much is too much?

Would they expect banks to not charge interest on loans (I think I read somewhere Muslims can't accept loans with interest)?
What about alcohol, would someone be offended if restaurants served alcohol?
What about employment?
What if a Muslim were to get a job where they'd have to work in an area that makes them come into contact of a "forbidden" thing in their religion?
Pork, dog, alcohol, etc. (I'm thinking of those airport cab drivers that refused to let passengers on that had dogs or alcohol).

There has to be a balance, I think it is more than fair to allow people to worship as they wish in private, but then to expect every fabric of society to accomodate the smallest detail is impractical.
In those cases, if a person is wanting sharia law, they'd probably be more happy living in a country that offers sharia law.



davemiller7 -> RE: Sharia Law in America? (7/10/2008 3:58:59 PM)

Amen!
-Dave

quote:

ORIGINAL: rnershigh

Whatever a person wants to do within their own home, or their mosques, .I don't care.
But as long as it's not breaking any laws in this country it should be okay.

But if it is a public building or public thoroughfare, I'm not sure we need to be so accomodating.
I can understand about wanting to placate those whose religion states they have to do so and so, you know, we all have the freedom to worship as we wish....but how much is too much?

Would they expect banks to not charge interest on loans (I think I read somewhere Muslims can't accept loans with interest)?
What about alcohol, would someone be offended if restaurants served alcohol?
What about employment?
What if a Muslim were to get a job where they'd have to work in an area that makes them come into contact of a "forbidden" thing in their religion?
Pork, dog, alcohol, etc. (I'm thinking of those airport cab drivers that refused to let passengers on that had dogs or alcohol).

There has to be a balance, I think it is more than fair to allow people to worship as they wish in private, but then to expect every fabric of society to accomodate the smallest detail is impractical.
In those cases, if a person is wanting sharia law, they'd probably be more happy living in a country that offers sharia law.



PaleHawkWoman -> RE: Sharia Law in America? (7/10/2008 11:41:10 PM)

Sharia law is a theocratic system based upon religious enforcement of tribal/religious customs. What we have here in the US is actually civil law which has been designed to be religiously neutral so as to protect all religions from oppression/oppressing. Religious freedom must, however, operate within the boundaries of the civil law.

Most muslim countries are theocracies where one religion has primacy and oppression of other religions is the norm. All levels of government and law enforcement are operated in accordance to sharia, that is Islamic law. Religious belief dictates social order and action, and Islam has a brutal view of how that order is to be maintained.

In a secular nation this simply will not work.



scutus -> RE: Sharia Law in America? (7/11/2008 1:02:20 AM)

quote:


Most muslim countries are theocracies where one religion has primacy and oppression of other religions is the norm.
That's not true. Most Muslim countries are democracies.



fiat_lux -> RE: Sharia Law in America? (7/11/2008 1:24:39 AM)

quote:

That's not true. Most Muslim countries are democracies.

Let's not go too far here. Some Muslim countries have some democratic institutions, but it would be a bit of a stretch to say that most of them are democratic in the way that we here understand democracy.



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