RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink.
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/11/2008 11:10:23 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jet_A_Jockey
And to be honest, in comparison, I've met many more people who were doing the work of Christ inside of a bar setting than I ever have on the internet.
I haven't...
John
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/11/2008 11:16:50 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jet_A_Jockey
so what is lukewarm about being a witness?
We are talking about hanging out in bars...
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Is it not up to your standards therefore irrelevant? By your standards I should tell the christians downtown at the homeless shelter to stop hanging around those vagrant sinners as well, right?
That wouldn't be my standard, but yours...
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Can you not admit that you do not know everything that happens, or what everyone's intentions are when they are doing things?
Can you?
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I just don't see the point in turning our noses up at people who are out there in the world actually making a real effort in their own way, meanwhile we sit here in the comfort of our own homes, hiding behind a computer screen and talk about how 'fake' they are.
I can't help put point out the irony you typed that hiding behind a computer screen...
quote:
How do you know what God has called someone to do?
How do you know?
John
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/12/2008 2:00:57 AM
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SonInMe1
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How much sin is there in church?
Mmmm....gossip, adultry, theft, lieing, lust and I am sure many more.
If we use the standard that we cannot go anywhere there is sin....we would have to leave the planet.
By the way I have seen drunk people in churches as well..several.
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When? I did that already! When will it happen? Just so I can get my will notarized and stuff...
The usualy waiting period for organic combustion after consuming alcohol differs with other factors...food consumption....additional sins connected with the alcohol concumption....and how busy God is. However statisticly, its usually within 4.342 days of the consumption.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/12/2008 2:42:23 AM
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McFatty
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Hmm... it's been several months already, but then again, my dad and I are both big-build Irish descended men, so maybe that causes a delay or increases the minimum for combustion or something. I'll have to look into it. Needless to say, I haven't exploded from my glass of wine seven months ago (yet...)
_____________________________
“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/12/2008 2:44:55 AM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
How much sin is there in church?
Depends on the church I suppose....
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Mmmm....gossip, adultry, theft, lieing, lust and I am sure many more.
Don't forget false witness...
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If we use the standard that we cannot go anywhere there is sin....we would have to leave the planet.
There is no sin on the moon?
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By the way I have seen drunk people in churches as well..several.
Why not millions?
John
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/12/2008 8:26:53 AM
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martyfran
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jet_A_Jockey
And to be honest, in comparison, I've met many more people who were doing the work of Christ inside of a bar setting than I ever have on the internet.
I haven't...
John
So, you haven't. I am not sure that proves anything. If you don't want to go to a bar, that is certainly your choice. However, we know the following:
1. Scripture certainly does not forbid drinking alcohol, although it does warn about excessive drinking.
2. Establishments that serve alcohol therefore are legitimate business establishments.
3. If a Christian wants to frequent such an establishment it is up to their prudential judgment.
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/12/2008 8:50:55 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: martyfran
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jet_A_Jockey
And to be honest, in comparison, I've met many more people who were doing the work of Christ inside of a bar setting than I ever have on the internet.
I haven't...
John
So, you haven't. I am not sure that proves anything. If you don't want to go to a bar, that is certainly your choice. However, we know the following:
1. Scripture certainly does not forbid drinking alcohol, although it does warn about excessive drinking.
3. If a Christian wants to frequent such an establishment it is up to their prudential judgment.
I certainly agree with these two points.
quote:
2. Establishments that serve alcohol therefore are legitimate business establishments.
Being a ligitimate business does not make a place proper for use by Christians; Porn shops, legal houses of prostitution, etc.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/12/2008 12:04:48 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
quote:
ORIGINAL: bluestone
I know people who would not step foot in a pub, even for dinner. But they will go to Hooters "For the food". 
Bwahahahahahaha! Love it! Kind of the mentality of buying a P1ayboy for the articles?
THey have articles in Playboy now. Wow. It has been years since I even looked at one of those magazines but I don't remember any articles. 
Hee-hee-hee! 1963, at age 14, I was visiting my sister's house and saw a P1ayboy in their magazine rack. Confused, because my brother-in-law was a well-thought-of and well-used person in that church, I must have had "that look" on my face. He quickly explained to me that he "read it for the articles." Yeah. Sure. And a 14-year-old is young enough to swallow that!
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It doesn't bother me at all to be around people who drink, but it bothers me to be around those who drink to get a buzz or to get drunk. People do not realize what fools they make of themselves, what stupid things they say. And when these also claim to be believers, it is embarrassing to believers everywhere.
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Nice to see you and your lovely wife again!! 
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/12/2008 1:02:40 PM
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Jet_A_Jockey
Posts: 47
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From: pensacola florid
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jet_A_Jockey
so what is lukewarm about being a witness?
We are talking about hanging out in bars...
Yes hanging out in bars, do you realize that there are more bars than the one you imagine in your head? They aren't all seedy little hole-in-the-wall type places. I never said its the best thing to be doing ever, only that God's work IS done in there from time to time.
quote:
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Is it not up to your standards therefore irrelevant? By your standards I should tell the christians downtown at the homeless shelter to stop hanging around those vagrant sinners as well, right?
That wouldn't be my standard, but yours...
I was just using the standard you set yourself in a different application. It's relevant because it often involves the same type of people.
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quote:
Can you not admit that you do not know everything that happens, or what everyone's intentions are when they are doing things?
Can you?
absolutely, and in doing so I don't condemn people's efforts, and rather
applaud them for doing God's work.
quote:
quote:
I just don't see the point in turning our noses up at people who are out there in the world actually making a real effort in their own way, meanwhile we sit here in the comfort of our own homes, hiding behind a computer screen and talk about how 'fake' they are.
I can't help put point out the irony you typed that hiding behind a computer screen... How is it ironic? You are the one passing judgment on how proper 'christians' should act. Whatever makes you feel better though.
quote:
quote:
How do you know what God has called someone to do?
How do you know?
John
Thats the point of it all, I don't know. And I never said I did. Only that I am open to the fact that if someone does something that I would consider 'apart' from what I believe to be the 'norm', that they may still indeed be doing God's work. Take care.
_____________________________
And I don't care what they say, if what you need is your faith, then take a look in my face and know...
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/12/2008 2:12:49 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
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quote:
ORIGINAL: martyfran
So, you haven't. I am not sure that proves anything. If you don't want to go to a bar, that is certainly your choice. However, we know the following:
It doesn't prove a thing, that's why I responded with it... Comments like that little or no value...
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1. Scripture certainly does not forbid drinking alcohol, although it does warn about excessive drinking.
Without a doubt... It doesn't simply warn of it is speaks of it in the same breath as
quote:
2. Establishments that serve alcohol therefore are legitimate business establishments.
Without a doubt... Of course being a legitimate business doesn't equate to it being morale...
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3. If a Christian wants to frequent such an establishment it is up to their prudential judgment.
Does that mean Christian's that don't believe they have a lust issues can hang out at bars that are also strip clubs?
I am trying to recall if being in a strip club is mentioned in the bible...
If drunks must be witnessed too in the natural habitat don't fornicators need the same?
John
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/12/2008 2:27:25 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jet_A_Jockey
Yes hanging out in bars, do you realize that there are more bars than the one you imagine in your head?
Yes, I was just making sure we were talking about hanging out in bars, since it seemed that going out to bar morphed into witnessing...
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They aren't all seedy little hole-in-the-wall type places.
If I didn't know better from this thread I would think they were all like Cheers or really just a church for thristy people...
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I never said its the best thing to be doing ever, only that God's work IS done in there from time to time.
I believe that is very overstated...
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I was just using the standard you set yourself in a different application. It's relevant because it often involves the same type of people.
You are using the standard you made up... That you assigned to me... It may involve the same type of people, but the setting isn't nearly the same...
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absolutely, and in doing so I don't condemn people's efforts, and rather
applaud them for doing God's work.
Back to going to bar to have a drink morphing into witnessing...
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How is it ironic?
It's always ironic when anyone posts on the net about another person hiding behind their computer while posting...
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You are the one passing judgment on how proper 'christians' should act.
I am offering my point of view... Same as you... To say I am passing a judgment is passing a judgment yourself.... No way around that... More irony...
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Thats the point of it all, I don't know. And I never said I did. Only that I am open to the fact that if someone does something that I would consider 'apart' from what I believe to be the 'norm', that they may still indeed be doing God's work. Take care.
I believe it more about having a drink, and truth be told I fine with that.... No big need to make it something about witnessing...
John
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/12/2008 3:32:35 PM
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Jet_A_Jockey
Posts: 47
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From: pensacola florid
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quote:
quote:
They aren't all seedy little hole-in-the-wall type places.
If I didn't know better from this thread I would think they were all like Cheers or really just a church for thristy people... i never said that bars are THE place to be, only that they are not like the picture you paint them out to be (although they can be seedy, and i've been in quite a few that are)
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I never said its the best thing to be doing ever, only that God's work IS done in there from time to time.
I believe that is very overstated... once again, do you have the experience in them to really know?
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I was just using the standard you set yourself in a different application. It's relevant because it often involves the same type of people.
You are using the standard you made up... That you assigned to me... It may involve the same type of people, but the setting isn't nearly the same... How isn't it? You find the same people even at gas stations around here. This is way off the point, however.
quote:
quote:
absolutely, and in doing so I don't condemn people's efforts, and rather
applaud them for doing God's work.
Back to going to bar to have a drink morphing into witnessing...
The thing is, you equate going into a bar with going to have a drink. I used to spend more time in bars than the average bar-goer, and I rarely, if ever, drank any alcohol while I was there.
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quote:
How is it ironic?
It's always ironic when anyone posts on the net about another person hiding behind their computer while posting...
I am offering my point of view... Same as you... To say I am passing a judgment is passing a judgment yourself.... No way around that... More irony...
Not really, when one person is pointing fingers and telling others that what they are doing is wrong, with no biblical justification mind you, that is passing judgment. Calling you out on that may be considered a judgment also in the broader sense of the term, but is only used when someone is at the point of grasping straws.
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Thats the point of it all, I don't know. And I never said I did. Only that I am open to the fact that if someone does something that I would consider 'apart' from what I believe to be the 'norm', that they may still indeed be doing God's work. Take care.
I believe it more about having a drink, and truth be told I fine with that.... No big need to make it something about witnessing...
John
Then you should have no problem with a christian going into a bar, should you?
_____________________________
And I don't care what they say, if what you need is your faith, then take a look in my face and know...
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/12/2008 6:49:23 PM
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SonInMe1
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quote:
There is no sin on the moon?
As far as I know there are no people so...I would say yes. Fallen, no doubt, but I don't think there is sin on the moon.
You would be suprised at the topics of conversation in bars and how they scream for a witness. People have a few and they open up and discuss their problems.
Maybe we should pass a law that all bartenders should be pastors. I betcha there would be more saved people.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/12/2008 7:28:28 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jet_A_Jockey
The thing is, you equate going into a bar with going to have a drink. I used to spend more time in bars than the average bar-goer, and I rarely, if ever, drank any alcohol while I was there.
Of course...
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Not really, when one person is pointing fingers and telling others that what they are doing is wrong, with no biblical justification mind you, that is passing judgment.
A tad bit dramatic... As for no biblical justification... That is a matter of opinion...
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Calling you out on that may be considered a judgment also in the broader sense of the term, but is only used when someone is at the point of grasping straws.
I judge and you call people out... Mr. Kettle, or Mr. Pot?
Then you should have no problem with a christian going into a bar, should you?
I just wonder a bit when going to the bar turns into the witness hour...
John
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/13/2008 8:12:04 AM
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deliveredarling
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I see the same circles going around and around. It still looks like Christians who want to participate in the bar scene, will find a "worthy excuse" such as witnessing to justify there reasoning for being there.
True story here: I was talking to a lady about somethings in her past. She used to "swing". We discussed the spiritual side of swinging. Some members of that group told her that she could get closer to God during these encounters. Also that it was a witnessing tool to non-believers who joined the group. Do you honestly not see a problem with this story? No different than claiming these same things for the bar scene.
The enemy can certainly dress up the ugly to make it appealing to anyone. Warning: give the enemy an inch, and he will take the whole darn road!
Denominational or not, a bar is not a place a Christian should be hanging out.
BTW, I have never heard of any missionary journeys taking place in a bar.
Going to a bar is a choice. Either one chooses to live a life honoring God in all that they do or they don't. Bar hopping is not honoring God IMHO.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/13/2008 9:12:05 AM
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Jet_A_Jockey
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From: pensacola florid
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lets clear this up, I never said that the only purpose in going to a bar was for mission work. I was trying to show that while being there it is a great opportunity to witness to someone, and I don't care if someone disagrees with that, as long as God knows what is done. I used to frequent bars when I played competitive billiards. There are plenty of people who play this, as well as competitive darts. Do they all drink? Not really. Do they all carouse and have a reckless and crazy time? No, most have a job to get to in the morning (or in my case, right after the competition).
I realize that no matter what I say, I won't live up to your standard of what 'christians' should do. And honestly..I'm okay with that. Take care.
_____________________________
And I don't care what they say, if what you need is your faith, then take a look in my face and know...
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/13/2008 9:20:35 AM
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martyfran
Posts: 564
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
Denominational or not, a bar is not a place a Christian should be hanging out.
I am not sure that this can be sustained scripturally. After all, the bible does allow the drinking of alcohol, and bars serve alcohol, so while there may be some places that encourage drunkenness, there are other bars that don't. Now, of course, the bible does not command hanging out in bars, but it doesn't forbid it either.
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BTW, I have never heard of any missionary journeys taking place in a bar.
Are you are saying that nobody has ever witnessed the Gospel in a bar? Now, I don't go into a bar to be a missionary, but if I am in a bar and I get an opening to discuss faith, I certainly will take advantage of it.
quote:
Going to a bar is a choice. Either one chooses to live a life honoring God in all that they do or they don't. Bar hopping is not honoring God IMHO.
I would say that if the focus is on getting drunk, it is not God honoring. But if the focus is on fellowship, then going to a bar can be quite God honoring.
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/13/2008 9:27:20 AM
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humbleinspirit
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It should be duly noted that this whole thing about whether going to a bar or not is a sin is very much a U.S. thing. It is common place for people to go to pubs in both Ireland and England without as much as giving it a second thought.
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/13/2008 9:30:13 AM
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drmark
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quote:
It is common place for people to go to pubs in both Ireland and England without as much as giving it a second thought. Sin has not been given a "second thought" in most of Europe for several decades now!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/13/2008 9:32:41 AM
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humbleinspirit
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
It is common place for people to go to pubs in both Ireland and England without as much as giving it a second thought. Sin has not been given a "second thought" in most of Europe for several decades now!
But that is not my point, there are some very fearing Bible believing Christians who go to a pub and not sin.
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/13/2008 9:37:40 AM
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drmark
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They do not sin by their definition or God's definition?
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/13/2008 9:41:20 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
It is common place for people to go to pubs in both Ireland and England without as much as giving it a second thought. Sin has not been given a "second thought" in most of Europe for several decades now!
Mark! Are you writing that going in a bar is sinning? Are you writing that consuming alcohol is sinning? Just because you and/or I are uncomfortable in bars does not make going in a bar a sin. I would really like to see your biblical evidence that it is sin.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/13/2008 10:20:25 AM
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rcjames
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
Mark! Are you writing that going in a bar is sinning? Are you writing that consuming alcohol is sinning? Just because you and/or I are uncomfortable in bars does not make going in a bar a sin. I would really like to see your biblical evidence that it is sin.
Abiyah,
I think that going to a bar or drinking, and doing many other things that are "Permissible" fall under the following;
(1Co 8:9) But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
(1Co 8:10) For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
(1Co 8:11) And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
(1Co 8:12) But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
(1Co 8:13) Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.
Is going to a bar a sin; no. Is your going to a bar and that going causes a weaker brother stumble a sin; you bet it is.
We as Believers, and especially we as ministers; have to be careful with our actions so as not to cause someone to stumble.
So would I go to a bar and run the risk of someone who is weak seeing me and it hurting their relationship with Christ? No I would not.
Now come over to my backyard when I am cooking baby back ribs and I will drink a beer or two or three with folks I know that it will not cause to stumble.
The same goes for gambling and some other things.
The action itself is not a sin, but the reprecussions from it might be.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/13/2008 10:44:56 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Okay, RC. You know I respect you greatly; however, let me preface what I am about to write by reminding you of that fact.
But that whole chapter is about things sacrificed to idols. How can it legitimately be stretched to also take in consuming alcohol and going to bars?
Yes, I am uncomfortable about going into bars; no, I don't consume alcoholic beverages (although I asked to taste tequila the other day, just to see what it tasted like, and the person I asked refused); but do our feelings and/or health issues and/or taste preferences about alcohol consumption and bar-attending make doctrine?
Messiah made wine (wine, even though one of the main preachers at the old church taught that he absolutely did not) at the wedding. He consumed wine at the holy day observances. The bar did not exist in His time, while the alcohol-serving inns did, but He was definitely accused of being a winebibber. I just do not see how these things can be made into a biblical issue.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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