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RE: Can someone LOSE their faith - 7/15/2008 5:28:11 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 1124
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
Are you even reading my posts?
We have taken this thread for enough off the OP.
Absolultely, and am astounded that you feel that way.
Please RC, this is not the first time we have been down this road. 
quote:
As for the OP Do you think folks can loose their faith?
In all seriousness, I have no idea what that even means. Faith is not just something that hangs out there in the ether all by itself. Faith must have an object. The object of Christian faith is Jesus Christ. So, if our faith is in Christ, I guess the question is really can we lose Jesus Christ? Isn't that how you arrived at OSAS, back in response to my first post?
But, the question is not OSAS, the question is can we lose Jesus once we have Him. My answer to that is, Eph 4:30 and Heb. 13:5.
quote:
If not, then what about the great falling away mentioned by Godddy in post #34.
I believe that has to do with end times and the appearance of the lawless one? I would need to look at the passage (?), but I do not think it applies to this discussion.
quote:
Or the passages posted by Doinkdom in Post #36.
1 Tim 1:18-20, Answered in my first post to this thread. 1 Cor 5:4-5 has little to do with faith. We find out in 2 Cor. that Paul was testing the body of believers there, to see if they would be obedient to Him.
To get into the whole 'deliver to Satan' thing would take us far off of the OP, IMHO.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Can someone LOSE their faith - 7/15/2008 5:28:21 PM
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Psalms274
Posts: 1355
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From: Georgia
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quote:
This is true, but how are we to judge if one is true to his faith, and has a real relationship with the Lord. Is it only by fruit? What is the definition of fruit? Is it by their countenance? Is it by what they say? What they do? Do we all not mess up? Do we all say things that we don't do, or mean?
Actually, I didn't say we are to judge ... in fact, we are not the judge of that ... (remember how Jesus made the analogy about harvesting the wheat in Matthew 13?)
quote:
Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.
"The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'
" 'An enemy did this,' he replied.
"The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?'
" 'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.' "
Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, "Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field." ...
37 ff : He answered, "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.
"As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.
I believe the reason we are to inspect fruit is for the purpose of following not judging. If you see someone who says they believe in Christ, but is very ugly towards others at all times (for example) we know not to follow their teaching or opinions.
... as to what to do if someone says they are a Christian and are in a grievous sin ... we are to lovingly confront the behavior with what God's word says about it, and the LEADERSHIP of the church does their job (I can't remember where to find the scripture on church discipline). The rest is the Holy Spirit's job. I think we try to do His job at times. 
NOTE: Make sure your heart is in the right place before you do any "gentle" rebukes ... we often have the wrong motivation in these matters ... pray for them if you are not sure.
_____________________________
I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ.
< Linus w/ a friends baby!
http://piswa.blogspot.com/
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RE: Can someone LOSE their faith - 7/15/2008 5:58:18 PM
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faroukfarouk
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Someone asked about a definition of faith.
I think a good definition of faith and the way God honours it, is found in Hebrews chapter 11.
_____________________________
Trust the Bible.
Trust the Lord.
Don't trust the appearance of things.
(I'm a guy. Some tattoo designs look nice, though...but I haven't worn my earrings lately. So, think the lady in the avatar is my sister?)
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RE: Can someone LOSE their faith - 7/15/2008 6:37:04 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 905
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quote:
This is true, but how are we to judge if one is true to his faith, and has a real relationship with the Lord. Is it only by fruit? What is the definition of fruit? Is it by their countenance? Is it by what they say? What they do? Do we all not mess up? Do we all say things that we don't do, or mean?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Psalms274
Actually, I didn't say we are to judge ... in fact, we are not the judge of that ... (remember how Jesus made the analogy about harvesting the wheat in Matthew 13?)
I may have misunderstood your implications, and apologize.
When I said how are we to judge, I didn't mean, black robe, on the bench, gavel in hand judge, but how do we "know" judge. Which is why I went on to ask for specifics in telling if one is true to their faith. How do we know? If we don't know, don't come to the conclusion that their never was faith. Thats what I was trying to say.
I agree with you, that it is not our job to judge. I have just seen a few posts saying that if someone loses their faith, that must mean they never had it. It was a reply(my post) to all who read it. I didn't mean to point the finger at you by using a quote from your post.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Psalms274
NOTE: Make sure your heart is in the right place before you do any "gentle" rebukes ... we often have the wrong motivation in these matters ... pray for them if you are not sure.
This is true, and I agree.
And yes it is wise, and we should be able to judge someone by their fruit whom we may look to as a leader or pastor. That is a different example of judging fruit, and not the way I saw some people using fruits as a way to tell if someone is true to their faith.
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
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RE: Can someone LOSE their faith - 7/15/2008 9:58:02 PM
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Lufia
Posts: 187
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From: Canada, quebec province
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My opinion is this: i don't have to tell a christian is doing wrong . The Holy Spirit will take care of that if that person is a true christian and had received Christ in his/her life.
_____________________________
Give your life to Jesus and enjoy the ride!
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RE: Can someone LOSE their faith - 7/16/2008 1:28:41 AM
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Godddy
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I gave my heart to Christ, in 1984, but it was the second time I ask Jesus into my heart.
The first time it was lip service, the second time it was heart service.
But I back slide, but was always aware of the Holy Spirit, I didn't stop believing in God.
It took something bad to bring me back to Christ, my first love and asked for forgiveness. did Jesus welcome me back absolutely. Remember the story of the prodical son.
Have I sinned since? yes I have will I again? in all probablity.
Like paul says "I do the things I don't want to, and don't do the things I want to."
We are human, God is well aware of that, and loves us unconditional.
The ones who lose faith, are those who stop believing in Christ and the Bible Gods word.
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RE: Can someone LOSE their faith - 7/16/2008 9:26:52 AM
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greatdivide46
Posts: 1188
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Opp, Alabama
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Something to consider:
Could you invite strangers into your hourse, feed them, give them a place to rest, and even have fun & fellowship with them but they leave without ever becoming part of your family (joint heirs with your sons or daughters)? Absolutely! But sharing in my family life is not nearly as intimate as sharing in the Holy Spirit. At least I don't think so. I can see how someone might do all the things you've said and not become a part of my family. But I still don't see how someone can share in the Holy Spirit and find the experience of tasting the heavenly gift and the goodness of the word of God so repugnant that they don't swallow it.
_____________________________
greatdivide46
SFC, USA (Ret)
The reflections of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the LORD -- Proverbs 16:1
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RE: Can someone LOSE their faith - 7/16/2008 9:37:56 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6614
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quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Something to consider:
Could you invite strangers into your hourse, feed them, give them a place to rest, and even have fun & fellowship with them but they leave without ever becoming part of your family (joint heirs with your sons or daughters)? Absolutely! But sharing in my family life is not nearly as intimate as sharing in the Holy Spirit. At least I don't think so. I can see how someone might do all the things you've said and not become a part of my family. But I still don't see how someone can share in the Holy Spirit and find the experience of tasting the heavenly gift and the goodness of the word of God so repugnant that they don't swallow it.
Unless one is born again - adopted into the Kingdom - they will eventually be repelled by God, it's simply the unregenerated human nature. As John wrote, "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us." (1 John 2:19)
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RE: Can someone LOSE their faith - 7/16/2008 10:12:34 AM
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doinkdom
Posts: 4279
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From: The higher lowcountry
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lufia
My opinion is this: i don't have to tell a christian is doing wrong . The Holy Spirit will take care of that if that person is a true christian and had received Christ in his/her life.
This is not really directed at Lufia, but a general statement/question: what do we do with Galatians 6:1 if we have this opinion?
Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted.
_____________________________
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RE: Can someone LOSE their faith - 7/16/2008 12:39:38 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 905
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
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quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lufia
My opinion is this: i don't have to tell a christian is doing wrong . The Holy Spirit will take care of that if that person is a true christian and had received Christ in his/her life.
This is not really directed at Lufia, but a general statement/question: what do we do with Galatians 6:1 if we have this opinion?
Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted.
This is an excellent point, which brings me to my next point. Again this is going off topic, but....are we not still able to willfully disobey the Holy Spirit. Considering God wants willful obedience, and doesn't make us obey. If we see a brother or sister willfully sinning, does that mean they are truly not saved, or are they just willfully going against the leading of the Spirit. The Holy Spirit will still lead us, guide us, and tell us not to do that, and when we do, we will be convicted of it. But don't we still have that choice. So do we need to gently rebuke a fellow Christian if we can, but out of regard for them, and not because we think we are better than them, or whatever. Or do we watch them crash and burn, so to speak, waiting for them to come to their senses, and listen to the leading of the Spirit.
So to get back on topic so to say....is it possible for someone who is willfully sinning while disregarding the leading of the Spirit, all the while not being rebuked by his fellow Christians who know him, to fall away from his faith. By taking the approach that a true Christian will be taken care of by the Spirit, do we avoid opportunities to help out our brother. And by doing so, they get so caught up in sin, that they don't lose faith in themselves, and then subsequently in God. Is this not possible? Maybe it is just me and my humble still learning opinion, but I see this as being possible. We need to take active roles in our faith and maybe just maybe in the lives of those around us. In a good way, not a nosy holier than thou way.
Again, I apologize for getting off topic, hence my try to get it back on. But I feel it all ties together. And yes, it is my humble opinion that someone who is saved can get beaten up by life so bad, that they lose their faith. And yet some suggest, that we just watch them do it. Wasn't Peter told to strengthen his brothers after the Lord said satan asked to sift him like wheat. We should do the same.
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
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RE: Can someone LOSE their faith - 7/16/2008 2:18:59 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6614
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
JimboFletch,
That was not me that said " Considering God wants willful obedience" that was SavedByGraceMD.
God wants and demand obedience as so aptly put in;
(Luk 6:46) And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Thanks
RC
I know it was SavedByGraceMD that wrote, "Considering God wants willful obedience..."
I thought God does want us to willfully obey Him. What am I missing?
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RE: Can someone LOSE their faith - 7/16/2008 3:12:53 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5668
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
JimboFletch,
That was not me that said " Considering God wants willful obedience" that was SavedByGraceMD.
God wants and demand obedience as so aptly put in;
(Luk 6:46) And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Thanks
RC
I know it was SavedByGraceMD that wrote, "Considering God wants willful obedience..."
I thought God does want us to willfully obey Him. What am I missing?
My misreading, my mistake sorry.
I really should slow down with my mid-day drive by postings.
Thaqks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Can someone LOSE their faith - 7/16/2008 6:38:53 PM
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Godddy
Posts: 68
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I think the confusion comes when we start playing Holy Spirit thats not our job. Its not our business to know who the faithless are or who loses their faith. Our job is to pray for those in trouble, to set an example for the babies in Christ.
The truth, is we are not all in the same place spiritually, some have problems with one thing another with something else.
There are some christians, who look from the outside perfect in Christ,
When you get a Christian like that its time to take a closer look and start praying for that person.
We will never be perfected till we hit the gates of heaven, and Jesus says "Well done my good and Faithful servent."
I do know one thing once someone is touched by the Holy Spirit and starts living for Christ Jesus, Is very hard to go back into the world.
When I came back to Jesus I was shell shocked, The world is no place to be without Jesus
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RE: Can someone LOSE their faith - 7/16/2008 7:06:53 PM
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faroukfarouk
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The Spirit does His sovereign work silently and unseen.
The Lord Jesus said also that 'by their fruits ye shall know them'.
_____________________________
Trust the Bible.
Trust the Lord.
Don't trust the appearance of things.
(I'm a guy. Some tattoo designs look nice, though...but I haven't worn my earrings lately. So, think the lady in the avatar is my sister?)
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RE: Can someone LOSE their faith - 7/16/2008 10:10:28 PM
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beachcooky
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When I was 13 years old, I lost my faith in God.
There were numerous things that were happening to me during that time. And I just lost my faith and actually decided to turn my back on God.
Thankfully, I came back to Him because of a good friend :)
But I feel that it is possible, because I have went through the same thing.
_____________________________
www.myspace.com/xsweetheartforux
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RE: Can someone LOSE their faith - 7/16/2008 11:47:59 PM
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faroukfarouk
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The Scriptures are constant, even if we are not.
_____________________________
Trust the Bible.
Trust the Lord.
Don't trust the appearance of things.
(I'm a guy. Some tattoo designs look nice, though...but I haven't worn my earrings lately. So, think the lady in the avatar is my sister?)
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RE: Can someone LOSE their faith - 7/17/2008 10:10:10 AM
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lightbeamrider
Posts: 89
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If chosen by God from eternity then the answer is no. One cannot loose what they never had in the first place. We who were dead in sin cannot choose life in and of ourselves. To assume all have the ability to choose to either accept or reject Christ has consequences. If i take a math test and choose all the right answers then i get an A. I get the glory. I earned the A. If man has the ability to choose life (being dead in sin) then man gets the glory. The same principal holds true for faith for God is able. My free will does not put God in check for God is able to overcome human free will. Esau was doomed from before birth and Jacob was chosen over Esau not because of any foreknowledge but by the mercy of God alone Who has mercy on whom He has mercy and hardens whom He hardens. There is no injustice with God. We are not to answer back to God....(the much dreaded Romans 9)
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RE: Can someone LOSE their faith - 7/17/2008 10:24:39 AM
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faroukfarouk
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Romans 9, Ephesians 2, etc, are sobering and heart-seraching passages but if we humble ourselves before God, we can also trust in the security of His everlasting arms, and the finished work of Christ, to His glory.
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightbeamrider
If chosen by God from eternity then the answer is no. One cannot loose what they never had in the first place. We who were dead in sin cannot choose life in and of ourselves. To assume all have the ability to choose to either accept or reject Christ has consequences. If i take a math test and choose all the right answers then i get an A. I get the glory. I earned the A. If man has the ability to choose life (being dead in sin) then man gets the glory. The same principal holds true for faith for God is able. My free will does not put God in check for God is able to overcome human free will. Esau was doomed from before birth and Jacob was chosen over Esau not because of any foreknowledge but by the mercy of God alone Who has mercy on whom He has mercy and hardens whom He hardens. There is no injustice with God. We are not to answer back to God....(the much dreaded Romans 9)
_____________________________
Trust the Bible.
Trust the Lord.
Don't trust the appearance of things.
(I'm a guy. Some tattoo designs look nice, though...but I haven't worn my earrings lately. So, think the lady in the avatar is my sister?)
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RE: Can someone LOSE their faith - 7/17/2008 11:10:02 AM
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Godddy
Posts: 68
Joined: 5/15/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lightbeamrider
If chosen by God from eternity then the answer is no. One cannot loose what they never had in the first place. We who were dead in sin cannot choose life in and of ourselves. To assume all have the ability to choose to either accept or reject Christ has consequences. If i take a math test and choose all the right answers then i get an A. I get the glory. I earned the A. If man has the ability to choose life (being dead in sin) then man gets the glory. The same principal holds true for faith for God is able. My free will does not put God in check for God is able to overcome human free will. Esau was doomed from before birth and Jacob was chosen over Esau not because of any foreknowledge but by the mercy of God alone Who has mercy on whom He has mercy and hardens whom He hardens. There is no injustice with God. We are not to answer back to God....(the much dreaded Romans 9)
Didn't Abraham, go back and forth with God about Sodom and Gomorrah,
And Moses in the wilderness for the children of Israel.
So what you are saying God never changes His mind. then why pray without ceasing.
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RE: Can someone LOSE their faith - 7/17/2008 12:03:09 PM
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faroukfarouk
Posts: 874
Joined: 4/16/2008
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God does not work according to men's theories: prayer is rather about dependance upon the Lord, and seeking His will: "Thy will be done" and seeking His grace and mercy for ourselves and others.
We need to make sure we are not being influenced by humanistic thinking when we speak about God and the Scriptures.
_____________________________
Trust the Bible.
Trust the Lord.
Don't trust the appearance of things.
(I'm a guy. Some tattoo designs look nice, though...but I haven't worn my earrings lately. So, think the lady in the avatar is my sister?)
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RE: Can someone LOSE their faith - 7/17/2008 1:22:04 PM
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lightbeamrider
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Joined: 6/6/2008
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Abraham did intercede to God and so did Moses on behalf of Sodom and Gomorrah and God approved. As Christians we are to interced to God on behalf of the unsaved thru prayer and we are to represent Christ to unbelievers. We are Christ's men. We pray without ceasing because it is part of the program. We are required to. As humans we are bound by space and time and matter. God is not. Time and space was created for God's Creation which inhabits time and space. God is outside all there is in our dimension. Mark Twain wrote Huckelberry Finn. Mark Twain is not in the story as a character. Twain is the author. In the same mannor (and perhaps it is a weak anology) God is outside the narrative. God inhabits eternity where time and space as we know it does not exist. We must be careful to avoid putting God in His Creation. (time and space) Certainly God can intrude into His Creation and the accounts indicate this is indeed the case. The results, for us, are not always pleasant and seldom what we expect. Scripture indicates God repents, (changes His mind). God, however does not change. Many of these concepts did not make sense to me at first but came in time. I will go out on a limb here. In John 11:43 Jesus commands Lazarus to come forth and Lazarus is revived after being dead for 4 days. This was a physical miracle which points to a spiritual reality. It's not like Lazarus could say.."no thanks Jesus, i prefer to exercise my free option and remain here." "Oh great and awesome God, who can overcome death. Is anything impossible with You. Is puny human free will an obstacle to You. You who desires all men to be saved. Are U rendered helpless on account of free will? No U are not." You will note the intersessions of Abraham did not prevent the fate which befell Sodom and Gomorrah. Abraham is commended for trying. If it were me i might have said "hold on let me get my things and Your Will be done!" "Let them burn!" Anyways, back to Lazerus, Jesus commanded Lazarus came forth. God draws us to Christ (Jn.6:44) and we are born again from a spiritual death to life, become new creatures and only know life. Ultimately we cannot be what we are not. IN John 6:37 Jesus says..."All that the Father gives to Me,will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not caste out."
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RE: Can someone LOSE their faith - 7/17/2008 2:12:40 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6614
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lightbeamrider
Abraham did intercede to God and so did Moses on behalf of Sodom and Gomorrah and God approved. As Christians we are to interced to God on behalf of the unsaved thru prayer and we are to represent Christ to unbelievers. We are Christ's men. We pray without ceasing because it is part of the program. We are required to. As humans we are bound by space and time and matter. God is not. Time and space was created for God's Creation which inhabits time and space. God is outside all there is in our dimension. Mark Twain wrote Huckelberry Finn. Mark Twain is not in the story as a character. Twain is the author. In the same mannor (and perhaps it is a weak anology) God is outside the narrative. God inhabits eternity where time and space as we know it does not exist. We must be careful to avoid putting God in His Creation. (time and space) Certainly God can intrude into His Creation and the accounts indicate this is indeed the case. The results, for us, are not always pleasant and seldom what we expect. Scripture indicates God repents, (changes His mind). God, however does not change. Many of these concepts did not make sense to me at first but came in time. I will go out on a limb here. In John 11:43 Jesus commands Lazarus to come forth and Lazarus is revived after being dead for 4 days. This was a physical miracle which points to a spiritual reality. It's not like Lazarus could say.."no thanks Jesus, i prefer to exercise my free option and remain here." "Oh great and awesome God, who can overcome death. Is anything impossible with You. Is puny human free will an obstacle to You. You who desires all men to be saved. Are U rendered helpless on account of free will? No U are not." You will note the intersessions of Abraham did not prevent the fate which befell Sodom and Gomorrah. Abraham is commended for trying. If it were me i might have said "hold on let me get my things and Your Will be done!" "Let them burn!" Anyways, back to Lazerus, Jesus commanded Lazarus came forth. God draws us to Christ (Jn.6:44) and we are born again from a spiritual death to life, become new creatures and only know life. Ultimately we cannot be what we are not. IN John 6:37 Jesus says..."All that the Father gives to Me,will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not caste out."
Excellent post, thanks for sharing!
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RE: Can someone LOSE their faith - 7/17/2008 2:57:44 PM
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Bridgitt
Posts: 237
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Hebrew 12:2 - looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising shame, and hath sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Philippians 1:6 - being confident of this very thing, that he who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Jesus Christ.
If salvation and all the gifts we have been given to us by God would depend on our own self to keep them, then we would never make it and lose everything. A christian is sustained by God and He has promised never to leave us nor to forsake us. He is the author of our faith, however, it depends on us to abide in Him and make that faith grow.
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RE: Can someone LOSE their faith - 7/17/2008 4:51:17 PM
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Godddy
Posts: 68
Joined: 5/15/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lightbeamrider
Abraham did intercede to God and so did Moses on behalf of Sodom and Gomorrah and God approved. As Christians we are to interced to God on behalf of the unsaved thru prayer and we are to represent Christ to unbelievers. We are Christ's men. We pray without ceasing because it is part of the program. We are required to. As humans we are bound by space and time and matter. God is not. Time and space was created for God's Creation which inhabits time and space. God is outside all there is in our dimension. Mark Twain wrote Huckelberry Finn. Mark Twain is not in the story as a character. Twain is the author. In the same mannor (and perhaps it is a weak anology) God is outside the narrative. God inhabits eternity where time and space as we know it does not exist. We must be careful to avoid putting God in His Creation. (time and space) Certainly God can intrude into His Creation and the accounts indicate this is indeed the case. The results, for us, are not always pleasant and seldom what we expect. Scripture indicates God repents, (changes His mind). God, however does not change. Many of these concepts did not make sense to me at first but came in time. I will go out on a limb here. In John 11:43 Jesus commands Lazarus to come forth and Lazarus is revived after being dead for 4 days. This was a physical miracle which points to a spiritual reality. It's not like Lazarus could say.."no thanks Jesus, i prefer to exercise my free option and remain here." "Oh great and awesome God, who can overcome death. Is anything impossible with You. Is puny human free will an obstacle to You. You who desires all men to be saved. Are U rendered helpless on account of free will? No U are not." You will note the intersessions of Abraham did not prevent the fate which befell Sodom and Gomorrah. Abraham is commended for trying. If it were me i might have said "hold on let me get my things and Your Will be done!" "Let them burn!" Anyways, back to Lazerus, Jesus commanded Lazarus came forth. God draws us to Christ (Jn.6:44) and we are born again from a spiritual death to life, become new creatures and only know life. Ultimately we cannot be what we are not. IN John 6:37 Jesus says..."All that the Father gives to Me,will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not caste out."
Thank you so much for taking The time to answer my question in such great lengths. And you are right, I am guilty of put God in His creation.
I love God and love to hear His word. I am still growing, and learning.
I don't have clear revelation of Gods word as some do.
God Bless and Thank you.
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