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Ephesians4_32 -> Strong Meat? (7/11/2008 2:42:02 AM)

What is the meat of the gospel?



SinnerSaved -> RE: Strong Meat? (7/11/2008 2:45:59 AM)

John 3:16

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.



Ephesians4_32 -> RE: Strong Meat? (7/11/2008 2:55:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SinnerSaved

John 3:16

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


That is the first thing a Christian learns. Is it strong meat or milk?

Hebrews 5
13For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.



Annie64 -> RE: Strong Meat? (7/11/2008 3:43:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32

Hebrews 5
13For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.


The strong meat is Biblical doctrine that a person might not get until they've spent a good bit of time in Scripture and listening to sound teaching, praying, and seeking God for wisdom.



Ephesians4_32 -> RE: Strong Meat? (7/11/2008 4:59:15 AM)

Would it be doctrines such as T. U. L. I. P. or The Remonstrant Articles?



SinnerSaved -> RE: Strong Meat? (7/11/2008 10:33:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32

That is the first thing a Christian learns. Is it strong meat or milk?



You asked in your opening post, what is the 'meat' of the gospel. I took this to mean the 'gist,' the 'nub' or the 'essence' of the gospel, and responded with John 3:16

Clearly that is not what you meant. Sorry. However, I'm still not sure what you are really after, but tend to agree with Annie64.



doinkdom -> RE: Strong Meat? (7/11/2008 10:41:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
Would it be doctrines such as T. U. L. I. P. or The Remonstrant Articles?


Maybe...but it could be about walking out scripture in our daily lives. Living the gospel within our families, neighborhoods and workplaces.

Answering the question about what the gospel looks like in your life without going into the Jesus answer, but addressing the heart behind the lifestyle. Transforming our hearts more to be like God's.



LCannon -> RE: Strong Meat? (7/11/2008 12:04:47 PM)

1 Corinthians 2:14-"The unspiritual[petty, small]man[can't]receive the gifts of the Spirit of God for they are folly to him and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. 15 The spiritual[maturing]man judges all things but is himself to be judged by no one. 16 “For who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ. 3:1 But I, brethren, could not address you as spiritual[maturing]souls but as men of the flesh,[still content to be fed with a bottle or the breast]as babes in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk[elemental concepts], not solid food; for you were not ready for it[but you haven't progressed in your walk much further] 3 for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh, and behaving like ordinary men?"



Liveloved -> RE: Strong Meat? (7/11/2008 12:18:31 PM)

Hebrews 5:12-6:2 says,
"For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.

For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of rightousness, for he is a babe.

But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of instruction about washings, and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment."

I think you are right---meat is for the mature and goes beyond the gospel message of salvation. The writer of Hebrews calls it 'the word of righteousness' and says that the mature are ready for meat because practice has trained their senses to 'discern good and evil'.

My understanding of this is that the mature have persevered through their experiences. The work of faith, living and looking for what is not seen, is being accomplished in them. And because of this, they are ready for deeper, weightier things. The 'self' has been more thoroughly dealt with and they are ready and willing, desiring to receive more of God. Generally suffering is a part of this path as well.

I know others can probably describe this better than I but I wanted to attempt to share my understanding.[:)] LL



sunofone -> RE: Strong Meat? (7/11/2008 12:34:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32

What is the meat of the gospel?

I believe it is the hidden manna if you will.In other words it is the revelation of scripture that God shares with those who are ready to receive it.



DaveW -> RE: Strong Meat? (7/11/2008 12:44:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunofone
quote:

What is the meat of the gospel?
I believe it is the hidden manna if you will.In other words it is the revelation of scripture that God shares with those who are ready to receive it.
That sounds a lot like gnosticism. "hidden truth" and all.



DaveW -> RE: Strong Meat? (7/11/2008 12:49:51 PM)

According to Hebrews 6 this is what "strong meat" is NOT:

Heb 6:1 Wherefore leaving the doctrine of the first principles of Christ, let us press on unto perfection; not laying again a foundation (1) of repentance from dead works, and (2) of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 (3) of the teaching of baptisms, and (4) of laying on of hands, and (5) of resurrection of the dead, and (6) of eternal judgment.

Any teacings about these subjects are milk - for beginners. Strong meat goes beyond these.

As the end of chapter 5 says, most believers still need to get the milk down.



Ephesians4_32 -> RE: Strong Meat? (7/11/2008 12:51:30 PM)

I don't understand why some of the Gospel would be hidden from God's family (those who have been adopted by Him).

Don't the adopted children of God have all spiritual blessings? Doesn't scripture give us the complete word of God?

Ephesians 1
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:



Ephesians4_32 -> RE: Strong Meat? (7/11/2008 12:54:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Liveloved

Hebrews 5:12-6:2 says,
"For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.

For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of rightousness, for he is a babe.

But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of instruction about washings, and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment."

I think you are right---meat is for the mature and goes beyond the gospel message of salvation. The writer of Hebrews calls it 'the word of righteousness' and says that the mature are ready for meat because practice has trained their senses to 'discern good and evil'.

My understanding of this is that the mature have persevered through their experiences. The work of faith, living and looking for what is not seen, is being accomplished in them. And because of this, they are ready for deeper, weightier things. The 'self' has been more thoroughly dealt with and they are ready and willing, desiring to receive more of God. Generally suffering is a part of this path as well.

I know others can probably describe this better than I but I wanted to attempt to share my understanding.[:)] LL


I'm curious...what is "instruction about washings"?



DaveW -> RE: Strong Meat? (7/11/2008 12:56:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32

I don't understand why some of the Gospel would be hidden from God's family (those who have been adopted by Him).

Don't the adopted children of God have all spiritual blessings? Doesn't scripture give us the complete word of God?

Ephesians 1.3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Absolutely. There is nothing "hidden" as such. There are things that have to be dug up, and things that we need HIM to open our eyes to, but they are there all along. When you see it, you usually say to yourself: DUH!!!! WHy didn't I see that before?????



Ephesians4_32 -> RE: Strong Meat? (7/11/2008 1:02:57 PM)

I found this and wonder if it ties in with Hebrews:

Isaiah 28
9Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

10For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

I don't know the answer to my questions. I'm looking for input.



LCannon -> RE: Strong Meat? (7/11/2008 1:07:45 PM)

"...Doctrine of baptisms [washings]” has nothing to do with New Testament baptism. They refer to the washings of the Old Testament ritual, and there were many of them. The[some]Hebrew believers were wanting to return to these things which were only shadows; they were the negatives from which the spiritual pictures were developed. They prefigured Christ, the reality."-McGee, J. V. Thru the Bible commentary(electronic ed.)



Ephesians4_32 -> RE: Strong Meat? (7/11/2008 1:16:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LCannon

"...Doctrine of baptisms [washings]” has nothing to do with New Testament baptism. They refer to the washings of the Old Testament ritual, and there were many of them. The[some]Hebrew believers were wanting to return to these things which were only shadows; they were the negatives from which the spiritual pictures were developed. They prefigured Christ, the reality."-McGee, J. V. Thru the Bible commentary(electronic ed.)


So, does "instruction about washings" refer to Christian baptism or Old Testament rituals?



doinkdom -> RE: Strong Meat? (7/11/2008 1:37:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32

I found this and wonder if it ties in with Hebrews:

Isaiah 28
9Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

10For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

I don't know the answer to my questions. I'm looking for input.


Scripture interprets scripture - NT many times refers to OT and the OT refers many times to the coming Christ.

Is God sovereign? yes...scripture says as much
Based on that precept...does God know all things?
Past, present, future?
Is He surprised by anything as if He didn't know already?
And you're back again at reasoning through God being sovereign.

as for me...Deut 29:29 helps a lot with the headaches [:D]

“The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things that are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law.



Liveloved -> RE: Strong Meat? (7/11/2008 3:03:04 PM)

You're getting lots of good responses. Yes, the Lord desires to reveal Himself, longs for those who get beyond milk and crave meat. But as DaveW said, these things must be sought after such as Proverbs 2 teaches. God does not give His pearls to swine. But He longs to have children who draw close and desire His pearls.

Edited to add:

Read ICor 2. Spiritual things are spirtually revealed. It is a work of the Spirit.



DaveW -> RE: Strong Meat? (7/11/2008 3:21:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32

So, does "instruction about washings" refer to Christian baptism or Old Testament rituals?
Actually, they all are NT baptisms which are of course based on the Mikvah of Judaism.

There are these mentioned in the NT:

John's baptism
Christian water baptism
Baptism in the Holy Spirit
Baptism of fire
Baptism of suffering

Sorry, but McGee got this one wrong.



rcjames -> RE: Strong Meat? (7/11/2008 3:41:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32

So, does "instruction about washings" refer to Christian baptism or Old Testament rituals?
Actually, they all are NT baptisms which are of course based on the Mikvah of Judaism.

There are these mentioned in the NT:

John's baptism
Christian water baptism
Baptism in the Holy Spirit
Baptism of fire
Baptism of suffering

Sorry, but McGee got this one wrong.


And one more washing;

(Eph 5:26) That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

Thanks
RC



sunofone -> RE: Strong Meat? (7/11/2008 5:31:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32

I don't understand why some of the Gospel would be hidden from God's family (those who have been adopted by Him).

Don't the adopted children of God have all spiritual blessings? Doesn't scripture give us the complete word of God?

Ephesians 1
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

As Dave described it is there all along you just have to have eyes that see.Just like the gospel is hid from those who are lost.The bible is the most readily available book of all time,yet it's message remains hidden from those to whom it is has not been revealed.

Remember the Eunuch whom Phillip found reading a passage from Isaiah.He asked him if he understood what he was reading.His reply was how can I except some man guide me.

So in this case Philip opened up his understanding.There are many cases where even now as born again believers God enlightens us,opens up our understanding of passages we've read and probably overlooked or just didn't get the significance originally.

The word is as I said manna,in some cases hidden manna,as you can't simply pick up a bible read it and say I understand the bible now what's next.There are layers of truth to scripture that are not readily apparent although it was right there the whole time.

It is amazing to me how blissfully ignorant most people are in every regard.There is so much to be seen and know,that isn't hidden as if you have to purchase some secret text not available in the bible.It just has to be sought after and revealed.

This is meat,it is what goes beyond the simple foundational truths.

There are so many Americans that don't even realize that America and our founding Fathers were free Masons which were a secret society and our Country is rooted in the teachings and beliefs of these Masons,which were not Christians as you and I know Christians to be.

I realize that this may sound like some sort of terrible tangent,but it's not.There has always been a secret society when it comes to the people of God.There has always been an inner circle,an outer and inner court.

You're asking about the inner court,and that's what I'm trying to tell you about,and know it's not gnosticism.



RJR_fan -> RE: Strong Meat? (7/11/2008 5:37:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32

What is the meat of the gospel?


The Kingdom of God.



RJR_fan -> RE: Strong Meat? (7/11/2008 5:45:01 PM)

quote:

There are so many Americans that don't even realize that America and our founding Fathers were free Masons which were a secret society and our Country is rooted in the teachings and beliefs of these Masons,which were not Christians as you and I know Christians to be.


The Mayflower Compact was made "in the Name of God, Amen."

The Declaration of Independence invoked "the laws of Nature, and of Nature's God."

The Constitution, the lawyer's construct that formally secularized this continent and declared our national independence from God, was made in the name of another deity -- "We, the people." In practice, "we, the people" usually means "we professionals who exercise unrestricted power in the name of the people."

Since our constitution establishes a deliberately secular order, it declares that the City of Man can do without the City of God. The remnants of a Christian civil order have given place, step by step, to the designs of the Masons, who architected a "new world order."

Strong meat: applying God's Word to external realities, as well as to our own precious souls. To church, family, and civil order.



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