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RE: Where is the Church. The building or the person? - 7/14/2008 11:45:12 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 10624
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It's a serious question. I'm not following your logic.
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~Kristin~
Resume Quotations: "I worked as a Corporate Lesion."
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RE: Where is the Church. The building or the person? - 7/15/2008 7:58:44 AM
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earthless
Posts: 6219
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The foolishness is trying to hide their true beliefs and playing word games.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Where is the Church. The building or the person? - 7/15/2008 8:04:40 AM
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theo_book
Posts: 570
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quote:
ORIGINAL: phosadaud
It's a serious question. I'm not following your logic.
Oh I quite agree, because it is not my logic, it is Paul's logic.
take it up with Paul at the judgment.
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RE: Where is the Church. The building or the person? - 7/15/2008 8:22:22 AM
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earthless
Posts: 6219
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Theo,
Can you answer my questions last made to you?
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Where is the Church. The building or the person? - 7/15/2008 8:30:30 AM
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theo_book
Posts: 570
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Theo,
Can you answer my questions last made to you?
Yes I can. Will I? Not a chance!
Why? Because it is a dodge you take to avoid responding to my posts described in previous posts.
You cannot just arbitrarily attack another's position by challenging scriptural findings, and calling them heretical, just because you interject a different focus of scriptural material.
That is "one-up-manship" gaming and I don't play.
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RE: Where is the Church. The building or the person? - 7/15/2008 9:07:25 AM
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phosadaud
Posts: 10624
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theo- no one is following what you are saying. Paul is speaking of division and yet all of us are telling you and giving you examples of how denominations are not divided but working together for the Kingdom of God. You seem to be the only one who is divided (along you call it "separated"). It makes no sense. I'm trying to understand how you define divided. Or do you believe divided is simply because of a label (denomination)?
_____________________________
~Kristin~
Resume Quotations: "I worked as a Corporate Lesion."
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RE: Where is the Church. The building or the person? - 7/15/2008 10:31:49 AM
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theo_book
Posts: 570
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quote:
ORIGINAL: phosadaud
theo- no one is following what you are saying. Paul is speaking of division and yet all of us are telling you and giving you examples of how denominations are not divided but working together for the Kingdom of God. You seem to be the only one who is divided (along you call it "separated"). It makes no sense. I'm trying to understand how you define divided. Or do you believe divided is simply because of a label (denomination)?
Paul understood the use of labels as well as any man. He condemned those practices whereby men divided over who their particular selection was as to who was important. "Some say I am of ...& etc. (You fill in the labels). It does not matter how expertly the division is camoflaged, it is still division. It does not matter how many people the divided conglomerate can offer as evidence of unity, it is still division.
When Christians give their allegiance to Christ, and walk in the name of Christ instead of "I am a (label) Christian" how can you say Christ is glorified? If John the baptist for example, or Martin Luther for another, is named every time someone asks "what is your religious affiliation," with "I am a Baptist Christian," or "I am a Lutheran Christian" how is Christ glorified? How does God receive glory for his son's sacrifice? Rather we divide our efforts behind the men who have split over dogma and doctrine till there are several thousands of denominations, all denying there is a problem.
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RE: Where is the Church. The building or the person? - 7/15/2008 10:32:40 AM
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doinkdom
Posts: 4279
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theo_book,
how many Christians are in the fellowship you participate with on a regular basis?
Do you meet weekly or daily?
Do you have a particular version of scripture agreed upon to use?
Do you meet in someone's home?
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RE: Where is the Church. The building or the person? - 7/15/2008 10:39:02 AM
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theo_book
Posts: 570
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quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
theo_book,
how many Christians are in the fellowship you participate with on a regular basis?
Do you meet weekly or daily?
Do you have a particular version of scripture agreed upon to use?
Do you meet in someone's home?
quote:
RE: Where is the Church. The building or the person? -
I consider your questions off subject.
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RE: Where is the Church. The building or the person? - 7/15/2008 10:53:46 AM
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doinkdom
Posts: 4279
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quote:
ORIGINAL: theo_book
I consider your questions off subject.
seriously...and you ask why you get the answers you do in this thread about the church with your consistent posts about divisiveness and yet will not answer a question straight up.
from post #100
quote:
ORIGINAL: theo_book
oH STOP WITH THE FOOLISHNESS.
you first
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RE: Where is the Church. The building or the person? - 7/15/2008 10:59:23 AM
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modu
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Are we not somehow confusing the "church," which is the body of Christ (Every Christian) and the assembly of saints, which is the meeting place of Christians (The building)? The Church is spiritual, eternal, living and above all things the expression of God's glory in Christ Jesus through human vessels, while the assembly of saint is a physical presence, like the synagogue, temple of worship and so forth. The content and vitality of this assembly is not in the building or place of worship, though we must give due regards to such places, but the real intent is to use such assembly to express and realize the vitality of God in us through Christ Jesus. It should be more on the person and not the picture.
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RE: Where is the Church. The building or the person? - 7/15/2008 11:17:11 AM
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Qtman
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quote:
ORIGINAL: modu
Are we not somehow confusing the "church," which is the body of Christ (Every Christian) and the assembly of saints, which is the meeting place of Christians (The building)? The Church is spiritual, eternal, living and above all things the expression of God's glory in Christ Jesus through human vessels, while the assembly of saint is a physical presence, like the synagogue, temple of worship and so forth. The content and vitality of this assembly is not in the building or place of worship, though we must give due regards to such places, but the real intent is to use such assembly to express and realize the vitality of God in us through Christ Jesus. It should be more on the person and not the picture.
It appears some of us are.
Good post BTW.
_____________________________
MERRY CHRISTMAS! For those that do not partake Happy December 25th
Body Piercings
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RE: Where is the Church. The building or the person? - 7/15/2008 12:36:19 PM
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crankius
Posts: 4467
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Theo,
You are repeatedly using 1 Cor 1:12-13 as a foundation for your argument.
Consider the following passages:
1 Cor 3:7“So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase.”
1 Cor 3:9“For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building.”
1 Cor 3:11 “For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.”
What unifies us? Christ. All those who are unified in Christ are unified on the same foundation. This is Paul's point.
There are false religions, and there are believers united in Christ. All those united in Christ, we embrace. All those who are united under a false doctrine without Christ, we cannot embrace as being on the same foundation of Christ.
As Phosy pointed out—denominational titles are DESCRIPTIVE, not divisive, unless we make them so. Denominational titles are simply efficient ways of delivering information about the fellowship.
You have said some things I find very troubling:
quote:
My question is really addressed to those who think to question my right to assemble where and when I want to, with whom I want to, to worship the Father in the name of the son.
My question for you is the same.
quote:
Christianity has been likened to an army, and considered to be "at war" with spiritual enemies. We CANNOT hope to engage the enemy and come away victorious with divided local militias, and leaderships that come from different understandings of what the General (Christ) expects of his warriors. That is precisely what denominationalism is, by virtue of its existence.
Who is building the Church, and whose Church is it? Who has already won?
quote:
I fellowship all who will disown the divisions of denominationalism. I operate with all who join me in worship to the Father through the son. What is your problem?
I am built upon the foundation of Jesus Christ. I recognize His Lordship and I exercise my part of the Body of Christ with a wonderful little local fellowship, which happens to be part of the larger fellowship of SBC.
Do you consider me to be part of the same Body of Christ built upon the same foundation? Can you worship with me and fellowship with me, or do you reject me?
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY
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RE: Where is the Church. The building or the person? - 7/15/2008 1:17:57 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6219
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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quote:
ORIGINAL: theo_book
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Theo,
Can you answer my questions last made to you?
Yes I can. Will I? Not a chance!
Why? Because it is a dodge you take to avoid responding to my posts described in previous posts.
You cannot just arbitrarily attack another's position by challenging scriptural findings, and calling them heretical, just because you interject a different focus of scriptural material.
That is "one-up-manship" gaming and I don't play.
I simply asked you very basic questions an eight year old Christian could answer. But we all know you purposely choose to avoid/dodge them. Why? I can list some reasons but they would violate the TOS.
The simple point is that you're just as guilty of what you're saying we are of.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Where is the Church. The building or the person? - 7/15/2008 3:39:59 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 10624
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
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quote:
ORIGINAL: theo_book
Paul understood the use of labels as well as any man. He condemned those practices whereby men divided over who their particular selection was as to who was important. "Some say I am of ...& etc. (You fill in the labels). It does not matter how expertly the division is camoflaged, it is still division. It does not matter how many people the divided conglomerate can offer as evidence of unity, it is still division.
When Christians give their allegiance to Christ, and walk in the name of Christ instead of "I am a (label) Christian" how can you say Christ is glorified? If John the baptist for example, or Martin Luther for another, is named every time someone asks "what is your religious affiliation," with "I am a Baptist Christian," or "I am a Lutheran Christian" how is Christ glorified? How does God receive glory for his son's sacrifice? Rather we divide our efforts behind the men who have split over dogma and doctrine till there are several thousands of denominations, all denying there is a problem.
That Scripture is not about labels. Paul USED labels - Gentiles & Jews, the Church in Corinth, etc. But labels are nothing more than labels - ways to describe. It does not define who we are in Christ.
The same is true of denominational labels. You may define us by which denomination our church is - but all of us here are stating that we are One in the Body of Christ. The denomination is nothing more than a description.
You keep referring to 1 Corinthians 1, so let's look at it. What is the issue here? Is the issue here a label? Is the label the divider?
1 Corinthians1:10 I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought. 11 My brothers, some from Chloe's household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12 What I mean is this: One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas"; still another, "I follow Christ." 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul?
14 I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so no one can say that you were baptized into my name. 16 (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don't remember if I baptized anyone else.)
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel--not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power. 18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate." 20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22 Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength. 26 Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things--and the things that are not--to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him. 30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31 Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."
To me, this is not at all like what we see in denominations (at least not biblical ones). First let's note a few things:
1. Paul does not say that labels are wrong. He is addressing quarreling among believers. Note that one of the examples he uses is "I follow Christ". Hmmm... That sounds like something you've said and yet he lists it among "I follow Cephas" and "I follow Apollos". Obviously saying I follow Christ is not a sin so maybe it's not the label that's the issue. Maybe it's the quarreling and the attitudes that is the issue? Maybe it's the boasting about being a "better" believer because of who baptized them?
2. Paul brings this all back to God. It's not that God doesn't use leaders. He does - He used Paul. However, the leader in the church is not a leader because they are the rich guy who has lots of education. They are a leader because they have submitted to Christ. This is God's wisdom - not man's wisdom.
3. Paul brings it to conclusion discussing boasting. Is he talking about using labels? No, he used labels in this discussion: Jews, Gentiles, etc. What was happening though was people were trying to "out-spiritualize" other believers. "I'm better than you are because I follow Christ or I follow Cephas or whatever". Paul dismisses this - and calls the Body back to a simple walk with God.
Again, none of this has to do with denominations or lack of denominations. That's not what Paul is addressing. He doesn't say - I'm thankful that I didn't baptize any of you because you might say you follow me. He says: so no one can say that you were baptized into my name.
Do you see the difference? It's not about a label. It's not about who's church you worship in. It's not about what style of worship you have (remember the Jerusalem council ruled that Jewish believers and Gentile believers did not have to act alike and look the same and follow the same customs) or what your customs are.
It's why my AG church doesn't care which "denomination" baptized me - as long as it was a believer's baptism. It's why we pray to God - not the leaders of the AG. It's why we work alongside a Conservative Baptist church. It's about God - not about the label we wear or the church we meet in or the style of worship we have or the customs we follow. It's about God. I'm sorry you can't see that.
_____________________________
~Kristin~
Resume Quotations: "I worked as a Corporate Lesion."
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RE: Where is the Church. The building or the person? - 7/16/2008 8:23:01 AM
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theo_book
Posts: 570
Joined: 4/8/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: phosadaud
quote:
ORIGINAL: theo_book
Paul understood the use of labels as well as any man. He condemned those practices whereby men divided over who their particular selection was as to who was important. "Some say I am of ...& etc. (You fill in the labels). It does not matter how expertly the division is camoflaged, it is still division. It does not matter how many people the divided conglomerate can offer as evidence of unity, it is still division.
When Christians give their allegiance to Christ, and walk in the name of Christ instead of "I am a (label) Christian" how can you say Christ is glorified? If John the baptist for example, or Martin Luther for another, is named every time someone asks "what is your religious affiliation," with "I am a Baptist Christian," or "I am a Lutheran Christian" how is Christ glorified? How does God receive glory for his son's sacrifice? Rather we divide our efforts behind the men who have split over dogma and doctrine till there are several thousands of denominations, all denying there is a problem.
That Scripture is not about labels. Paul USED labels - Gentiles & Jews, the Church in Corinth, etc. But labels are nothing more than labels - ways to describe. It does not define who we are in Christ.
The same is true of denominational labels. You may define us by which denomination our church is - but all of us here are stating that we are One in the Body of Christ. The denomination is nothing more than a description.
You keep referring to 1 Corinthians 1, so let's look at it. What is the issue here? Is the issue here a label? Is the label the divider?
1 Corinthians1:10 I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought. 11 My brothers, some from Chloe's household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12 What I mean is this: One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas"; still another, "I follow Christ." 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul?
14 I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so no one can say that you were baptized into my name. 16 (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don't remember if I baptized anyone else.)
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel--not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power. 18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate." 20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22 Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength. 26 Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things--and the things that are not--to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him. 30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31 Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."
To me, this is not at all like what we see in denominations (at least not biblical ones). First let's note a few things:
1. Paul does not say that labels are wrong. He is addressing quarreling among believers. Note that one of the examples he uses is "I follow Christ". Hmmm... That sounds like something you've said and yet he lists it among "I follow Cephas" and "I follow Apollos". Obviously saying I follow Christ is not a sin so maybe it's not the label that's the issue. Maybe it's the quarreling and the attitudes that is the issue? Maybe it's the boasting about being a "better" believer because of who baptized them?
2. Paul brings this all back to God. It's not that God doesn't use leaders. He does - He used Paul. However, the leader in the church is not a leader because they are the rich guy who has lots of education. They are a leader because they have submitted to Christ. This is God's wisdom - not man's wisdom.
3. Paul brings it to conclusion discussing boasting. Is he talking about using labels? No, he used labels in this discussion: Jews, Gentiles, etc. What was happening though was people were trying to "out-spiritualize" other believers. "I'm better than you are because I follow Christ or I follow Cephas or whatever". Paul dismisses this - and calls the Body back to a simple walk with God.
Again, none of this has to do with denominations or lack of denominations. That's not what Paul is addressing. He doesn't say - I'm thankful that I didn't baptize any of you because you might say you follow me. He says: so no one can say that you were baptized into my name.
Do you see the difference? It's not about a label. It's not about who's church you worship in. It's not about what style of worship you have (remember the Jerusalem council ruled that Jewish believers and Gentile believers did not have to act alike and look the same and follow the same customs) or what your customs are.
It's why my AG church doesn't care which "denomination" baptized me - as long as it was a believer's baptism. It's why we pray to God - not the leaders of the AG. It's why we work alongside a Conservative Baptist church. It's about God - not about the label we wear or the church we meet in or the style of worship we have or the customs we follow. It's about God. I'm sorry you can't see that.
I will take to heart what you have said, and consider it before I respond to anymore posts on this thread. You may be right. Thank you!
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RE: Where is the Church. The building or the person? - 7/22/2008 9:08:20 AM
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theo_book
Posts: 570
Joined: 4/8/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
(theo) Paul understood the use of labels as well as any man. He condemned those practices whereby men divided over who their particular selection was as to who was important. "Some say I am of ...& etc. (You fill in the labels). It does not matter how expertly the division is camoflaged, it is still division. It does not matter how many people the divided conglomerate can offer as evidence of unity, it is still division.
When Christians give their allegiance to Christ, and walk in the name of Christ instead of "I am a (label) Christian" how can you say Christ is glorified? If John the baptist for example, or Martin Luther for another, is named every time someone asks "what is your religious affiliation," with "I am a Baptist Christian," or "I am a Lutheran Christian" how is Christ glorified? How does God receive glory for his son's sacrifice? Rather we divide our efforts behind the men who have split over dogma and doctrine till there are several thousands of denominations, all denying there is a problem.
(phosadaud) That Scripture is not about labels. Paul USED labels - Gentiles & Jews, the Church in Corinth, etc. But labels are nothing more than labels - ways to describe. It does not define who we are in Christ.
The same is true of denominational labels. You may define us by which denomination our church is - but all of us here are stating that we are One in the Body of Christ. The denomination is nothing more than a description.
quote:
(phosadaud) It's not about a label. It's not about who's church you worship in. It's not about what style of worship you have (remember the Jerusalem council ruled that Jewish believers and Gentile believers did not have to act alike and look the same and follow the same customs) or what your customs are.
It's why my AG church doesn't care which "denomination" baptized me - as long as it was a believer's baptism. It's why we pray to God - not the leaders of the AG. It's why we work alongside a Conservative Baptist church. It's about God - not about the label we wear or the church we meet in or the style of worship we have or the customs we follow. It's about God. I'm sorry you can't see that.
(theo) Perhaps this exchange, from another thread on this board, will demonstrate my point better than my simple prose.
(Thread: Old God New Earth? I don't think so.)(Post #296)
quote:
(theo)O.K. Doc. I looked into your "sound doctrinal tradition" concept and I think it needs a little guidance. What exactly do you reference when you say "traditional denominational doctrine?"
Protestant denominations are divided and conflicted. These divisions and conflicts are largely traceable to different methods of interpreting the Bible. Ranging from the most conservative to the most liberal Christians we see the following three belief systems:
~(snip)~
(List A gives three different ways to interpret scripture as practiced by denominations)
(List B gives 26 major divisions of protestantism, out of thousands of possibilities.)
(Thread: Old God New Earth? I don't think so.)(Post 297)
(drmark) I cannot recall ever using the phrase "traditional denominational doctrine".... Your list of whatevers is meaningless as many "denominations" in it espouse heresy. Perhaps you would benefit from a review of essential Christian doctrine.
(Thread: Old God New Earth? I don't think so.)
(drmark)(Post #248) I've seen enough to once again realize the importance of denominational tradition in developing a correct understanding of essential Christian doctrine.
(drmark)(post #297) Your list of whatevers is meaningless as many "denominations" in it espouse heresy.
(theo) That has been my point for much of the discussion. YOU have "seen enough to once again realize the importance of denominational tradition in developing a correct understanding of essential Christian doctrine," even though "many "denominations" in it espouse heresy. Yup! Been my argument all along.
I do not think a simple disclaimer does away with the dangers of incorporating heretical teachings and practices into the fold, just for the sake of unity.
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RE: Where is the Church. The building or the person? - 7/22/2008 4:26:53 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6219
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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Theo_Book attends a church just like any one of us do. He just does it from the comfort of his living room sofa.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Where is the Church. The building or the person? - 7/22/2008 4:42:09 PM
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theo_book
Posts: 570
Joined: 4/8/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Theo_Book attends a church just like any one of us do. He just does it from the comfort of his living room sofa.
Theo Book does not "attend a church just like any one of you do." He IS the church, along with the rest of the body of Christ that worships together.
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RE: Where is the Church. The building or the person? - 7/22/2008 6:32:43 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6219
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: theo_book
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Theo_Book attends a church just like any one of us do. He just does it from the comfort of his living room sofa.
Theo Book does not "attend a church just like any one of you do." He IS the church, along with the rest of the body of Christ that worships together.
You're confusing the term 'church' a local gathering of born-again believers and the Church - the universal (global) body of all born-again believers.
I go to a gathering every now and then - just like you - why you say I am wrong for doing that is absurd.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Where is the Church. The building or the person? - 7/22/2008 8:00:08 PM
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theo_book
Posts: 570
Joined: 4/8/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: theo_book
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Theo_Book attends a church just like any one of us do. He just does it from the comfort of his living room sofa.
Theo Book does not "attend a church just like any one of you do." He IS the church, along with the rest of the body of Christ that worships together.
You're confusing the term 'church' a local gathering of born-again believers and the Church - the universal (global) body of all born-again believers.
I go to a gathering every now and then - just like you - why you say I am wrong for doing that is absurd.
No! I'm not!
The letters of Paul and the apostles were written to churches all over the world, and never was one addressed to a building. They were addressed to people.
Who do you think the Etheopian Eunich met with when he went on his way rejoicing? He WAS the church in Ethiopia for a while.
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RE: Where is the Church. The building or the person? - 7/22/2008 8:29:50 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6219
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: theo_book
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: theo_book
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Theo_Book attends a church just like any one of us do. He just does it from the comfort of his living room sofa.
Theo Book does not "attend a church just like any one of you do." He IS the church, along with the rest of the body of Christ that worships together.
You're confusing the term 'church' a local gathering of born-again believers and the Church - the universal (global) body of all born-again believers.
I go to a gathering every now and then - just like you - why you say I am wrong for doing that is absurd.
No! I'm not!
The letters of Paul and the apostles were written to churches all over the world, and never was one addressed to a building. They were addressed to people.
Who do you think the Etheopian Eunich met with when he went on his way rejoicing? He WAS the church in Ethiopia for a while.
What in the world are you talking about? One quick and dirty example - the Corinthian church was a building where the local Corinthian Christians would gather. Again, for some very odd reason you can't seem to comprehend the very basic differences of 'a church' and the Church.
Wow.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Where is the Church. The building or the person? - 7/22/2008 8:52:02 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 10624
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
Status: offline
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Objects and labels seem to really offend theo for some reason...
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~Kristin~
Resume Quotations: "I worked as a Corporate Lesion."
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RE: Where is the Church. The building or the person? - 7/22/2008 9:18:10 PM
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BibleL7
Posts: 493
Joined: 2/1/2008
Status: offline
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The Church is the body of believers. the building is also considered a church in separating that building from other buildings for the main purpose of that building is the gathering together of saints to worship our Lord and Savior. If you look in dictionary both meanings are listed under church.
For purpose if clarification, not all first century fellowships took place in homes congregations did gather in other places and many particularly as those started by the other apostles, Paul was not only one, did in fact gather together in buildings built for the purpose of worship. And there were leaders appointed over the congregations. These leaders were to teach the church as well as keep discipline within the body, so as to keep false teaching out.
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RE: Where is the Church. The building or the person? - 7/22/2008 9:21:36 PM
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BibleL7
Posts: 493
Joined: 2/1/2008
Status: offline
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BTW Baptists and Assemblies of God as far as I recolect do not consider themselves as denominations.
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