RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink.
View related threads:
(in this forum
| in all forums)
|
Logged in as: Guest
|
|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 2:11:18 PM
|
|
|
bluestone
Posts: 2934
Joined: 2/25/2008
From: United States of America
Status: offline
|
Good post, jimbo.
A previous thread along these same lines reminds me that many Christians equate moderate drinking with drunkenness and alcoholism, to the point of lying from the pulpit to say that wine in the Bible did not contain alcohol!
I sometimes wonder is the temperance movement did more harm than good. You certainly don't see these debates among European believers.
So many of these ideas are based on intellectual dishonesty. Backing up a popular myth with lies.
_____________________________
I need Christ. Not something that resembles Christ.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 2:15:45 PM
|
|
|
JimboFletch
Posts: 5848
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
quote:
If you cannot remain holy in the midst of sinners, then I agree that you should stay away from them as much as possible.
Jimbo, you certainly have a knack for twisting things. I said nothing about remaining holy in a sinners setting. I have no desire to offend my father after He He given such Grace and Mercy to me. But if you desire to flip Him off go right ahead.
Really? I thought that's what you were saying here in post 63:
quote:
We are called to holiness, and that just will not be found in a bar or hanging out with sinners living i continuing sin.
Did you have a have a special meaning that's not obvious to this old codger?
Oh, and where did YOU get that I was doing something I don't practice to my Heavenly Father - and how is it you know about such a thing???????? And why aren't YOU willing to extend grace & mercy to others?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 2:19:04 PM
|
|
|
JimboFletch
Posts: 5848
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: bluestone
Good post, jimbo.
A previous thread along these same lines reminds me that many Christians equate moderate drinking with drunkenness and alcoholism, to the point of lying from the pulpit to say that wine in the Bible did not contain alcohol!
I sometimes wonder is the temperance movement did more harm than good. You certainly don't see these debates among European believers.
So many of these ideas are based on intellectual dishonesty. Backing up a popular myth with lies.
I'm beginning to wonder how some people are so certain about all the obvious sinning that's going on in bars with Christians and the lost if they have no firsthand knowledge... Think it's osmosis?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 2:26:42 PM
|
|
|
drmark
Posts: 3109
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
I wasn't asking you sir, but I don't suppose any of the stores you frequent sell mind altering chemicals (including alcohol) or pornographic magazines or have immoral employees, owners, or patrons. Please do tell us what other products the patrons of a bar are interested in purchasing and using for chemical-induced self-serving pleasure. I'm not procuring alcohol and tobacco when I frequent my neighborhood grocery store. Are groceries available at your neighborhood bar? Are you really not seeing the difference here or just honing your sarcasm skills?
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 2:34:38 PM
|
|
|
JimboFletch
Posts: 5848
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
...I'm not procuring alcohol and tobacco when I frequent my neighborhood grocery store..
No sir, but your patronage supports people who make and sell them. Time was when holiness folk would have nothing to do with any business that sold alcohol, tobacco, or porn. Now y'all have made accommodations for them because it's too inconvenient to maintain those standards. I wouldn't be surprised to learn y'all have started going to restaurants or buying & selling on Sunday - a huge taboo years ago.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 2:40:23 PM
|
|
|
deliveredarling
Posts: 1733
Status: offline
|
quote:
quote:
We are called to holiness, and that just will not be found in a bar or hanging out with sinners living i continuing sin.
Did you have a have a special meaning that's not obvious to this old codger?
The word that is referring to holiness. Holiness will not be found in a bar.
quote:
Oh, and where did YOU get that I was doing something I don't practice to my Heavenly Father - and how is it you know about such a thing???????? And why aren't YOU willing to extend grace & mercy to others?
I didn't say that you weren't practicing something?????? The thing that I know is what you have posted here. Your position is that it is ok to be in a bar and that whole gamut. Based on your words, you feel that being in a sinning setting van be done without sin and corruption. i feel like that is flipping the Father off. I don't know if that's what you do, and personally, I just don't care if you do. That is between you and Him.
Where do you get a lack of Grace and Mercy from me from? My unwillingness to participate in a bar setting or otherwise undesirable setting has nothing to do with my willingness or unwillingness to extend Grace and Mercy. What other people do, is not my business. It harms me in no way shape or form. It's a personal choice for each one of us. Who am I to extend a warped sense of grace and Mercy for an offense that was not committed to me? Sorry, but I don't equate myself with the Father. Grace and Mercy in those situations is His call, not mine.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 2:47:22 PM
|
|
|
JimboFletch
Posts: 5848
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
The word that is referring to holiness. Holiness will not be found in a bar.
Right. Holiness will not be found living the rest of your entire life inside a church building. Holiness comes from our Savior alone or it's worthless.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 2:52:53 PM
|
|
|
JimboFletch
Posts: 5848
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
I didn't say that you weren't practicing something??????
Go back and read your post again. You're lecturing me on holiness but you used a phrase that embarrasses me to even repeat because it is an obscene gesture that I have not ever used in the 41 years since I was born again. Ever.
I don't frequent bars, but I would rather spend the evening in one than ever do to my Father or accuse another believer of doing what you threw at me without the slightest twinge from your conscience.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 2:56:55 PM
|
|
|
JimboFletch
Posts: 5848
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
...Based on your words, you feel that being in a sinning setting van be done without sin and corruption...
I have, as previously noted, been in worse settings than a bar without sin and corruption. A holiness that can't, isn't worth a hill of beans.
And you made reference to that obscene gesture a second time without your "holiness" knocking on your heart's door. You have no idea how telling that is and how amazed that makes me.
Seriously.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 2:58:51 PM
|
|
|
deliveredarling
Posts: 1733
Status: offline
|
Nowhere in any of my posts did I even remotely suggest that the Christian is supposed to dawn the steps of the church building every time it is open in order to be holy. It 's really simple, "To him who thinks it is sin, it is sin". Maybe it's not for you or the OP. Again that is between you and God. I can tell you this, it's very difficult to witness to someone who sees you committing and condoning sin. That's what being in a bar setting is-condoning the drinking, condoning the lifestyle, whether one drinks or not, it's just being there that makes it difficult for non-believers. The location and the title of Christian absolutely reeks of hypocrisy and the Sunday Christian mentality. Beside that, what are you going to tell me (pretend that I am a non-believer) when I ask you why you are hanging out in a bar MT. Christianity? Suppose I saw you oggling the chick with half of her breasts hanging out and happen to notice your wedding ring? Suppose I do visit your church and see you the next morning behind the pulpit praying? I'm going to think this Christianity thing is cool. I can drink, party and do whatever and still be saved! FEEL GOOD RELIGION MY FRIEND. We are sanctified and set apart for a reason- so WE don't look like the rest of the world. We are representatives of Jesus.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 3:00:10 PM
|
|
|
bluestone
Posts: 2934
Joined: 2/25/2008
From: United States of America
Status: offline
|
So you are saying that drinking in moderation is not a personal choice, but sin for one and all?
_____________________________
I need Christ. Not something that resembles Christ.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 3:04:12 PM
|
|
|
JimboFletch
Posts: 5848
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
....Suppose I saw you oggling the chick with half of her breasts hanging out and happen to notice your wedding ring?...
You, ma'am, nor anyone else is going to catch me oogling another woman's body. But why are you so knowledgeable about how people dress in a bar? Or are you judging me by your men friends?
quote:
We are sanctified and set apart for a reason- so WE don't look like the rest of the world. We are representatives of Jesus.
How does your repeated reference to an obscene gesture fit in with your notion of holiness?
Amazing...
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 3:07:50 PM
|
|
|
deliveredarling
Posts: 1733
Status: offline
|
quote:
And you made reference to that obscene gesture a second time without your "holiness" knocking on your heart's door. You have no idea how telling that is and how amazed that makes me.
Seriously.
No sir, I don't claim holiness. Your offended? Can you obviously not tell how offended I am at the idea of Christians proclaiming that they are and hanging out in bars an other undesirable locations? How do you think Jesus feels about His children frequenting these places? You really don't think He considers those actions as the aforementioned gesture? Please.... He died on the cross for us, not so we could continue to live as the world. He expects more from His children.
If you took the hand gesture comment personally, I apologize. The cavalier attitude was relational to the hand gesture remark.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 3:11:30 PM
|
|
|
deliveredarling
Posts: 1733
Status: offline
|
quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
....Suppose I saw you oggling the chick with half of her breasts hanging out and happen to notice your wedding ring?...
You, ma'am, nor anyone else is going to catch me oogling another woman's body. But why are you so knowledgeable about how people dress in a bar? Or are you judging me by your men friends?
quote:
We are sanctified and set apart for a reason- so WE don't look like the rest of the world. We are representatives of Jesus.
How does your repeated reference to an obscene gesture fit in with your notion of holiness?
Amazing...
Now you've got me laughing. My comments are not about you personally. I thought I made a pretty good hypothetical case. Maybe I shouldn't have used you as my hypothetical example.
I know about the bar scene because if you will look back a few posts, I'm a delivered alcoholic. been there and done that scene and KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt -nothing holy goes on in a bar.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 3:17:15 PM
|
|
|
JimboFletch
Posts: 5848
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
If you took the hand gesture comment personally, I apologize. The cavalier attitude was relational to the hand gesture remark.
Sure, shrug off your apparent lack of what you claim is lacking by people like Jesus who went to where sinners were in order to extend His offer of eternal life.
Not only did He go places you wouldn't, He did so without becoming unholy.
We can and should be IN the world without becoming LIKE the world.
And you have shown, by your flippant attitude about an obscene gesture to Almighty God, how staying away from bars and away from sinners does not by themselves insure holiness to anyone.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 3:24:05 PM
|
|
|
JimboFletch
Posts: 5848
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
I know about the bar scene because if you will look back a few posts, I'm a delivered alcoholic. been there and done that scene and KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt -nothing holy goes on in a bar.
If I were a recovering or delivered alcoholic, I would never again frequent a bar or go to a party where lots of booze was available. Some things are just unwise.
I'm a delivered sinner that has been given a new nature and the holiness I have is not my own. As stated a couple of times, I have been in some unpleasant circumstances and that holiness has not been destroyed by sinners or their sin. Many of those occasions were out of my control, I did not choose to be there. But my Lord was always faithful to keep me and provide the way of escape.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 3:33:34 PM
|
|
|
KuKu
Posts: 631
Joined: 5/20/2005
From: Somewhere out there
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
I feel like that is flipping the Father off. [this shocked me the first time- that this would even OCCUR to someone, and nauseated me the second- that it is so 'clever' it has to be repeated]
My unwillingness to participate in a bar setting or otherwise undesirable setting has nothing to do with my willingness or unwillingness to extend Grace and Mercy. What other people do, is not my business. It harms me in no way shape or form. It's a personal choice for each one of us.
What I have quoted here is the most disturbing part of this whole thread... It's not my business what other people do, it's a personal choice for each one (QUOTES)- but if you are doing it, it's akin to you showing obscenities to God- which I have the right accuse you of...
This is the closest I get to a situation this week- I was at a bowling alley getting food to go, and sitting in front of the register- WITH NOTHING in front of me- and I was told by someone with me that I was being a stumbling block because it was the 'bar' area (the counter around the register...) Ok- so even with NOTHING in front of me- she had a can of Mt Dew LOL) I was sinning for not waiting clear across the room- yet she likes to go there to eat (in a town of 5,000 it's the best pizza and burgers- the only burgers actually), but where you sit determines your spiritual level- and it's her business to tell me I am wrong for it...
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 3:37:33 PM
|
|
|
deliveredarling
Posts: 1733
Status: offline
|
quote:
I'm a delivered sinner that has been given a new nature and the holiness I have is not my own. As stated a couple of times, I have been in some unpleasant circumstances and that holiness has not been destroyed by sinners or their sin. Many of those occasions were out of my control, I did not choose to be there. But my Lord was always faithful to keep me and provide the way of escape.
You hit on a key aspect here-CHOICE. These are "Christians" choosing to go to these places. I do not understand why. Why would I want to go to a bar to fellowship if I wasn't looking for something just a little bit unwholesome?
You know Jimbo, I can't even claim that I have holiness. if I do, it's not because of something I have done or haven't done. I don't look down on people because of where they are at. I'm saddened for them that they haven't seen the depths of the Light.l
quote:
Sure, shrug off your apparent lack of what you claim is lacking by people like Jesus who went to where sinners were in order to extend His offer of eternal life.
I don't know what you mean by this sentence.
I do think you may be thinking of it in terms that I do not mean. Age difference maybe? I am in no way referencing the gesture to the Lord or at the Lord in a disrespectful way. As i have said before, I feel that a cavalier attitude towards God is the same thing as that particular hand gesture. I can't explain it any better than that.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 3:42:39 PM
|
|
|
deliveredarling
Posts: 1733
Status: offline
|
quote:
What I have quoted here is the most disturbing part of this whole thread... It's not my business what other people do, it's a personal choice for each one (QUOTES)- but if you are doing it, it's akin to you showing obscenities to God- which I have the right accuse you of...
I'm not sure what you are saying here. It doesn't make sense to me.
Let me clarify- I'm not the sin police. i will not go up to a stranger and call them on their sin, just because I am a Christian. Besides that, God judges those who are outside of the body.
I think you have misunderstood what I meant by the comment. read above posts. If it's still not clear I will try to explain again.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 3:43:15 PM
|
|
|
bluestone
Posts: 2934
Joined: 2/25/2008
From: United States of America
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
These are "Christians" choosing to go to these places.
Why did you put Chrisitans in parenthesis?
_____________________________
I need Christ. Not something that resembles Christ.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 3:47:00 PM
|
|
|
deliveredarling
Posts: 1733
Status: offline
|
hand gesture equals cavalier attitude. This is the only way i know how to explain what I meant.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 3:48:51 PM
|
|
|
deliveredarling
Posts: 1733
Status: offline
|
quote:
Why did you put Chrisitans in parenthesis?
Because I think there are a lot of people out there who have a feel good religion and think they are saved but are not. there are people who believe in the whole license to sin mentality.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 3:56:33 PM
|
|
|
bluestone
Posts: 2934
Joined: 2/25/2008
From: United States of America
Status: offline
|
Are you saying that I am not saved because I drink on occasion?
_____________________________
I need Christ. Not something that resembles Christ.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 3:58:04 PM
|
|
|
deliveredarling
Posts: 1733
Status: offline
|
quote:
Jimbo, you certainly have a knack for twisting things. I said nothing about remaining holy in a sinners setting. I have no desire to offend my father after He He given such Grace and Mercy to me. But if you desire to flip Him off go right ahead.
Ok maybe this will help.
God delivered me from alcoholism. I feel that for me to go into a bar or any kind of setting with alcohol even to the point of drinking would be the same as me giving this hand gesture to God. By doing these thing or even thinking about them, I would be shoving His Mercy and Grace and love for me right back at Him. I would also be testing Him to do those things. My attitude would be cavalier towards Him. For me to do the things He has instructed us not to do is rebellious, disrespectful, and displaying that a change of heart did not occur. My heart is grateful to the Lord for saving me. To do these things towards the Lord that saved me is unthinkable.
Did that help the explanation any?
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 4:00:02 PM
|
|
|
deliveredarling
Posts: 1733
Status: offline
|
quote:
Are you saying that I am not saved because I drink on occasion?
No.
I am referring to those who continuously, willingly, knowingly commit sins.
For some, drinking is not a sin. For me, it clearly is.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
