Evil is the absence of empathy.

Evil is the absence of empathy. (Full Version)

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mvic -> Evil is the absence of empathy. (7/13/2008 10:36:33 AM)
Evil is the absence of empathy. When we cannot imagine how someone else feels in a particular situation we loose a little of our humanity; and slowly erode another layer of that veneer we call civilization. I see lack of empathy around me everywhere: The politician who doesn’t really care; The church leader who’s abandoned his flock; The doctor who’s too busy to listen; The young who neglect and mock the old; Or even the parents who forgot what it’s like to be a child. If there’s one quality Christ had in abundance it is empathy. He took pity on those around Him many times and went out of His way to help them. Am I alone in thinking this way? What can be done? Is it too late?

Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Evil is the absence of empathy. (7/13/2008 11:08:41 AM)
I am personally interested in everything people may write in this thread, because I have had personal issues with empathy. I was reared to completely lack empathy, and when I was old enough to realize it, it was my prayer and search that I would learn empathy. I have a hard time believing that anyone who is personally "normal" would not be born with a sense of empathy. I felt great loss when I remembered that I had had empathy as a child but that it had been forcibly sucked out of me by my upbringing. I believe that G-d has been faithful in returning to me "what the canker worm had eaten." Regardless, when do we ever learn and understand enough? I know there are areas in my life that are deficit of this quality.

LivingParadox -> RE: Evil is the absence of empathy. (7/13/2008 11:23:48 AM)
Nope. You are not wrong that our culture is losing out empathy for others as human beings --it's much easier to perputrate evil against another is you distance yourself, when you lose empathy others that you can and do cause true harm. And when called on the harm you blame them for causing you to harm them. With a generation coming up thinking it's ok to destroy the unborn, video games where the goal is to kill as many other humans as possible and no telling what other unspeakable violence. Dehumanization through the internet whether sexual explortation (porn), cyber-bullying, lots of low punches. If you can stereotype people into groups and seperate them from how they disagee instead all they have in common -- Is it any wonder that we are losing our empathy. I'm sure Satan is loving it. When you leave the USofA to go to other non-Christian countries where the value of life is minimal, children are discarded because they aren't the right gender, genocide, ethnic cleasing, used as suicide bombers, -- when we eliminate our Christian trait of seeing others through the eyes of Jesus we become evil. When we lose our standards, our voice to speak for those who have no voice, when we value power, reputation, wealth more than another human being -- we become evil. None of us get it perfect but it does beg the question, Are we our Brother's keeper?

PrexicKehdaki -> RE: Evil is the absence of empathy. (7/13/2008 2:43:07 PM)
I somewhat agree with the OP, but it's worth noting that people can be both empathetic and evil at the same time. Consider a delusional woman that feels her children are possessed by the devil. She may think she's abusing them for their own good, to get the devil out, but she's also a source of evil. A lot of people in history with intense moral convictions have done evil through what they felt was empathy.

deliveredarling -> RE: Evil is the absence of empathy. (7/13/2008 2:59:05 PM)
There is a huge difference in empathy and sympathy. confusing the two sure does make it look as though evil is rampant in this area. Empathy is an understanding without the need to fix the problem. Victims feel like nobody understands-now let's translate that to "Nobody will fix my problem for me, because if they understood, they would do something about it". Sympathy at it's finest. Sympathy in this context being defined as the poor me syndrome, not the sympathy associated with death.

PrexicKehdaki -> RE: Evil is the absence of empathy. (7/13/2008 3:00:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: deliveredarling There is a huge difference in empathy and sympathy. confusing the two sure does make it look as though evil is rampant in this area. Empathy is an understanding without the need to fix the problem. Victims feel like nobody understands-now let's translate that to "Nobody will fix my problem for me, because if they understood, they would do something about it". Sympathy at it's finest. Sympathy in this context being defined as the poor me syndrome, not the sympathy associated with death. I don't think the OP is talking about empathy or sympathy for oneself.

bob97 -> RE: Evil is the absence of empathy. (7/13/2008 3:12:50 PM)
Evil is the absence of love. Christ gave us a law in 1Co 9:15 and that law Paul says is to LOVE God and your neighbor. If you love you fulfill all of the commandments Paul goes on to say. So if you do not love as required you don't obey Christ and as such are living in sin. Bob

Focusing -> RE: Evil is the absence of empathy. (7/13/2008 3:29:42 PM)
quote: When we cannot imagine how someone else feels in a particular situation we loose a little of our humanity If I cannot imagine how a drug addict feels ... If I cannot imagine how a person feels to lose a child to a horrible disease ... If I cannot imagine how a woman feels who has lost her husband ... ... have I lost a little of my humanity???? No, I don't agree with this.

SavedByGraceMD -> RE: Evil is the absence of empathy. (7/13/2008 3:50:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Focusing quote: When we cannot imagine how someone else feels in a particular situation we loose a little of our humanity If I cannot imagine how a drug addict feels ... If I cannot imagine how a person feels to lose a child to a horrible disease ... If I cannot imagine how a woman feels who has lost her husband ... ... have I lost a little of my humanity???? No, I don't agree with this. I agree with focusing. Though I will add that judging someone in one of these instances, while never taking the time to understand what they are going through, that is wrong and may show a lack of empathy. "Empathy is the capacity to recognize or understand another's state of mind or emotion. It is often characterized as the ability to "put oneself into another's shoes", or to in some way experience the outlook or emotions of another being within oneself. It may be described metaphorically as an emotional kind of resonance or mirroring."(wikipedia) Does that make someone evil, no not necessarily. Also we should not be judging someone who is going through something we never have. Do we lose a little of our humanity when we show no empathy, I think this depends on how we react to the person in question. Do we turn our backs in judgment, or do we reach out a hand even though we have no idea what they are going through. I don't think we have to understand, we just have to try and help out, and by doing so, show them the love of Christ.

LivingParadox -> RE: Evil is the absence of empathy. (7/13/2008 4:38:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PrexicKehdaki I somewhat agree with the OP, but it's worth noting that people can be both empathetic and evil at the same time. Consider a delusional woman that feels her children are possessed by the devil. She may think she's abusing them for their own good, to get the devil out, but she's also a source of evil. A lot of people in history with intense moral convictions have done evil through what they felt was empathy. I'm not sure your example of someone mentally ill is a good example of "empathy", as anyone who has known someone mentally sick enough to harm their children or simply take the time to understand the disease --you'd realize that is medical condition not a conviction. "Light heartly" -- you are not showing much empathy towards the mentally ill. [;)] As for history, much more intense evil has been perputraded by the irreligious than those with moral convictions. That's not saying Christians haven't been the source for evil at times but put in perscpective they have been more a restraining force of evil, and often been the agents of change through the application of moral convictions.

deliveredarling -> RE: Evil is the absence of empathy. (7/13/2008 4:41:00 PM)
quote: Evil is the absence of empathy. I do not agree with this. I think the op is combining many sub issues into an attempt at a single issue. The absence of empathy can't be all evil. If that is the case then we all are evil to the bone. i can't empathize with many circumstances because I have not experienced them. As Focusing stated several examples. That doesn't make me evil, it makes me unexperienced in that area. A lack of education can certainly make someone appear to be hard hearted. Then again an educated person can seem hard hearted too because they have been down that road and know that pitfalls.... May I ask what happened that sparked this topic?

LivingParadox -> RE: Evil is the absence of empathy. (7/13/2008 4:50:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: deliveredarling There is a huge difference in empathy and sympathy. confusing the two sure does make it look as though evil is rampant in this area. Empathy is an understanding without the need to fix the problem. Victims feel like nobody understands-now let's translate that to "Nobody will fix my problem for me, because if they understood, they would do something about it". Sympathy at it's finest. Sympathy in this context being defined as the poor me syndrome, not the sympathy associated with death. I don't think we are talking about the "poor me" syndrome in this thread. --maybe "it's none of my business and it will inconvenience me" syndrome. It's basically about transgressions ...you know, those sins of omission. When we fail to do what's right, in other words, SIN -- it is evil. Until, we as Christians get this idea, not just the "don't do this and don't do that" rules...

deliveredarling -> RE: Evil is the absence of empathy. (7/13/2008 5:06:10 PM)
quote: I don't think we are talking about the "poor me" syndrome in this thread. I see in the following statements, expressions, of a self involved thought process. I do see an all about me kind of thinking going on here. We all have these same kind of thoughts when we are self absorbed- and wounded. quote: I see lack of empathy around me everywhere: The politician who doesn’t really care; The church leader who’s abandoned his flock; The doctor who’s too busy to listen; The young who neglect and mock the old; Or even the parents who forgot what it’s like to be a child. A focus on me, results in thoughts like these, most often because the pendulum didn't swing in the manner we wanted it too. "Didn't you know the world's problems arise because it didn't do or see things your way?"

mvic -> RE: Evil is the absence of empathy. (7/13/2008 5:10:32 PM)
It seems that I am an expert at being mis-understood. I apologise for that. Let me explain what I mean by evil. Specifically, check the examples in my Opening Post. It is evil, wrong and a sin against God and mankind to pretend to care when deep inside you do not. I'm sure you can all recall examples like the one's in the OP, and perhaps more besides. Bob97 put it better than me: Evil is the absence of love. Focusing: I think you took my word "imagine" too literally. What I meant is that if you cannot "feel" deep within you what it must be like to be a drug addict, or to lose a child, or a husband; if you cannot possibly share the pain within yourself in these and other similar circumstances; then yes: we have lost some of our humanity. I have known too many people that to them the suffering of others is just a fact of life. Maybe it's because we've become too hardened when we see everyday on the news stories of sufferings, droughts, famines, illness, wars etc ... How often when we see these images on TV do we put ourselves in these peoples position and empathise with them? The modern society has caused empathy fatigue in all of us. That is wrong, it is a sin, it is evil. It is lack of love for one's neighbour. The two first travellers in the story of the Good Samaritan portrayed this lack of empathy. They did not need to have experienced a beating by muggers to empathise with the man on the ground.

LivingParadox -> RE: Evil is the absence of empathy. (7/13/2008 5:13:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: deliveredarling quote: I don't think we are talking about the "poor me" syndrome in this thread. I see in the following statements, expressions, of a self involved thought process. I do see an all about me kind of thinking going on here. We all have these same kind of thoughts when we are self absorbed- and wounded. quote: I see lack of empathy around me everywhere: The politician who doesn’t really care; The church leader who’s abandoned his flock; The doctor who’s too busy to listen; The young who neglect and mock the old; Or even the parents who forgot what it’s like to be a child. A focus on me, results in thoughts like these, most often because the pendulum didn't swing in the manner we wanted it too. "Didn't you know the world's problems arise because it didn't do or see things your way?" Actually I see those scenarios as self interest, not the "poor me" is more about whining, regarding real or perceived wrongs. That subject could be a thread unto itself if you want to create it. I think this thread is talking more about the callouness our culture is developing towards others. As for which way something goes in this world has nothing to do with if it's right or wrong.

deliveredarling -> RE: Evil is the absence of empathy. (7/13/2008 5:21:34 PM)
Is it empathy fatigue or life? I have been through more things in this life than a person should ever have to go through. My life perspective is, that which doesn't kill you, only makes you stronger. I don't believ that the "bad" things that happen in this life are all bad. I think we can misinterpret God's meaning of circumstances. We have a tendency to focus on the negative rather than shouting the glory to God for all the gifts He has given us. For all the victories He has already provided. Maybe I am still misunderstanding the OP, but the remarks back are the ones impressed upon my heart.[;)]

LivingParadox -> RE: Evil is the absence of empathy. (7/13/2008 5:30:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: deliveredarling Is it empathy fatigue or life? I have been through more things in this life than a person should ever have to go through. My life perspective is, that which doesn't kill you, only makes you stronger. I don't believ that the "bad" things that happen in this life are all bad. I think we can misinterpret God's meaning of circumstances. We have a tendency to focus on the negative rather than shouting the glory to God for all the gifts He has given us. For all the victories He has already provided. Maybe I am still misunderstanding the OP, but the remarks back are the ones impressed upon my heart.[;)] Shakes your hand for being a overcomer. I'm sure we could trade stories (as many people on this board). I am far from a whiner and cringe when I see people do that kind of behavior because it limits them. "The only way people can make you feel inferior is if you let them." You should never allow challenges to define you -- but you must speak up for things that matter. And yes, as I see our culture trying to be more secular, irrelegious, universal (whatever you want to call it) --it's kind of given a "pass" in actually caring about their neighbor. And that I do contend is evil.

Liveloved -> RE: Evil is the absence of empathy. (7/13/2008 6:19:17 PM)
quote: Evil is the absence of empathy. When we cannot imagine how someone else feels in a particular situation we loose a little of our humanity; and slowly erode another layer of that veneer we call civilization. How can we lose what we did not have? Aren't you assuming we started out with something? The gospel message is that we do NOT love---one demonstration of love is empathy. So I would say we do not show empathy because we do not love. And we do not love because we do not know Christ. And knowing is a progressive thing so as we know Him more and more, our love and empathy for others should be growing as well. The selfish person does not see or care about the needs of others. We are only freed from the selfish person we are through Christ. It is a good question to ask ourselves to see if we truly belong to Christ and are growing in His likeness: Do I see the needs of others? Do I care about the needs of others? Do I act in ways to meet the needs of those the Lord puts in my path? Great topic to ponder and discuss!

PrexicKehdaki -> RE: Evil is the absence of empathy. (7/13/2008 7:46:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LivingParadox quote: ORIGINAL: PrexicKehdaki I somewhat agree with the OP, but it's worth noting that people can be both empathetic and evil at the same time. Consider a delusional woman that feels her children are possessed by the devil. She may think she's abusing them for their own good, to get the devil out, but she's also a source of evil. A lot of people in history with intense moral convictions have done evil through what they felt was empathy. I'm not sure your example of someone mentally ill is a good example of "empathy", as anyone who has known someone mentally sick enough to harm their children or simply take the time to understand the disease --you'd realize that is medical condition not a conviction. "Light heartly" -- you are not showing much empathy towards the mentally ill. [;)] It is very much empathy carried out by a delusion. They do believe they are helping or saving their children, in these special occasions. quote: ORIGINAL: PrexicKehdaki As for history, much more intense evil has been perputraded by the irreligious than those with moral convictions. That's not saying Christians haven't been the source for evil at times but put in perscpective they have been more a restraining force of evil, and often been the agents of change through the application of moral convictions. I never once brought up a Christian vs Secularists argument. You don't have to be Christian to have a moral conviction. And a moral conviction does not have to be a morality you agree with.

Focusing -> RE: Evil is the absence of empathy. (7/13/2008 8:37:43 PM)
Yes, I think you have been misunderstood. My apologies. I think I have an idea what you mean though ... people are insensitive, they have been desensitized to the world around them. IMO, it all starts with the cartoons (yep, innocent as they may seem), and continues on with music, movies, news, magazine articles. We become so accustomed to violence and revenge in the world that we simply overlook what's going on. We definitely need to use discernment as to our own realities ... is the person holding the "homeless" sign really homeless, or are they just too lazy to work, opting for handouts from others who have big hearts. Living in a big city, this is something I'm faced with pretty much on a daily basis. Those I see on a regular basis and can determine their situations fairly easily (seeing them 4 or 5 days a week, gradually appearing dirtier for lack of shower, no fresh clothing to put on, getting thinner for lack of food), versus the guy on the freeway offramp holding the "homeless" sign who always looks clean and freshly shaved, wearing clean current style clothing - I'm not going to bother giving him anything because, to me, he is a fake, lazy, willing to manipulate and take advantage of others. In the first instance, although I cannot empathize - having never been in those shoes - I can observe her situation and her need. In the second instance, I still cannot empathize, I can observe his situation and that he does not appear to be in need.

LivingParadox -> RE: Evil is the absence of empathy. (7/13/2008 9:00:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PrexicKehdaki quote: ORIGINAL: LivingParadox quote: ORIGINAL: PrexicKehdaki I somewhat agree with the OP, but it's worth noting that people can be both empathetic and evil at the same time. Consider a delusional woman that feels her children are possessed by the devil. She may think she's abusing them for their own good, to get the devil out, but she's also a source of evil. A lot of people in history with intense moral convictions have done evil through what they felt was empathy. I'm not sure your example of someone mentally ill is a good example of "empathy", as anyone who has known someone mentally sick enough to harm their children or simply take the time to understand the disease --you'd realize that is medical condition not a conviction. "Light heartly" -- you are not showing much empathy towards the mentally ill. [;)] It is very much empathy carried out by a delusion. They do believe they are helping or saving their children, in these special occasions. So as a special occasion this is really an exception not really a good example of most normal functioning people who just don't show empathy. quote: ORIGINAL: PrexicKehdaki As for history, much more intense evil has been perputraded by the irreligious than those with moral convictions. That's not saying Christians haven't been the source for evil at times but put in perscpective they have been more a restraining force of evil, and often been the agents of change through the application of moral convictions. quote: I never once brought up a Christian vs Secularists argument. You don't have to be Christian to have a moral conviction. And a moral conviction does not have to be a morality you agree with. I suppose lack of empathy is a equal opportunity for all people.

LivingParadox -> RE: Evil is the absence of empathy. (7/13/2008 9:04:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Focusing Yes, I think you have been misunderstood. My apologies. I think I have an idea what you mean though ... people are insensitive, they have been desensitized to the world around them. IMO, it all starts with the cartoons (yep, innocent as they may seem), and continues on with music, movies, news, magazine articles. We become so accustomed to violence and revenge in the world that we simply overlook what's going on. We definitely need to use discernment as to our own realities ... is the person holding the "homeless" sign really homeless, or are they just too lazy to work, opting for handouts from others who have big hearts. Living in a big city, this is something I'm faced with pretty much on a daily basis. Those I see on a regular basis and can determine their situations fairly easily (seeing them 4 or 5 days a week, gradually appearing dirtier for lack of shower, no fresh clothing to put on, getting thinner for lack of food), versus the guy on the freeway offramp holding the "homeless" sign who always looks clean and freshly shaved, wearing clean current style clothing - I'm not going to bother giving him anything because, to me, he is a fake, lazy, willing to manipulate and take advantage of others. In the first instance, although I cannot empathize - having never been in those shoes - I can observe her situation and her need. In the second instance, I still cannot empathize, I can observe his situation and that he does not appear to be in need. I think empathy and discernment are two different things. Giving cash to someone who may be alcoholic and spend it on such isn't helping them. Giving to programs that reach out to help the homeless in a holistic way is empathy. Making eye contact and treating some one as a human being is empathy. Volunteering to work at your church that hosts the homeless on cold winter nights is empathy.

SonInMe1 -> RE: Evil is the absence of empathy. (7/13/2008 10:10:20 PM)
Empathy carried to far leads to enablement. Our relationships with other people are not based on emotion alone, which empathy is. There is also truth, conviction and rebuke. If our relationships were entirely dependant on empathy, then there wouldn;t be any of these things and no one would change or grow. We worship a God who loves and has Grace but also is just. There are consequences for sin and to enable someone to continue in their sin by excessive empathy is just as much a sin as having no empathy at all. Cry on my shoulder and I'll listen to your probelms and then we can sit down and figure out what has to be done. I feel sorry for no one. Pity is a horrible sentiment. I don't care what your skin color is. I don't care if you have MS. I don't care if you are in a wheel chair or mentally retarded or mentally ill or whatever other excuse you can come up with for not being the person God made you to be. I care for people. Thier circumstances are just challenges God has placed in their lives to overcome. We all have them. Some are "bigger" than others. Some are not as easily seen but we all are challenged to walk our walks. We, as a group, are here to help one another grow toward the goal.

DaveW -> RE: Evil is the absence of empathy. (7/14/2008 7:11:47 AM)
You do realize that most legalistic forms of christianity (probably other religions as well) are not "evil" but have absolutely no empathy. They will do the right thing, the good thing and avoid the evil thing for the wrong reasons. They will not lie, they will not steal, they will not commit adultery but not because it would hurt someone. It is all done to live up to a religous standard. So I do not think that "Evil" is necessarily the absence of empathy, as both both can be lacking.

PrexicKehdaki -> RE: Evil is the absence of empathy. (7/14/2008 10:27:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LivingParadox quote: ORIGINAL: PrexicKehdaki quote: ORIGINAL: LivingParadox quote: ORIGINAL: PrexicKehdaki I somewhat agree with the OP, but it's worth noting that people can be both empathetic and evil at the same time. Consider a delusional woman that feels her children are possessed by the devil. She may think she's abusing them for their own good, to get the devil out, but she's also a source of evil. A lot of people in history with intense moral convictions have done evil through what they felt was empathy. I'm not sure your example of someone mentally ill is a good example of "empathy", as anyone who has known someone mentally sick enough to harm their children or simply take the time to understand the disease --you'd realize that is medical condition not a conviction. "Light heartly" -- you are not showing much empathy towards the mentally ill. [;)] It is very much empathy carried out by a delusion. They do believe they are helping or saving their children, in these special occasions. So as a special occasion this is really an exception not really a good example of most normal functioning people who just don't show empathy. lol, that's all my example ever was.

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