The Great Story

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essentialsaltes -> The Great Story (7/11/2008 5:45:51 PM)
Is anyone familiar with this movement? Here's the wikipage. And greatstory.org. "The Great Story, or "Epic of Evolution" refer to mythopoetic language used by a social movement (or meta-religious movement) that tells the history of the Universe in ways that are simultaneously scientific and sacred. It is an articulation of the understandings of modern science – especially the evolutionary sciences ranging from stellar evolution to biological evolution and cultural evolution – as a sacred creation myth, much like the traditional creation myths passed down through oral cultures and sacred texts." One of the promoters of this idea is Michael Dowd, an evangelical who has written a book, Thank God for Evolution. "Throughout Thank God for Evolution, I take many of the core doctrines central to Christianity—sin, salvation, the kingdom of God, heaven and hell, Jesus as God's way, truth, and life, —and show how each of these can be understood in a REALized—that is, an undeniably this-world realistic—way. Ironically, evolution gives us a more intimate and personal relationship with God because God is no longer far off, unnatural, and impotent." It seems like a very unusual project, but it is yet another demonstration that some Christians have no difficulty reconciling their faith with science.

Jhud -> RE: The Great Story (7/11/2008 6:07:07 PM)
quote: It seems like a very unusual project, but it is yet another demonstration that some Christians have no difficulty reconciling their faith with science. I am not sure what this demonstrates as there are people calling themselves Christians who 'reconcile' their faith with anything.

Embedded -> RE: The Great Story (7/19/2008 1:51:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jhud quote: It seems like a very unusual project, but it is yet another demonstration that some Christians have no difficulty reconciling their faith with science. I am not sure what this demonstrates as there are people calling themselves Christians who 'reconcile' their faith with anything. Surely no true Christian would reconcile their faith with just anything. Who are you to determine what and how other Christians reconcile their faith?

gluadys -> RE: The Great Story (7/19/2008 2:19:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: essentialsaltes Is anyone familiar with this movement? Here's the wikipage. And greatstory.org. "The Great Story, or "Epic of Evolution" refer to mythopoetic language used by a social movement (or meta-religious movement) that tells the history of the Universe in ways that are simultaneously scientific and sacred. It is an articulation of the understandings of modern science – especially the evolutionary sciences ranging from stellar evolution to biological evolution and cultural evolution – as a sacred creation myth, much like the traditional creation myths passed down through oral cultures and sacred texts." One of the promoters of this idea is Michael Dowd, an evangelical who has written a book, Thank God for Evolution. "Throughout Thank God for Evolution, I take many of the core doctrines central to Christianity—sin, salvation, the kingdom of God, heaven and hell, Jesus as God's way, truth, and life, —and show how each of these can be understood in a REALized—that is, an undeniably this-world realistic—way. Ironically, evolution gives us a more intimate and personal relationship with God because God is no longer far off, unnatural, and impotent." It seems like a very unusual project, but it is yet another demonstration that some Christians have no difficulty reconciling their faith with science. I will have to check him out more. I know that more traditional theistic evolutionists are not too sure what to make of him. It is one thing for an person of Dowd's evangelical background to conclude that evolution is true. But most TEs are not comfortable with treating evolution as a belief. Dowd seems to provide ammunition to the anti-evolutionists who represent evolution as a religious faith.

drj11 -> RE: The Great Story (7/19/2008 5:55:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jhud quote: It seems like a very unusual project, but it is yet another demonstration that some Christians have no difficulty reconciling their faith with science. I am not sure what this demonstrates as there are people calling themselves Christians who 'reconcile' their faith with anything. Yea, this forum is filled with people who actually "reconcile" their faith with a literal interpretation of genesis... meaning god is deceitful, yet somehow still all good and truthful. Still not sure how that works.

evry1needsgod -> RE: The Great Story (7/19/2008 6:59:03 PM)
quote: Yea, this forum is filled with people who actually "reconcile" their faith with a literal interpretation of genesis... meaning god is deceitful, yet somehow still all good and truthful. Still not sure how that works. He would be decietful if He did not tell you how it all happened. But, as many of us have already stated, and time after time you plug your ears and hide in a corner, God clearly told us how we came about it the Bible. YOU just simply choose not to accept it. I mean seriously, how honest do you expect God to be? He clearly told you what you needed to know, and He couldn't have done a better job. IF God truly did create the universe in 6 days, it would indeed require a miracle. Miracles can not be proven scientifically, which is why He TOLD YOU in Genesis 1! What else do you expect? But, you're blinded by your bias, and by this bias you call God a liar. I'll pray for you drj11.

evry1needsgod -> RE: The Great Story (7/19/2008 7:00:52 PM)
quote: Yea, this forum is filled with people who actually "reconcile" their faith with a literal interpretation of genesis This forum is also filled with Atheists who reconcile their faith with evolution. Let truth be told!

drj11 -> RE: The Great Story (7/19/2008 8:12:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod He would be decietful if He did not tell you how it all happened. He did. It is evident in creation itself. How can you choose to ignore it while proping yourself up as infallible when it comes to interpreting his word?

evry1needsgod -> RE: The Great Story (7/19/2008 8:23:43 PM)
quote: He did. It is evident in creation itself. No, it is evident in WHAT HE SPOKE! If I speak something to you, do you not listen? Well, perhaps I asked that to the wrong person... quote: How can you choose to ignore it while proping yourself up as infallible when it comes to interpreting his word? I did not call myself infallible. That's a label you used, not me. However, I if you call listening to the WORDS GOD SPOKE "propping yourself up as infallible," then fine, guilty as charged. Thanks for the compliment. I do appreciate being known as a listener to what God has to speak in His Words. He doesn't speak in codes buddy. But, you are looking for codes, and will not find them. Good luck.

gluadys -> RE: The Great Story (7/19/2008 8:37:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod quote: He did. It is evident in creation itself. No, it is evident in WHAT HE SPOKE! According to the scriptures God SPOKE creation into existence. But God did NOT speak the scriptures. Instead holy men of God were moved by his Spirit to do the speaking/writing of scripture. So if you are going to rely on what God SPOKE, the one thing God directly SPOKE was creation.

evry1needsgod -> RE: The Great Story (7/19/2008 9:36:54 PM)
quote: According to the scriptures God SPOKE creation into existence. But God did NOT speak the scriptures. Instead holy men of God were moved by his Spirit to do the speaking/writing of scripture. So if you are going to rely on what God SPOKE, the one thing God directly SPOKE was creation. It's funny you say this, because "spoke" is a one time act. God did not "speak" for millions and millions of years as evolution took its route. Praise God, one more YEC for His glory! Plus, the inspiration of the Holy Spirit ( God ) is indeed speaking, so yes, the Bible is God's chosen words. He simply used man to write them down.

drj11 -> RE: The Great Story (7/19/2008 10:56:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod quote: According to the scriptures God SPOKE creation into existence. But God did NOT speak the scriptures. Instead holy men of God were moved by his Spirit to do the speaking/writing of scripture. So if you are going to rely on what God SPOKE, the one thing God directly SPOKE was creation. It's funny you say this, because "spoke" is a one time act. God did not "speak" for millions and millions of years as evolution took its route. Praise God, one more YEC for His glory! Plus, the inspiration of the Holy Spirit ( God ) is indeed speaking, so yes, the Bible is God's chosen words. He simply used man to write them down. You still conflate your cartoon-esque vision of god with the actual words in genesis. God "spoke"... so your saying it isnt possible for him to have spoken the big bang, set the universe in motion, evolution and all? So you arent just infallible in your interpretation of his word, but you now have authority over what is and is not possible through God?

unclemonkey -> RE: The Great Story (7/19/2008 10:58:12 PM)
ORIGINAL:gluadys quote: So if you are going to rely on what God SPOKE, the one thing God directly SPOKE was creation. Let’s not forget that God spoke a curse on creation. What we observe today is an abortion of the creation God spoke into existence. When you so glibly put aside God’s written word you open the door to heresy. Drj11 is right on one point. What the Bible tells us of creation is in diametric opposition to the theology of millions of years and evolution. “And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.” – Joshua 24:15

drj11 -> RE: The Great Story (7/19/2008 11:01:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: unclemonkey Drj11 is right on one point. What the Bible tells us of creation is in diametric opposition to the theology of millions of years and evolution. I love how you sneak those little words in like 'theology'... Still lying are we?

gluadys -> RE: The Great Story (7/19/2008 11:14:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod quote: According to the scriptures God SPOKE creation into existence. But God did NOT speak the scriptures. Instead holy men of God were moved by his Spirit to do the speaking/writing of scripture. So if you are going to rely on what God SPOKE, the one thing God directly SPOKE was creation. It's funny you say this, because "spoke" is a one time act. Since when? God can't speak twice or 10 times or a million times or once every nanosecond? quote: Plus, the inspiration of the Holy Spirit ( God ) is indeed speaking, so yes, the Bible is God's chosen words. He simply used man to write them down. Nope. That's Islamic theology. Except they substitute the Angel Gabriel for the Holy Spirit. If you want a book that is the actual spoken word of God dictated to a human, you are looking for the Qu'ran, not the Bible. Christian theology considers the biblical writers to be authors, not secretaries.

evry1needsgod -> RE: The Great Story (7/19/2008 11:18:56 PM)
quote: so your saying it isnt possible for him to have spoken the big bang, set the universe in motion, evolution and all? So you arent just infallible in your interpretation of his word, but you now have authority over what is and is not possible through God? Where did I say any of this? Is it possible? Sure! But that's not what He told us in Genesis.

evry1needsgod -> RE: The Great Story (7/19/2008 11:23:19 PM)
quote: Christian theology considers the biblical writers to be authors, not secretaries. Wrong. The Biblical writers are the physical authors of God's intangible words - aka inspiration. Edit: Changed wording of original.

evry1needsgod -> RE: The Great Story (7/19/2008 11:30:24 PM)
quote: I love how you sneak those little words in like 'theology'... Still lying are we? Nope, no lie there drj11. One who believes in evolution and millions of years must form their own theology through whatever interpretation they choose, because a belief in millions of years and evolution is in direct contradiction to the spoken Words of God. If I say "yesterday, my dog died" what do you think? You think that 24 hours ago, the life of my pet ended. You do not sit and ponder for centuries, coming up with "well, what he really meant is that a million or so years ago, his spirit was reincarnated." That's ridiculous. So yes, a belief in millions of years and evolution requires a completely different theology that that which was recorded in Scriptures. That's simple fact.

evry1needsgod -> RE: The Great Story (7/19/2008 11:36:19 PM)
quote: Since when? God can't speak twice or 10 times or a million times or once every nanosecond? He most certainly can, but then He would be "speaking." But, as Genesis records, God "said" which denotes a one time act. If I "said" something, I was not "saying" it for millinos of years. I simply "said" it. God "said (spoke)" "Let there be light"....and there was light! No millions of years there. God was not "saying" for millions of years "Let there be light," He just "said" it - a one time act.

gluadys -> RE: The Great Story (7/20/2008 12:46:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod quote: Since when? God can't speak twice or 10 times or a million times or once every nanosecond? He most certainly can, but then He would be "speaking." But, as Genesis records, God "said" which denotes a one time act. If I "said" something, I was not "saying" it for millinos of years. I simply "said" it. God "said (spoke)" "Let there be light"....and there was light! No millions of years there. God was not "saying" for millions of years "Let there be light," He just "said" it - a one time act. No, "speaking" is continuous. "Spoke" is a complete act. And it is still a complete act if he spoke a hundred times. I was not implying that every speech was the same. Only that each complete act was complete, however many there were. The more important point is that creation was spoken into existence. It came about because God spoke. So when we learn from creation we are learning what God spoke.

gluadys -> RE: The Great Story (7/20/2008 12:51:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod quote: Christian theology considers the biblical writers to be authors, not secretaries. Wrong. The Biblical writers are the physical authors of God's intangible words - aka inspiration. Edit: Changed wording of original. Better study some more on inspiration then. This is not a widely accepted Christian view. Christian theology has generally had more respect for the human authors of scripture and seen them as something more than simple scribes taking dictation. It is also not a biblical view that the words of scripture are God's words. The bible nowhere makes that claim. Even when the prophets declare God's Word to the people, they say "The Word of the Lord came to me..." not "words". There is a significant difference between the Word of God and the text of scripture.

ianz -> RE: The Great Story (7/20/2008 10:20:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod quote: I love how you sneak those little words in like 'theology'... Still lying are we? Nope, no lie there drj11. One who believes in evolution and millions of years must form their own theology through whatever interpretation they choose, because a belief in millions of years and evolution is in direct contradiction to the spoken Words of God. If I say "yesterday, my dog died" what do you think? You think that 24 hours ago, the life of my pet ended. You do not sit and ponder for centuries, coming up with "well, what he really meant is that a million or so years ago, his spirit was reincarnated." That's ridiculous. "Yesterday, all my troubles seemed so far away..." Do you think Paul was speaking of yesterday metaphorically or literally? Regards, Ian (with tongue slightly in cheek) PS It was your "Yesterday, my god died" that made me think of it. So blame it on your dog.

abraxas -> RE: The Great Story (7/20/2008 12:36:09 PM)
quote: "Yesterday, my god died" What a typo! [:D]

evry1needsgod -> RE: The Great Story (7/20/2008 1:06:37 PM)
quote: The more important point is that creation was spoken into existence. It came about because God spoke. So when we learn from creation we are learning what God spoke. There's a lot of humor to be understood here. You accept part of what Genesis tells you, but not the other. You accept the fact that God s[poke, but don't accept what He spoke. Why must you believe half a verse? The Bible tells us "And God said," which you say you believe, but you do not accept "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:...And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;" Either believe the conclusion of the whole matter, or don't believe it at all.

evry1needsgod -> RE: The Great Story (7/20/2008 1:16:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ianz quote: ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod quote: I love how you sneak those little words in like 'theology'... Still lying are we? Nope, no lie there drj11. One who believes in evolution and millions of years must form their own theology through whatever interpretation they choose, because a belief in millions of years and evolution is in direct contradiction to the spoken Words of God. If I say "yesterday, my dog died" what do you think? You think that 24 hours ago, the life of my pet ended. You do not sit and ponder for centuries, coming up with "well, what he really meant is that a million or so years ago, his spirit was reincarnated." That's ridiculous. "Yesterday, all my troubles seemed so far away..." Do you think Paul was speaking of yesterday metaphorically or literally? Regards, Ian (with tongue slightly in cheek) PS It was your "Yesterday, my god died" that made me think of it. So blame it on your dog. You can not compare two of the most despicable human beings to the Holy, Perfect Words of God. If you choose to create your theology by what Paul McCartney and John Lennon have to say, that is a choice you will have to take up with God. God did not inspire His Words to confuse mankind.

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