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RE: Strong Meat? - 7/11/2008 6:25:07 PM
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sunofone
Posts: 551
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RJR_fan
quote:
There are so many Americans that don't even realize that America and our founding Fathers were free Masons which were a secret society and our Country is rooted in the teachings and beliefs of these Masons,which were not Christians as you and I know Christians to be.
The Mayflower Compact was made "in the Name of God, Amen."
The Declaration of Independence invoked "the laws of Nature, and of Nature's God."
The Constitution, the lawyer's construct that formally secularized this continent and declared our national independence from God, was made in the name of another deity -- "We, the people." In practice, "we, the people" usually means "we professionals who exercise unrestricted power in the name of the people."
Since our constitution establishes a deliberately secular order, it declares that the City of Man can do without the City of God. The remnants of a Christian civil order have given place, step by step, to the designs of the Masons, who architected a "new world order."
Strong meat: applying God's Word to external realities, as well as to our own precious souls. To church, family, and civil order.
Rj,I see you're in my neck of the woods.I'm in Kinston NC.Good info you just chimed in.It's amazing how much info is there all the time.Everything is readily available yet remains unknown or goes unseen.
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RE: Strong Meat? - 7/11/2008 7:05:18 PM
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small_creation
Posts: 341
Joined: 10/30/2007
From: midwest
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
What is the meat of the gospel?
Love yer neighbor.
j
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RE: Strong Meat? - 7/11/2008 9:42:42 PM
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RJR_fan
Posts: 716
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: RTP, in sunny NC USA
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quote:
Love yer neighbor.
My muslim, hindu, and secular humanist friends woiuld be glad to agree that this is the essence of the gospel. After all, this sentiment includes none of that embarrassing stuff about a crucified Jew.
_____________________________
The future has never been shaped by majorities but rather by dedicated minorities. And free men do not wait for the future; they create it. RJR
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RE: Strong Meat? - 7/11/2008 9:46:45 PM
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RJR_fan
Posts: 716
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: RTP, in sunny NC USA
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quote:
Everything is readily available yet remains unknown or goes unseen.
Actually, we're economic refugees from Virginia. Don't know how long it takes to become a real tarheel.
"The gospel is like a joke told to a circle of men. And one man smiles." (Ivan Illych, my favorite Marxist Jesuit.)
During the Welsh revival a century ago, English-speaking churches in the same area were untouched.
During the Jesus Movement, kids fresh out of the counterculture saw God work miracles -- while traditional "church Christians" continued doing traditional church things ... experiences like that mark a man, and give him stuff to think about for decades.
_____________________________
The future has never been shaped by majorities but rather by dedicated minorities. And free men do not wait for the future; they create it. RJR
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RE: Strong Meat? - 7/11/2008 10:06:57 PM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 1687
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From: The Crossroads of America
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
You're getting lots of good responses. Yes, the Lord desires to reveal Himself, longs for those who get beyond milk and crave meat. But as DaveW said, these things must be sought after such as Proverbs 2 teaches. God does not give His pearls to swine. But He longs to have children who draw close and desire His pearls.
Edited to add:
Read ICor 2. Spiritual things are spirtually revealed. It is a work of the Spirit.
I already know that meat is for mature Christians and all Christians are part of the family of God; his family is not made up of swine. It would be rude as well as unbiblical to say so!
Do you and others consider meat to be Christian doctrines? Most people aren't answering my question(s).
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RE: Strong Meat? - 7/11/2008 10:24:41 PM
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sunofone
Posts: 551
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
You're getting lots of good responses. Yes, the Lord desires to reveal Himself, longs for those who get beyond milk and crave meat. But as DaveW said, these things must be sought after such as Proverbs 2 teaches. God does not give His pearls to swine. But He longs to have children who draw close and desire His pearls.
Edited to add:God permit not time.
Read ICor 2. Spiritual things are spirtually revealed. It is a work of the Spirit.
I already know that meat is for mature Christians and all Christians are part of the family of God; his family is not made up of swine. It would be rude as well as unbiblical to say so!
Do you and others consider meat to be Christian doctrines? Most people aren't answering my question(s).
I think the question is unanswerable if you're looking for a concrete response.I heard you ask earlier if meat is equivalent to the tulip teaching or doctrine.That may represent meat to you or those who happen to believe in tulip,but it's not right to say that meat equals tulip.
Doctrine may be indicative of meat,but meat is not doctrine.Hebrews 6 list the six principle doctrines of the NT and yet says it's,elementary, milk,baby stuff.It was foundational doctrine,which is to say that we build off of it and go on unto maturity or meat.
So I don't think you can expect anyone here to say any one particular thing is meat,to the exclusion of all others.The whole bible is meat,just as manna was a valuable food source for the child,the young adult and the old.
Meat is that revelation God provides to the mature.Is it any wonder the writer didn't go on to enumerate exactly what meat was?He said this we will do if God permits,and proceeded to speak on issues that were indeed meat,yet he didn't say and this which follows is meat.
The whole bible is meat,not any one particular doctrine.
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RE: Strong Meat? - 7/11/2008 11:27:40 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1895
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I'm sorry if we weren't answering the question you had. But I agree with sonofone, it would be the weightier things that are lived out and would include suffering. And it is not the same 'meat' for each one. God knows just what 'meat' it takes to conform each one to Jesus' image. 
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RE: Strong Meat? - 7/11/2008 11:48:12 PM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 1687
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sunofone
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
I already know that meat is for mature Christians and all Christians are part of the family of God; his family is not made up of swine. It would be rude as well as unbiblical to say so!
Do you and others consider meat to be Christian doctrines? Most people aren't answering my question(s).
I think the question is unanswerable if you're looking for a concrete response.I heard you ask earlier if meat is equivalent to the tulip teaching or doctrine.That may represent meat to you or those who happen to believe in tulip,but it's not right to say that meat equals tulip.
Because I know that not all people accept T. U. L. I. P., I asked the following:
"Would it be doctrines such as T. U. L. I. P. or The Remonstrant Articles?"
quote:
ORIGINAL: sunofone
Doctrine may be indicative of meat,but meat is not doctrine. Hebrews 6 list the six principle doctrines of the NT and yet says it's,elementary, milk,baby stuff. It was foundational doctrine, which is to say that we build off of it and go on unto maturity or meat.
But why isn't meat referring to doctrines? In Isaiah it is:
Isaiah 28
9Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
http://faithcommunitynetwork.com/fb.aspx?m=3604806
quote:
ORIGINAL: sunofone
So I don't think you can expect anyone here to say any one particular thing is meat,to the exclusion of all others.The whole bible is meat,just as manna was a valuable food source for the child,the young adult and the old.
Meat is that revelation God provides to the mature.Is it any wonder the writer didn't go on to enumerate exactly what meat was?He said this we will do if God permits,and proceeded to speak on issues that were indeed meat,yet he didn't say and this which follows is meat.
The whole bible is meat,not any one particular doctrine.
I don't understand why the whole Bible is meat if some of it is milk. ???
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RE: Strong Meat? - 7/12/2008 2:49:46 AM
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Annie64
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I would say that yes, generally, doctrine=meat. If you study and compare T.U.L.I.P. to the Remonstrant articles and compare both to Scripture and prayerfully try to learn what God has to say about both, I'd have to say you're going deeper than most Christians ever do, so yes, that would be strong meat.
_____________________________
On Christ the solid rock I stand
ALL other ground is sinking sand.
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RE: Strong Meat? - 7/12/2008 3:22:49 AM
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semperfidelis
Posts: 363
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From: Let me think on that.
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RJR_fan said it: The Kingdom of God.
Most people never get past the concepts and understanding which is on the level of milk and never realize that the beginning of what Jesus was teaching was the Kingdom of God. And that's just the beginning, not the end or the middle of what He wanted us to know. There is nothing hidden, it's all in plain sight -- but few ever spend the time to actually read the Bible, study, and meditate on His Word. It is not that part of the Bible is milk, it's that the concepts and understanding we have is milk.
In math and physics terms, milk is like saying "Force = Mass * Acceleration". The meat of that statement is actually a calculus equation (which I can't remember). But few people ever dig in deep enough to discover the calculus equation that unlocks a ton more of knowledge and understanding of physics and our world.
The whole Bible is meat if we would study it. The Pharisees would have had meat if they'd properly studied what was given to them. However, they stagnated, twisted it into a legalistic mess and therefore could not read it for the truth that was in it -- then they would have expected Jesus to come as He did and would have believed in Him. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Joshua, Caleb, David, and many others understood the heart of the Law and what it pointed to -- redemption and relationship, not religion and condemnation.
2 Tim. 3:16 - 17, "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."
The wars, the begats, the laws, the "rituals", the prophecies, the poetry, the "history" (they're actually prophecy) -- all useful.
Everything is important.
Knowledge does not equal understanding. Doctrine is only ever knowledge until you understand and live the life that only comes from God and is partially revealed through understanding. Knowledge applied can look like understanding, but isn't.
< Message edited by semperfidelis -- 7/12/2008 3:30:30 AM >
_____________________________
The man in the arena....
If I rise and succeed, it's because His hand has lifted me.
I may not have 3 greek letters but I have 2 latin words: SEMPER FIDELIS (no, I'm not a marine, but we like the same things)
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RE: Strong Meat? - 7/12/2008 4:19:36 AM
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SinnerSaved
Posts: 326
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From: Belfast, N. Ireland
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The parables Jesus told those who followed Him would have been milk to some, and meat to others. Some would have heard a simple story, maybe at best scratching the surface of what He meant. Others would have heard foundational truths by searching deeper through contemplation and prayer. How many times did He say 'Those that have ears, let them hear'?
Matthew 13:13-17
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
Even the Apostles sometimes got it wrong. Whilst He was talking about the wickedness of the Pharisees and Saducees (meat) they were babbling about food that they forgot to bring (milk):
Matthew 16:6-12
Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees. And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have taken no bread. Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread? Do ye not yet understand, neither remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets ye took up? Neither the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many baskets ye took up? How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
_____________________________
"Dance like nobody's watching; love like you've never been hurt. Sing like nobody's listening; live like it's heaven on earth."
Mark Twain
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RE: Strong Meat? - 7/12/2008 4:26:54 AM
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sunofone
Posts: 551
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quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: sunofone
Doctrine may be indicative of meat,but meat is not doctrine. Hebrews 6 list the six principle doctrines of the NT and yet says it's,elementary, milk,baby stuff. It was foundational doctrine, which is to say that we build off of it and go on unto maturity or meat.
But why isn't meat referring to doctrines? In Isaiah it is:
Isaiah 28
9Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
http://faithcommunitynetwork.com/fb.aspx?m=3604806
My point is that doctrine in and of itself is not meat.The writer in Hebrews agrees.As the writer mentioned six foundational doctrines that were considered milk.So doctrine in and of itself is not meat,although meat can most certainly include doctrine.
quote:
ORIGINAL: sunofone
So I don't think you can expect anyone here to say any one particular thing is meat,to the exclusion of all others.The whole bible is meat,just as manna was a valuable food source for the child,the young adult and the old.
Meat is that revelation God provides to the mature.Is it any wonder the writer didn't go on to enumerate exactly what meat was?He said this we will do if God permits,and proceeded to speak on issues that were indeed meat,yet he didn't say and this which follows is meat.
The whole bible is meat,not any one particular doctrine.
I don't understand why the whole Bible is meat if some of it is milk. ???
The whole bible can be milk, just as the whole bible can be meat.It's all milk to the unskilled,the immature,yet it is meat to the mature and skilled handler of the word.The bible is a scalpel in the hands of a surgeon, a sword in the hands of a warrior,both of these instruments can bring both life and death,in accordance with the skill of the one who handles it.It's called being able to rightly divide the word of truth,a workman/professional of the trade that is not unskilled properly wielding the sword of truth.
I happened upon a thread the other day where they were discussing whether Adam & Eve had belly buttons or not.It was a seemingly innocuous thread.intended for amusement.
I interjected and asked if the OP would mind if I attempted to explore it's more spiritual significance,she said I don't think the question has any spiritual significance, but you're welcome to share if you want to.I left it dead right there,it's amazing how little we see,how little we explore.
Even scripture which point to truths that on face value seem foundational can be full of meat.The story of Adam & Eve,I guarantee you that I could spend the better part of my life exploring the unseen treasures there that have profound ramifications on my understanding of God's will.
In fact I submit to you that the greater church world community is leaving a lot of meat on them bones.
The same can be said for any given part of the bible.Genealogies for instance,there tedious seemingly irrelevant passages of the bible.They almost get in the way of good of reading.
If we were being honest most times we read right over it,or should I say around it,yet it is profoundly important.Once again I could spend a great deal of time exploring it's significance as it does have significance beyond showing the line of Jesus.
The whole bible is meat.Jesus said that he had meat that they knew not of,and his disciples wondered if someone had gave him food to eat that they were unaware of.He stated that his meat was to do the will of his Father.
Meat is food,spiritual food which is synonymous with the carrying out understanding of God's will.Everything in the bible points to helps guide one in understanding the will/plan of God.Meat is when you mature and realize that you must be about the will of the one who created you.
Being full of doctrine is great even necessary but the last thing you want to end up being is a Pharisees supposing that you have arrived at all truth and proselytizing others according to your flawed/ stale revelation.
Meat is getting it.Getting it, is being let in on the hidden treasure reserved for the children of God.
When you have meat you know it,because you know it's not milk.Everyone here that is truly a child of God and not just playing games knows what I'm talking about.You have been let in on some secret things of God,some hidden treasures/nuggets.
I suppose a proper summation of meat would be knowing the will and performing the will of him who called and sent you.
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RE: Strong Meat? - 7/12/2008 5:05:12 AM
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SinnerSaved
Posts: 326
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Belfast, N. Ireland
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Wonderful post Sunofone. You managed to put over your point, very succinctly. I agree everything you said.
_____________________________
"Dance like nobody's watching; love like you've never been hurt. Sing like nobody's listening; live like it's heaven on earth."
Mark Twain
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RE: Strong Meat? - 7/12/2008 6:59:21 AM
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RJR_fan
Posts: 716
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: RTP, in sunny NC USA
Status: online
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quote:
So I don't think you can expect anyone here to say any one particular thing is meat,to the exclusion of all others.
Try this:
- Milk: God's Word applied to me, my soul, my experiences. Using the Bible in an internalized ("spiritual"), introverted, self-centered fashion.
- Meat: God's Word as I apply it to my vocation, church, family, and community. Using the Bible in an externalized ("practical"), extroverted, Kingdom-centered fashion.
As an Arminian, I was like a car on ice -- spinning my wheels, making a lot of noise, expending a lot of energy, and going nowhere. I was in that stream of teaching that measures progress by the depth and intensity of one's (reported, alleged) Christian "experience."
The Reformed faith gave me traction, and worthy projects to apply the energy to.
_____________________________
The future has never been shaped by majorities but rather by dedicated minorities. And free men do not wait for the future; they create it. RJR
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RE: Strong Meat? - 7/12/2008 9:20:36 AM
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sunofone
Posts: 551
Joined: 10/11/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SinnerSaved
Wonderful post Sunofone. You managed to put over your point, very succinctly. I agree everything you said.
I actually thought your post made the point better and was less wordy than mine.I'm trying to work on the wordiness thing 
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RE: Strong Meat? - 7/12/2008 9:29:47 AM
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sunofone
Posts: 551
Joined: 10/11/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RJR_fan
quote:
So I don't think you can expect anyone here to say any one particular thing is meat,to the exclusion of all others.
Try this:
- Milk: God's Word applied to me, my soul, my experiences. Using the Bible in an internalized ("spiritual"), introverted, self-centered fashion.
- Meat: God's Word as I apply it to my vocation, church, family, and community. Using the Bible in an externalized ("practical"), extroverted, Kingdom-centered fashion.
As an Arminian, I was like a car on ice -- spinning my wheels, making a lot of noise, expending a lot of energy, and going nowhere. I was in that stream of teaching that measures progress by the depth and intensity of one's (reported, alleged) Christian "experience."
The Reformed faith gave me traction, and worthy projects to apply the energy to.
RJR,I don't know how I managed to avoid running into you for over a year now,especially since you're in my back yard and we seem to think an awful lot alike 
I really like the application of meat you offered.I think meat really is less about having all your ducks in a row,I.E. doctrine and more about being aligned with God's will,which certainly encompasses having a sound doctrinal understanding.
In fact I think most Christians or rather some do not even get to meat because they're still storing up yesterdays manna.It's kind of hard to move on to meat if you're already full,if you don't even recognize that you need to receive from God your daily bread.
Jesus is that manna that God opened up from the windows of heaven that was poured out that there is not enough room to receive him,kind of gives you a new perspective on no room at the Inn 
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RE: Strong Meat? - 7/12/2008 10:33:53 AM
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makarizo
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Heb 5:13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant.
Heb 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.
Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment.
Heb 5:12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles......
quote:
What is the meat of the gospel?
God's love is the meat of the gospel.
-'the good Samaritan' Lk 10:25
-'the bridegoom' Mk 2:20
-'the lost sheep' Lk 15
-'the lampstand' lk 8:16
-'the lost coin' lk 15:8
-'the vine' Jn 15
-'the banquet' Lk 14:15
the Hebrews wanted to wash their hands, and wear special clothing, practice rituals (stuff that is at the beginning of becoming a Christian)
_____________________________
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RE: Strong Meat? - 7/12/2008 11:14:57 AM
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RJR_fan
Posts: 716
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: RTP, in sunny NC USA
Status: online
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quote:
God's love is the meat of the gospel.
Oh, yes. That substantial bit of logic is real helpful when two Christian teenagers are wrestling with their passions (and one another) in the back seat of the Ford on Saturday night. It's real easy to apply the Golden Rule in that situation, isn't it? Especially since each kid is longing to be treated/handled in a specific way! And "how can it be wrong, if it feels so right? so "loving?"
Thanks for making a solid contribution to the conversation.
_____________________________
The future has never been shaped by majorities but rather by dedicated minorities. And free men do not wait for the future; they create it. RJR
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RE: Strong Meat? - 7/12/2008 12:11:00 PM
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makarizo
Posts: 3006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RJR_fan
quote:
God's love is the meat of the gospel.
Oh, yes. That substantial bit of logic is real helpful when two Christian teenagers are wrestling with their passions (and one another) in the back seat of the Ford on Saturday night. It's real easy to apply the Golden Rule in that situation, isn't it? Especially since each kid is longing to be treated/handled in a specific way! And "how can it be wrong, if it feels so right? so "loving?"
Thanks for making a solid contribution to the conversation.
I am not following your line of sarcasm here, but am inclined to surmise that you are missing something big if you think for one second that there is a trick, or a technique, or principle or some special form of action that can circumvent the Love of Christ which is the Holy Spirit. and that is what is called meat.
why are you calling the love of Christ a 'logical tidbit' and how could anything else be considered the meat of the gospel.
"feels right"? "loving"??
i will pass that along to the group from church going to Beijing
or to the new orphanages in Cambodia, Thailand, and china that we worked so hard to open up.
or to Jared (my 7th grade student) whose father slipped and fell, and is no more.
or to the 400 new members ..... 400 new members just this year- yes the church is being remodeled.
the single teen pregnant girls who sooooooooo need Jesus.
RJR, it is time for you to sell all your possessions, and give them to the poor.
but please don't criticize what you do not understand....... it doesn't feel right.
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RE: Strong Meat? - 7/12/2008 12:40:45 PM
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RJR_fan
Posts: 716
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From: RTP, in sunny NC USA
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quote:
RJR, it is time for you to sell all your possessions, and give them to the poor.
Actually, already done that, been there, got the tee shirt. It was definitely a learning experience!
Thanks for actually providing concrete examples to illustrate your formless injunction. "Love" can be interpreted in so many ways as to be a useless mandate, apart from factual specifics. Like John wrote, though, "This IS the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not grievous. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world. And this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith."
Love produces pragmatic, visible, and practical fruits. Results. As Christians, we need to be the people who live well, in a culture that adulates feelings above all else. This corrosion has seeped into the Church, and needs to be refuted and resisted from time to time.
_____________________________
The future has never been shaped by majorities but rather by dedicated minorities. And free men do not wait for the future; they create it. RJR
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RE: Strong Meat? - 7/13/2008 11:37:55 AM
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DaveW
Posts: 4106
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
And one more washing;
(Eph 5:26) That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That is true, RC, but the greek there is neither Bapto or Baptizo, hence my not including it.
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RE: Strong Meat? - 7/14/2008 12:16:19 PM
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DaveW
Posts: 4106
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From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RJR_fan
- Milk: God's Word applied to me, my soul, my experiences. Using the Bible in an internalized ("spiritual"), introverted, self-centered fashion.
- Meat: God's Word as I apply it to my vocation, church, family, and community. Using the Bible in an externalized ("practical"), extroverted, Kingdom-centered fashion.
Chapter and verse, please???
Could I submit to you all that the entire church today is so unaccustomed to meat that the milk of the word seems pretty meaty to us and that we all (myself included) fail to recognize real meat when we see it?
IMO, the meat of the gospel is living out Matt 28.19 - when we are discipled enough ourselves to start discipling others of all nations. Not just bringing them to faith but actually growing them up in the Lord.
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RE: Strong Meat? - 7/14/2008 5:33:32 PM
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RJR_fan
Posts: 716
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: RTP, in sunny NC USA
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quote:
when we are discipled enough ourselves to start discipling others of all nations. Not just bringing them to faith but actually growing them up in the Lord.
Careful -- it can be misleading to "add to" God's Word. As we learn to govern ourselves, like Joseph, we will be asked to take on additional responsibilities, and thereby to disciple ... nations. By preaching against the sins of theft and covetousness, for example, we can root out the evil of socialism, and release prosperity upon the Earth, at least for those nations that hear and heed.
God's Word is big enough to apply to everything. But it takes maturity to apply it!
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The future has never been shaped by majorities but rather by dedicated minorities. And free men do not wait for the future; they create it. RJR
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RE: Strong Meat? - 7/15/2008 6:40:45 AM
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DaveW
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You don't want me to add to the text? How does "make disciples of all goyim/gentiles" work for you? The Hebrew word goyim can mean "nations" or individuals of those nations. As Matthew was written to convince Jews of Jesus' claim to Messiahship, that meaning would have been culturally understood.
The word in the greek text that comes down to us is ethnos. Strongs defines it thusly:
a race (as of the same habit), that is, a tribe; specifically a foreign (non-Jewish) one (usually by implication pagan): - Gentile, heathen, nation, people.
I do believe the concept of taking over the government to train a country's system is a stretch of the text.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Strong Meat? - 7/17/2008 7:08:34 AM
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RJR_fan
Posts: 716
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: RTP, in sunny NC USA
Status: online
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quote:
I do believe the concept of taking over the government to train a country's system is a stretch of the text.
Well. You did listen well to what your public school teachers had to say -- "There is no government but Caesar. There is no culture outside of the State."
I had the joy of seeing soviet communism lose credibility on a global scale. Today, taxes are lower in Russia than they are here, and the Bible is taught in their schools. 300 million Chinese know some English, and American Christians who can help with language skills are welcomed in the middle kingdom.
Several million children in America are being systematically raised "in the nurture and admonition of the Lord," rather than in political Unitarianism. We are bypassing the central pillar of the secular humanist consensus machine, and teaching our children, "Thou shalt not steal. Not even by majority vote."
I talked to a high school graduate yesterday who intends to study Chinese and Arabic, so as to be prepared for opportunities God may send his way. Our family's ambitions are more modest -- Turkish uses a Latin alphabet.
I don't know which comprehensive world view -- Islam or secular humanism -- is going to collapse next. In either case, a billion or so of our fellow creatures, made in God's image, will suddenly be open to the gospel. But it will take a comprehensive world and life view to replace a shattered world.
You've just asserted that God's Word does not apply to civil government. Where else does God's Word not apply? What else is God's Word indifferent to, irrelevant to? In what other areas of life should we let unbelievers do our thinking and working for us?
Enquiring minds want to know, so please enlighten us!
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The future has never been shaped by majorities but rather by dedicated minorities. And free men do not wait for the future; they create it. RJR
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