Let's Talk Economics Shall We

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freakofnature -> Let's Talk Economics Shall We (7/11/2008 11:11:21 AM)
Today, the dow is down already over 170 points and has lost around 25% this year alone. Rising food prices, rising oil/energy prices ($146.10/barrell currently) (Opps down down now 191 points) Spain announced today that they are in complete economic crash. Story on Spain here How long do we have before full on all out depression hits the U.S., any guesses?

freakofnature -> RE: Let's Talk Economics Shall We (7/11/2008 11:14:43 AM)
More details. HERE

kernsfamily -> RE: Let's Talk Economics Shall We (7/11/2008 12:09:06 PM)
depression? let's get to a 'moderate recession' first....and, then we'll go from there.... Regarding the stores that are closing locations at a "brisk pace" (as mentioned in the article)......many of those stores have been in financial trouble for YEARS....this "economic downturn" (which is cyclical....and always occurs after a cycle of economic growth, which we had over the past 5+ years), just pushed those who were struggling "over the edge"..... if you think our economic situation is horrible now....you weren't around in the late 1970s/early 1980s.....compared to that, what we are experiencing now is just a "blip" on the radar screen.

Leslie_JnJs_mom -> RE: Let's Talk Economics Shall We (7/11/2008 1:56:37 PM)
Yes gas and food is up and mortgage companies lent money to people they should not have. One thing the media is not focusing on is that we have not seen two quarters of negative growth. That signals a recession. Retail sales are doing pretty well actually. These are tough times and everyone is feeling the pinch but we are not on the verge of a crash. I think if we do not come together and figure a way out of this we will be though.

kernsfamily -> RE: Let's Talk Economics Shall We (7/11/2008 2:34:22 PM)
quote: These are tough times and everyone is feeling the pinch but we are not on the verge of a crash. BUT, there are some politicians (like one running for president) who have to carry on, and talk as if the economy is in shambles....we're in a DEPRESSION....everyone is miserable....joblessness is rampant.... and, why? to get us to vote for him...and his marxist economic policies....so, he can make 'everything better'.... sorry..i ain't drinking that kool-aid...the past 4 or so years have been prosperous for us...and many others that I know....sure, there may be some "struggling", but there are ALWAYS some "struggling"....(I was in the late 1990s...) i find it amazing that, while "they" talk and criticize about how "horrible" unemployment is, currently at 5.5% (4.6% average for 2007).....our previous administration got RE-ELECTED in 1996, in part, because of everyone applauding how 'WONDERFUL' the unvbelievably low unemployment numbers were....at, they were at 5.4ish.... wait a minute???? is 5.4/5.5 good or bad???? historically, that's still fairly low..... all depends on WHO is in office on whether that's a "low" number, or a "high" number, really......

matter -> RE: Let's Talk Economics Shall We (7/11/2008 3:58:10 PM)
quote: wait a minute???? is 5.4/5.5 good or bad???? historically, that's still fairly low..... all depends on WHO is in office on whether that's a "low" number, or a "high" number, really...... I can help you. Unemployments rates at 5.4% (1996)are good when they are down from 7.5% (1992), bad when they are 5.5% (2008) up from 4.0% (2000).

Leslie_JnJs_mom -> RE: Let's Talk Economics Shall We (7/11/2008 4:12:14 PM)
[sm=rollingeyes.gif] [sm=hammerhead.gif] quote: ORIGINAL: matter quote: wait a minute???? is 5.4/5.5 good or bad???? historically, that's still fairly low..... all depends on WHO is in office on whether that's a "low" number, or a "high" number, really...... I can help you. Unemployments rates at 5.4% (1996)are good when they are down from 7.5% (1992), bad when they are 5.5% (2008) up from 4.0% (2000).

GrahamCracker -> RE: Let's Talk Economics Shall We (7/11/2008 4:38:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kernsfamily quote: These are tough times and everyone is feeling the pinch but we are not on the verge of a crash. BUT, there are some politicians (like one running for president) who have to carry on, and talk as if the economy is in shambles....we're in a DEPRESSION....everyone is miserable....joblessness is rampant.... and, why? to get us to vote for him...and his marxist economic policies....so, he can make 'everything better'.... sorry..i ain't drinking that kool-aid...the past 4 or so years have been prosperous for us...and many others that I know....sure, there may be some "struggling", but there are ALWAYS some "struggling"....(I was in the late 1990s...) Anybody can find someone who will complain about how tough it is for them. And that is what they do. Certainly, some states, like Michigan are not doing well overall. You would find a higher than average unemployment (I don't have the figures) and project that doom and gloom attitude to the nation at large. Then, blame whoever happens to the most hated at the moment. No matter how bad it is, some economic philosophers are going to find some way to blame Bush. I'm not suffering either but I wasn't doing so well when I lived in Michigan.

GroupW -> RE: Let's Talk Economics Shall We (7/11/2008 5:00:29 PM)
Your avatar looks like you're not doing so well in TX either! BT

kernsfamily -> RE: Let's Talk Economics Shall We (7/11/2008 5:03:48 PM)
quote: Certainly, some states, like Michigan are not doing well overall. I am a "refugee" from Michigan, as well!....I've lived here in Texas for 12 years now. Great state. Great economy. We've prospered greatly here...sure, i've lost my job a few times in the past 12 years, but never had a hard time getting another (and better) one... No matter how you "spin it", Michigan's problems are MICHIGAN'S.....they are the ones who continually elect state politicians, and congressmen, who are so beholden to the "special interests" that run the state. And, until those "special interests/lobbyist" organizations are around....and control Michigan's economy....Michigan's economy is going to stay where it's at....and, it's been pretty bad for 20+ years...... IDEALLY, Michigan would send a team of people down here to Texas, and they would learn what it takes to create an economy that has a consistently great job market, an economy that attracts business (and doesn't repel them).... BUT, making the necessary changes would go against what the "powers that be" would like to have happen.....and, in the end, NOTHING happens....and Michigan's economy continues to wither away.

martyfran -> RE: Let's Talk Economics Shall We (7/11/2008 5:07:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kernsfamily IDEALLY, Michigan would send a team of people down here to Texas, and they would learn what it takes to create an economy that has a consistently great job market, an economy that attracts business (and doesn't repel them).... Texas has had its share of business cycles. It just so happens that things are going well in Texas right now. If oil prices fall to $10 per barrel and the Texas economy is still thriving, then I will be impressed.

kernsfamily -> RE: Let's Talk Economics Shall We (7/11/2008 5:26:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: martyfran quote: ORIGINAL: kernsfamily IDEALLY, Michigan would send a team of people down here to Texas, and they would learn what it takes to create an economy that has a consistently great job market, an economy that attracts business (and doesn't repel them).... Texas has had its share of business cycles. It just so happens that things are going well in Texas right now. If oil prices fall to $10 per barrel and the Texas economy is still thriving, then I will be impressed. well....we saw what happens when oil falls to $10 a barrel in 1997-1998.....the oil service companies were laying off people like crazy, because no one can drill when prices are that low. BUT, the economy, overall, still thrived (it was during the "tech/internet "bubble' of the late 1990s), because there's alot more to the state & local economy than oil these days.... What companies are Headquartered in DFW, where i live? Exxon-Mobil (around the corner from my house) JC Penney (Retail) Frito Lay (all those yummy chips & snacks) Kimberly Clark (consumer packaged paper goods) Burlington Northern (railroads) AMR-American Air (airline) Southwest Air (airline) Fluor (Design & Engineering/Construction) Texas Instruments (semiconductors) CoMerica (banking...just moved here from Detroit) Brinker Int'l (Chili's, Macaroni Grill, On the Border, and other restaurants) TGI Fridays/Carlson Restaurant Group And, the list goes ON and ON and ON... when one sector is "down"....others make up for it... oil is just one part of the HUGE economy here... regardless....there is a "good business environment" here that allows companies to THRIVE....and, when that happens, more companies are started....and other companies relocate here...and, the companies, and their employees, prosper greatly.... i don't see that happening in michigan in MY lifetime...

GroupW -> RE: Let's Talk Economics Shall We (7/11/2008 5:34:05 PM)
If I remember correctly, everything slowed down a bit and people were a bit concerned but in the end it was barely a hiccup. I lived in Houston right around then.

kernsfamily -> RE: Let's Talk Economics Shall We (7/11/2008 5:51:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GroupW If I remember correctly, everything slowed down a bit and people were a bit concerned but in the end it was barely a hiccup. I lived in Houston right around then. Houston does have a bit more of a "dependence" on the oil/gas/energy sector than Dallas does....(halliburton moved it's HQ from Dallas to Houston....so did FINA, i think)..... While there is a good bit of that here, as well....that is just one of the many parts of our local economy.....

rcjames -> RE: Let's Talk Economics Shall We (7/11/2008 6:44:36 PM)
Economy here in Oklahoma is great, of course gas prices are a little dab of a problem. Unemployment is below 3.5%, which is about as low as it can go. There are job opportunities everywhere. Rent and housing cost are reasonable and so is about everything else. There is enough activities here in the State to keep folks occupied and avoid the long road trips for vacations. The oil patch business is booming; every oil related industry (service companies, etc) are hiring anyone who can breath and carry 60lbs. My son in law manages an oil service company and every one there is putting in 80 to 105 hours a week because they cannot hire enough folks. Folks in areas where there are no jobs just need to stop complaining and move around to where there are jobs. Go West young man or at least to the SouthWest. Thanks RC

loloidong -> RE: Let's Talk Economics Shall We (7/11/2008 6:56:00 PM)
rcjames, Tell Clay-clay we want our Sups back!

martyfran -> RE: Let's Talk Economics Shall We (7/11/2008 7:14:35 PM)
Actually I was referring to the oil bust of the 1980's. The unemployment rate in texas in 1986 was 9.9%. Michigan is not quite there yet.

GrahamCracker -> RE: Let's Talk Economics Shall We (7/11/2008 7:35:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kernsfamily No matter how you "spin it", Michigan's problems are MICHIGAN'S.....they are the ones who continually elect state politicians, and congressmen, who are so beholden to the "special interests" that run the state. And, until those "special interests/lobbyist" organizations are around....and control Michigan's economy....Michigan's economy is going to stay where it's at....and, it's been pretty bad for 20+ years...... IDEALLY, Michigan would send a team of people down here to Texas, and they would learn what it takes to create an economy that has a consistently great job market, an economy that attracts business (and doesn't repel them).... I attribute a lot of Michigan's problems to a lack of entrepreneurial spirit. When some of the factories started having problems, some people's idea of a new job was to "open a bar." Imagine how productive that would be--like we didn't have enough drunks already. In Texas, if someone gets laid off or fired, they'll open a landscaping business or some sort of remodeling business and try to undercut the other guy---not caring about whether or not he was making "union wages." Maybe a consulting business of some kind. Something that actually makes a product or services something someone actually wants.

colliefan -> RE: Let's Talk Economics Shall We (7/11/2008 8:41:07 PM)
Let's harken back to the days of the peanut farmer; double digit unemployment, interest rates, and inflation. We were told to burn candles instead of using electricty and, as a result, we had a spate of homes to burn down. And we want Jimmy Carter II?

Leon_Figg3 -> RE: Let's Talk Economics Shall We (7/12/2008 12:14:23 AM)
Normally I do not get into discussions about the economy. Economic situations greater than those that affect my family's finances give me a head ach. Having said that I would also like to say that I tend not to be a gloom and doom believer other than to say that sooner or later the United States will face nightmarish times in which America will experince the unthinkable. America will experience hardship far greater than it has in almost 90 years (1920s and 1930s). I am beginning to think that those hardships are starting to happen. At the very least what is happening now is the precursor for what will happen. Our economy is falling apart. The safety nets put in place to prevent the economic collapse that we experienced in the 1920s and 1930s are being over taxed/ over burdened. Why is this happening? There are many reasons. We have an out of control media who fails to unbiaslly educate the public as to what is really going on and why. An out of control media that forces the general public to buy into and focus on issues that take our eyes off the real issues and accept philosophies and personalities that do very little but help us all feel: good about ourselves, victimized because of class envy or race, powerless control our lives, and deserving of receiving all kinds of rewards for doing next to nothing. We have an out of control political system in which political parties feel they have free reign to force candidates on us that we know very little about other than their general political point of view. An out of control political system in which only a certain political point of view is allowed to set the agenda and dictate to the public what the problems and answers that face this country are and who/ what is to blame. We have an out of control legislature that does nothing but put band aids on issues-especially economic issues- because the members of that branch of our government are affraid to deal with the issues. They are affraid to be statesmen and take a clear stand. They are more concerned with telling Americans what they want to hear, instead of what they need to hear. The band aids are not working. The safety nets are frayed and there is no way of repairing or replacing them because there is not enough money in the world to solve the problems that they and we have created through class envy, and a do nothing/ everything is fine attitude. We have people in key positions that are charged with the responsible addressing problems this country faces not because of their expertise, knowledge, and ability to solve problems economically but because of their political connections, contributions, and political ideologies and agendas. Sorry if I have wandered off topic.

rcjames -> RE: Let's Talk Economics Shall We (7/12/2008 9:14:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: loloidong rcjames, Tell Clay-clay we want our Sups back! Sorry, but they are ours now. I am already on the list for season tickets.[;)] Thanks RC

rcjames -> RE: Let's Talk Economics Shall We (7/12/2008 9:24:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker quote: ORIGINAL: kernsfamily No matter how you "spin it", Michigan's problems are MICHIGAN'S.....they are the ones who continually elect state politicians, and congressmen, who are so beholden to the "special interests" that run the state. And, until those "special interests/lobbyist" organizations are around....and control Michigan's economy....Michigan's economy is going to stay where it's at....and, it's been pretty bad for 20+ years...... IDEALLY, Michigan would send a team of people down here to Texas, and they would learn what it takes to create an economy that has a consistently great job market, an economy that attracts business (and doesn't repel them).... I attribute a lot of Michigan's problems to a lack of entrepreneurial spirit. When some of the factories started having problems, some people's idea of a new job was to "open a bar." Imagine how productive that would be--like we didn't have enough drunks already. In Texas, if someone gets laid off or fired, they'll open a landscaping business or some sort of remodeling business and try to undercut the other guy---not caring about whether or not he was making "union wages." Maybe a consulting business of some kind. Something that actually makes a product or services something someone actually wants. Larry, You speak a lot of truth here. I was from Texas until 6 years ago, and changing professions, carrying two jobs to support one's family, etc. is the norm. Really not a lot of this "Whining" about the past; just making do for the present and future. A lot of "Union" folks from the North could learn a lot from the Texas entrepreneurial spirit. I think it is best defined as "You can either sit on your butt, feel sorry for yourself, and be in misery; or you can take life head on and take care of the family". And I find that same survival spirit here in Oklahoma, but that should not be surprising since you Texans think Oklahoma is a suburb of Dallas or something.[8D] Thsnks RC

rlj -> RE: Let's Talk Economics Shall We (7/12/2008 12:11:31 PM)
quote: Anybody can find someone who will complain about how tough it is for them. And that is what they do. Certainly, some states, like Michigan are not doing well overall. You would find a higher than average unemployment (I don't have the figures) and project that doom and gloom attitude to the nation at large. Then, blame whoever happens to the most hated at the moment. No matter how bad it is, some economic philosophers are going to find some way to blame Bush. I'm not suffering either but I wasn't doing so well when I lived in Michigan. Ohio is doing just as lousy. Too many people are looking at the unemployment rates. That isn't the problem. The problem is all of the jobs lost here in the last 10 years that have been replaced with jobs that make half or less money or the fact that benefits such as medical are offered less often and are more expensive. I don't understand how anyone can look at cost of gas and the cost of food and say it's good. It isn't and that is the problem. People aren't losing their houses here because of predatory lending or because all of those college educated lenders have been hoodwinked by a bunch of uneducated morons. They are losing them because they had better jobs 10 years ago and now they have lousy jobs. The cost of the two most important things have skyrocketed- energy (oil, natural gas, electricity since power companies have been switching to gas instead of coal in some places, heating oil) and food. The cost of medical is skyrocketing and people in my area are losing their coverage left and right then they are losing they're houses over the bills that mount up because they can't afford it. There are many who are doing fine here because there always are those who can do fine, those who can't and those who won't. quote: The oil patch business is booming; every oil related industry (service companies, etc) are hiring anyone who can breath and carry 60lbs. My son in law manages an oil service company and every one there is putting in 80 to 105 hours a week because they cannot hire enough folks. Folks in areas where there are no jobs just need to stop complaining and move around to where there are jobs. Go West young man or at least to the SouthWest. Very wise RC but you should tell those oil companies that if they are going to start you on decent wages to come up this way and let us know. We made our living here until about 3 decades ago in the hot rubber factories I'm sure we can adjust to the rigors of the oil industry if people knew it was there.

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