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adminlogin -> Purpose-driven life (7/10/2008 5:10:56 AM)

Whose purpose? Rick Warren's or our Lord Jesus Christ's?

How many here have read the book? Don't you guys find it rather overhyped and its theology a little out of wack?

At the end of the day, it's not so much God speaking to us what we should do with our life but more of a mortal's idea of how we should live on this Earth. I find that very disturbing to no end!

[:@]

Your brother in Christ,
Caleb



Soxfan -> RE: Purpose-driven life (7/10/2008 1:21:00 PM)

Our church joined the Purpose Driven bandwagon a few years ago. We got halfway through it and the leadership realized that it was unbilical and dropped it like a hot potato.

He uses 15 different bible translations to fit into his point, he quotes well know atheists, etc.

The theology isn't really out of whack, because technically there is no theology.

I'd rather call it the "Purpose DRIVEL Life"



Calea37 -> RE: Purpose-driven life (7/11/2008 8:39:31 AM)

It is just another hyped up desperate attempt to grow the church in numbers without having to seek God's will.



JimboFletch -> RE: Purpose-driven life (7/11/2008 8:52:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: adminlogin
How many here have read the book? Don't you guys find it rather overhyped and its theology a little out of wack?

I read the book. It's message is very basic Christianity without much depth.

What SPECIFIC complaints do you have about the book? Most of the griping I've seen about it has been very, very generalized and often by folk that seem to just dislike Baptists.



e.barrett -> RE: Purpose-driven life (7/11/2008 9:12:44 AM)

I personally disagreed with the first part of the book. But it was very straight up reformed theology. RC Sproul could have written it I think. I just happen to disagree with some aspects of that tradition. But I don't remember reading anything I thought was unbiblical. I agree with JimboFletch, it is very basic Christianity without much depth.

And for what it tried to accomplish, I think that's fine.



blueshadow -> RE: Purpose-driven life (7/12/2008 2:02:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Soxfan

Our church joined the Purpose Driven bandwagon a few years ago. We got halfway through it and the leadership realized that it was unbilical and dropped it like a hot potato.

He uses 15 different bible translations to fit into his point, he quotes well know atheists, etc.

The theology isn't really out of whack, because technically there is no theology.

I'd rather call it the "Purpose DRIVEL Life"


Is there something wrong with using 15 different Bible translations?

I'm about to read this book - I've heard a lot about it and want to see if it's any good. I've heard good things about it so far, though I haven't done much research on it.



bzirk -> RE: Purpose-driven life (7/12/2008 2:58:15 PM)

I agree it covers very basic Christianity; however, a lot of things that are very basic Christianity are things so profound that we need to keep plumbing the depths.

That said, the book was so popular IMO (yep, it's just my opinion) because of the style in which it was written and not so much what it said, 'cause nothing in it was new. The prose is very, very simplistic and Warren takes little or no time to develop a point. He just hits between the eyes with it, which sometimes is helpful and sometimes confusing. I think he chose this dumbed down style because he understood his audience (meaning the masses he was trying to reach who receive most information or teaching via the tv and do not really read and study). That's my unvarnished opinion -- condecending as some might think it, that's what I firmly believe was at work in helping the book's popularity.

The thing I intensely disliked about the book was the hype that a transformation would occur after the 40-day spiritual journey -- as if it were a given. But to be fair to Warren, way too many Christian books make those kinds of claims. I'm heartily sick of that.

As for anything unBiblical, I don't remember anything being really off base, but it's also been about seven or eight years since I read the book, and I've read a couple of books since then. [8D] If anyone would like to get specific about what they found objectional, please post it. I guess I'm curious about what some of you took such exception to.

Thanks.



colliefan -> RE: Purpose-driven life (7/12/2008 3:13:36 PM)

The book was Christian cotton candy. Tastes good, but full of air and sugar. My beef is that he used a translation, sometimes stoping in mid-passage - to make his point rather than let scripture interpret scipture.
To have to constantly look to the references for verse and translation was maddening.

But the notion of going from "it's not about you" to finding "your purpose" in a mere fourty days is insane.

I wish he would have included a study of both biblical and extra-biblical characters who found their purpose. But in most cases it took a life instead of little over a month.



bzirk -> RE: Purpose-driven life (7/12/2008 3:16:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan

But the notion of going from "it's not about you" to finding "your purpose" in a mere fourty days is insane.



Yep, that's what I didn't like -- as if the book was divinely inspired to do that. Cut me a break.

Anyway, that's what really put me off of it more than anything.



bride48 -> RE: Purpose-driven life (7/12/2008 3:26:33 PM)

I hated how he'd stretch Scripture out of context, selecting translations for the purpose of proving his point. In the past, I did the same thing, but it's really a dishonest handling of God's Word. I've since repented. Maybe Warren has too.



bzirk -> RE: Purpose-driven life (7/12/2008 3:29:59 PM)

I remember a few places where he made a stretch, but the initial point of the day was good. I guess using an appropriate scripture to make the point would have possibly taken too much time for people to disgest. That's how it appears anyway.

Having said that, I really don't want to put Warren down. I certainly don't think he's perfect, but I also don't think he's deserving of being castigated as he was so often the first few years after the book came out.



SuspenseWriter -> RE: Purpose-driven life (7/12/2008 6:13:42 PM)

quote:

I certainly don't think he's perfect, but I also don't think he's deserving of being castigated as he was so often the first few years after the book came out.


Sadly, if there's one thing I've found in the 35+ years I've been saved, it's that nobody, and I mean nobody, is better than Christians when it comes to eviscerating each other. Sometimes the ferocity with which we rip and tear at our own brothers and sisters causes me to wonder how our faith has endured these two thousand years. But endured it has, and I'm grateful.



colliefan -> RE: Purpose-driven life (7/12/2008 8:54:22 PM)

But given the thesis, the book could have been much better, instead of cherry-picking translations to prove his point, he could of done an exegisis of relevant passages and then send the reader to other passages to dig deeper on each topic. He could of send the reader to classic books on the faith. Instead, it was just a book packaged for our consumer-driven, rather than Holy Spirit led Christianity. The best book I have found on the subject is Larry Boa's Conformed to His Image. Rather than forty days, the book will take several months to work through because it is so deep.



Focusing -> RE: Purpose-driven life (7/12/2008 9:03:50 PM)

Hmm ... another thread on the PDL book. This is what I had posted previously.


I read this book as a brand new baby Christian many years ago. It spoke to me on a whole different level. Stepping into a Baptist church as a brand new baby Christian would have caused me to run screaming and decide I would never ever understand the Bible so why bother. (Not speaking for anyone but myself and where I was coming from in my search through various religions over the years.)

While there are much better books to be read, I will not disagree about that, I believe Rick Warren has a heart for God and desires to bring people to Him. I view his book as planting seeds ... some will take and grow, some will not. There are so many different preaching and teaching styles available today - certainly the teachers of today are much different than they were in the days of the early church - and there is a lot of debate as to who is "best" or "better" or "acceptable" ... but I believe the end result is to bring nonbelievers to Christ. Different people will hear teaching from the same person, and one person will really feel moved by the Spirit and it's entirely possible that the person sitting right next to them will feel nothing.

We are slammed with so many people coming at us from so many angles telling us to believe this or believe that, teaching from one translation of the Bible or another, and granted some translations are better than others, but I think the point is that Rick Warren is trying to present the Gospel in a manner that is nonoffensive to those who know absolutely nothing about God and His truths, and hopefully many (like myself) will take a Bible and compare it to what he has written in his book, and that will be the beginning of their digging into God's Word. That's what I did, and many of my friends did it as well. While the views along our paths vary, the book did point us to a starting place to The Path ... to Jesus.

Jesus went from town to town and taught the people in a manner that spoke to them. While I am not comparing Rick Warren, or any of the other popular preachers, to Jesus, I believe the various teaching styles available for us to pick and choose from allow us to find someone who can speak to us in a language that we understand. And that's key in having the seed take root and grow. We all offer different types of soil, and if it's the wrong kind of seed, chances of it growing can very well be diminished without the proper kind of attention. And, quite unfortunately, a lot of us do not get the proper kind of attention (mentoring, guidance).


quote:

quote:

So I don't think this book can hurt someone by striking up a hunger that will lead to the Word. JMO.


My opinion too.


I want to address the issue about The Purpose Driven Life being one of the highest selling books in history. I have even heard that it has now outsold the Bible. I don't know if that's true or not ... but rather than dwell on these numbers, let's consider that we have access to several different translations of the Bible online - free!! Never mind we can simply google a verse, and voila! There it is. Let's think about the convenience factor of that - no more fumbling around, getting frustrated because a new believer, or someone looking into God's Word for the first time, just isn't familiar with where things are in the Bible - they are pretty apt to just set it down and say forget about it. (I admit having done this many many years ago.) Is the PDL book available online? Nope. Gotta buy the book.

Now, I'm addressing this issue because I have heard the debate that people think new believers are following after the PDL book and not the Bible. I just don't accept that. I personally do not know a single person who has done this - and I know many people who have started their spiritual walk with this book. I see it as a book to be used as a tool to encourage people to dig into the Word of God - go to the Bible yourself, dig in, immerse yourself, get lost in Him and His Word and see what He is saying to you.

The bottom line is, if it's not the Bible you are reading, it's nothing but another person's interpretation and perspective.



bzirk -> RE: Purpose-driven life (7/12/2008 9:15:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan

But given the thesis, the book could have been much better, instead of cherry-picking translations to prove his point, he could of done an exegisis of relevant passages and then send the reader to other passages to dig deeper on each topic. He could of send the reader to classic books on the faith. Instead, it was just a book packaged for our consumer-driven, rather than Holy Spirit led Christianity.



I definitely think Warren was writing for people who don't see things like you and I. But it's an interesting thing about the Holy Spirit. He can work no matter the situation, and I do believe the Lord has used Rick Warren and Purpose Driven Life. I don't want my snobbery about how I'd like things to be done to get in the way of seeing that something good has and can occur even when package isn't to my taste. BTW, I do like the very simple and to the point prose that Warren adopted. I think that people move so quickly and are so used to processing things without a lot of fuss that it was a good book for this age.



colliefan -> RE: Purpose-driven life (7/12/2008 10:45:38 PM)

quote:

I think that people move so quickly and are so used to processing things without a lot of fuss that it was a good book for this age.


Agree that people are used to processing with minimal fuss. Not certain if this is a good thing. What happened to being catechized?



bzirk -> RE: Purpose-driven life (7/12/2008 10:51:09 PM)

As a first step, I think it can be fine, and if I hadn't seen several new Christians who have progressed beyond an introduction via Purpose Driven Life, I might think it was more of a stumbling block (and yes, anything can be a stumbling block). I'm not saying it's the way all Christians should be introduced to some basics, but it is fine. I recall in my youth that there were lots of little booklets from Intervarsity Press and Navigators that did the same thing.



soma77 -> RE: Purpose-driven life (7/13/2008 2:20:42 PM)

I see nothing wrong with the book. I wish it would of gone a little deeper in thought, but now realize the author didn't because people don't even get or reject his shallow thoughts.

Why are our fellow Christians afraid? We walk with the Lord the strongest force, but project fear and disgust.

Know others is strength, but knowing yourself is wisdom.



sunshine4God -> RE: Purpose-driven life (7/14/2008 10:47:42 AM)

I have read Purpose Driven Life twice and love it.I find it very helpful and interesting.



Soxfan -> RE: Purpose-driven life (7/15/2008 9:45:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: blueshadow

quote:

ORIGINAL: Soxfan

Our church joined the Purpose Driven bandwagon a few years ago. We got halfway through it and the leadership realized that it was unbilical and dropped it like a hot potato.

He uses 15 different bible translations to fit into his point, he quotes well know atheists, etc.

The theology isn't really out of whack, because technically there is no theology.

I'd rather call it the "Purpose DRIVEL Life"


Is there something wrong with using 15 different Bible translations?


There is if you use them to fit your point instead of fitting your point to Scripture



Soxfan -> RE: Purpose-driven life (7/15/2008 9:48:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SuspenseWriter

quote:

I certainly don't think he's perfect, but I also don't think he's deserving of being castigated as he was so often the first few years after the book came out.


Sadly, if there's one thing I've found in the 35+ years I've been saved, it's that nobody, and I mean nobody, is better than Christians when it comes to eviscerating each other. Sometimes the ferocity with which we rip and tear at our own brothers and sisters causes me to wonder how our faith has endured these two thousand years. But endured it has, and I'm grateful.


Hmmm...the Bible COMMANDS us to test all teaching against Scripture and when it doesn't pass that test, it is to be exposed.

Rick Warren and his Purpose Driven theology does NOT pass



JimboFletch -> RE: Purpose-driven life (7/15/2008 10:06:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Soxfan
There is if you use them to fit your point instead of fitting your point to Scripture

I use that kind of shotgun attack whenever I don't have anything to backup my feeling on a topic. Since I'm sure you never do that, can you pretty please with sugar on top provide five (5) concrete examples from the PDL that are untrue and unbiblical (not that you disagree with the use of a particular scripture, but that the point made is untrue and unbiblical).

Thanks a whole bunch in advance!



alias007 -> RE: Purpose-driven life (7/15/2008 4:14:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Soxfan

Our church joined the Purpose Driven bandwagon a few years ago. We got halfway through it and the leadership realized that it was unbilical and dropped it like a hot potato.

He uses 15 different bible translations to fit into his point, he quotes well know atheists, etc.

The theology isn't really out of whack, because technically there is no theology.

I'd rather call it the "Purpose DRIVEL Life"


I'm curious, too- I would be interested in seeing some concrete examples of how PDL is "unbiblical." Also, what well known athiests are quoted and to what purpose?

I read the book years ago, and I don't remember anything theologically unsound, but I'm sure it's possible I missed something. That's why I was interested in some examples of what you referred to as "unbiblical."



1love1God1way -> RE: Purpose-driven life (7/15/2008 6:15:47 PM)

This is a quickie that I wrote up for another "Purpose Driven Life" discussion about Rick Warrens proof-texting:

quote:

Rick Warrens version of Proverbs 18:5 "The intelligent man is always open to new ideas. In fact, he looks for them."


What the Bible says: Proverbs 18:15 "The mind of the prudent acquires knowledge, and the ear of the wise seeks knowledge."

There are no "new ideas" that we are to search for, but to uncover the objective truths in Scripture.

Rick Warrens version of Proverbs 16:4 "The Lord has made everything for his own purposes."

The Bibles: Proverbs 16:4 "The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, even the wicked for punishment."

Rick Warrens entire book overlooks and glosses over the seriousness and the issues of sin. But omitting the second half of the verse (prooftexting it), he is able to create his own gospel, aside from the one we are given (as mentioned in my previous post, he writes to non-believers as if they are believers).


Warren's use of Matthew 16:25 "Self-help is no help at all. Self-sacrifice is the way, my way, to finding yourself, your true self." He uses this to say that if you want a more successful life, you need more than self-help advice.

What Matthew 16:25 actually says. "For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it." Warren, ignoring context, and using horrible paraphrases, loses the very essence of what Christ was talking about.

I could go on, but this is a start.

I will add, though, that more startling than his poor theology that he does use, is the doctrine he simply leaves out. The gospel message is presented with no notion of repentance, the cross, the reason Jesus died, or the eternal consequences of sin. He emphasizes the gifts of grace, rather than man's depravity and a need for a Savior.

God's love is emphasized, his wrath completely ignored (pg. 294 "God never made a person He didn't love.") Warren discusses that unity is the number one goal of the church. Important, yes. Primary? Hebrews 10:25 is about doctrinal purity.

Again, I could go on.

I will conclude with this. . . Warren preaches a "gospel-lite" version.

Put down the milk. Get some meat.



sue244 -> RE: Purpose-driven life (7/15/2008 7:14:02 PM)

I picked up PDL a few years ago when the church I was going to at the time and I couldn't get past the first week in the book because of the low view of Scripture I saw presented.
1. He has to use 15 pluse translations/paraphrased versions of the Bible to prove his point.
2. Most of the Bible quotes are not even from translations but from paraphrased versions (aka over glorified commentary)
3. He puts the reference in the back of the book so that you have to 1, look at the number, 2 flip to the back, 3 find the right chapter notes, 4 find the right number to get the reference.
If this book was written as people have said for people who don't read alot and get most of their info from the internet or tv then it would have made sense for him to just put the reference right after the quote sot hat people don't have to hunt for them

Another problem I had with the book when I went back and read it through to see what it was really saying,
1. It lacked a clear presentation of the Gospel, oh it had a feel good presention but not the Gospel. No mention of sin, repentance, hell, God's Holiness and Justice.

So couple with a low view of Scripture and a lack of clear presentation of the Gospel I have problems with PDL. As Rick Warren became more well known it has become clear what way he leans and where his priorities are and they are in a totally different direction then what I see presented in the Bible so that makes me even more warry of PDL then I was already.

Oh BTW Jumbo its not because I don't like Baptist, I am a Baptist.



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