Can someone LOSE their faith (Full Version)

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kyl -> Can someone LOSE their faith (7/13/2008 12:51:47 PM)

While in the chat rooms yesterday I repeatedly heard people say that had lost their faith.
Is this possible?
I have always thought of faith as being God given.
That we are all given a measure of faith,
That the more you use your faith the stronger your faith becomes because your relationship and trust in the Lord continuly grows.
I understand that we can get weary,tired,rebellious,or fall flat on our face,feel rejected,hurt,abandoned
But the Lord supplies us enough faith to see us through.
Is not the measure of faith we are given ENOUGH to see us through?

IS THIS JUST GETTING TO BE A COMMON THING TO SAY WHEN YOUR FEELING DOWN AND OUT?
I LOST MY FAITH!

Romans 12For by the grace given me I say to everyone of you:Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought,but rather think of yourself with sober judgement,in accordance with the meausure of faith God has given you.
Timothy 19 having good faith and a good conscience,Some have rejected these and so have shipwrecked thier faith.

In the verse in Timothy it said you can shipwreck your faith
If I am reading this right it is your own undoing that causes this.
So you didnt lose it you let it go or didnt use it.

Looking forward to hear some opinions
Please post scriptures on this subject



mvic -> RE: Can someone LOSE their faith (7/13/2008 1:11:44 PM)

Yes. I believe people can lose their Faith.

There's some who believe that Faith is God given rather than we, as humans, taking the first step into believing in God: i.e. initiating Faith.

To debate this here might be off-topic. So I'll stick to your question.

It is possible for people to have Faith in God and to be as "Christian" as one would want them to be. Then something happens, either a traumatic experience or just simply meeting the wrong company, and either suddenly or slowly and gradually, they lose their Faith. They begin to doubt; then doubt changes to questioning; and eventually questioning turns to the assurance that what they originally believed in was all wrong.

Of course, those people who say that Faith is God given, will claim that in the cases I've described those people had no God given Faith to start with. To debate this may also be off-topic.

So to summarise my view: it is as easy for a Christian to become atheist/agnostic as the other way round.

The answer is to pray that our Faith is strengthened.

I believe Lord; help my unbelief. (Mark 9:24).



mvic -> RE: Can someone LOSE their faith (7/13/2008 1:26:26 PM)

Here's a Bible instance where Peter, momentarily, lost his Faith.

"Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift you as wheat. But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers." But he replied, "Lord, I am ready to go with you to prison and to death." Jesus answered, "I tell you, Peter, before the rooster crows today, you will deny three times that you know me." (Luke 22:21:34).

At the time when Jesus was imprisoned, Peter lost all Faith in Him and denied Him three times. Jesus had predicted that.

Later, after Christ's Crucifixion, all disciples lost their Faith through fear. Had any of them been arrested by the Romans or the Pharisees and threatened with death they would have all denied being followers of Christ.

It was when the Holy Spirit came upon them that they re-gained their Faith.



SavedByGraceMD -> RE: Can someone LOSE their faith (7/13/2008 1:28:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyl

While in the chat rooms yesterday I repeatedly heard people say that had lost their faith.
Is this possible?
I have always thought of faith as being God given.
That we are all given a measure of faith,
That the more you use your faith the stronger your faith becomes because your relationship and trust in the Lord continuly grows.
I understand that we can get weary,tired,rebellious,or fall flat on our face,feel rejected,hurt,abandoned
But the Lord supplies us enough faith to see us through.
Is not the measure of faith we are given ENOUGH to see us through?

IS THIS JUST GETTING TO BE A COMMON THING TO SAY WHEN YOUR FEELING DOWN AND OUT?
I LOST MY FAITH!

Romans 12For by the grace given me I say to everyone of you:Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought,but rather think of yourself with sober judgement,in accordance with the meausure of faith God has given you.
Timothy 19 having good faith and a good conscience,Some have rejected these and so have shipwrecked thier faith.

In the verse in Timothy it said you can shipwreck your faith
If I am reading this right it is your own undoing that causes this.
So you didnt lose it you let it go or didnt use it.

Looking forward to hear some opinions
Please post scriptures on this subject

I think that the question has been answered in your own post. Whether faith is God given or not is not at question here(so I won't go there), but how is it lost. You said that the more you use your faith, the more it grows. It has to be exercised, just like our muscles. If we don't exercise it, it can grow weak, and may soon be overtaken by what the world has to say on such issues.

I agree with mvic, that our own faith can be sabotaged so to say, if we are surrounded by the wrong people, or something traumatic happens to us. For some, they think their own intelligence doesn't allow them to have faith. There may be many reasons for why one would lose their faith, but I do believe it can be lost, or as you said, let go of. I believe this world does everything it can to separate us from our faith, and we need to do everything we can to hold onto it.

So again I will post this as mvic already did, sound advice for anyone who thinks they may be losing their faith.....

"I believe Lord; help my unbelief." (Mark 9:24).



butterfly616 -> RE: Can someone LOSE their faith (7/13/2008 1:48:44 PM)

Luke 22:31, 32
“Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift each of you like wheat. But I have pleaded in prayer for you, Simon, that your faith should not fail. So when you have repented and turned to me again, strengthen your brothers.”

I think that we can lose our faith. Jesus prayed for Peter that he would not lose his faith.

We all go through tough times, finding ourselves spiritually weary and perhaps questioning God. When I have gone through such times, I asked myself, "Do you believe that Jesus is the Son of God?" I always answer yes. Sadly, some give up their faith and belief after suffering a trial.

Luke 8:13
The seeds on the rocky soil represent those who hear the message and receive it with joy. But since they don’t have deep roots, they believe for a while, then they fall away when they face temptation



URForgiven -> RE: Can someone LOSE their faith (7/13/2008 1:57:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyl

While in the chat rooms yesterday I repeatedly heard people say that had lost their faith.
Is this possible?
I have always thought of faith as being God given.
That we are all given a measure of faith,
That the more you use your faith the stronger your faith becomes because your relationship and trust in the Lord continuly grows.
I understand that we can get weary,tired,rebellious,or fall flat on our face,feel rejected,hurt,abandoned
But the Lord supplies us enough faith to see us through.
Is not the measure of faith we are given ENOUGH to see us through?

IS THIS JUST GETTING TO BE A COMMON THING TO SAY WHEN YOUR FEELING DOWN AND OUT?
I LOST MY FAITH!

Romans 12For by the grace given me I say to everyone of you:Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought,but rather think of yourself with sober judgement,in accordance with the meausure of faith God has given you.
Timothy 19 having good faith and a good conscience,Some have rejected these and so have shipwrecked thier faith.

In the verse in Timothy it said you can shipwreck your faith
If I am reading this right it is your own undoing that causes this.
So you didnt lose it you let it go or didnt use it.

Looking forward to hear some opinions
Please post scriptures on this subject


Our faith, as Christians, is in Christ. He is the object of our faith. Mature faith is centered on the fullness of Christ, on His sufficiency. And this faith is the faith that unifies us in The Body.

Ephesians 4:13
"until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ"

Immature faith focuses on ourselves, and results in faith that is never sure, never certain, and that is subject to the all kinds of false teaching...

Ephesians 4:14
"Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful schemes."

Thinking too highly of ourselves is faith in ourselves and in our own abilities, rather than faith in Christ and His sufficiency. Shipwrecked faith is not lost faith, it is misplaced faith.

Peace



rcjames -> RE: Can someone LOSE their faith (7/13/2008 3:30:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: URForgiven
Thinking too highly of ourselves is faith in ourselves and in our own abilities, rather than faith in Christ and His sufficiency. Shipwrecked faith is not lost faith, it is misplaced faith.


So is this example given by mvic;

"Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift you as wheat. But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers." But he replied, "Lord, I am ready to go with you to prison and to death." Jesus answered, "I tell you, Peter, before the rooster crows today, you will deny three times that you know me." (Luke 22:21:34).

"Misplaced" faith or losing faith and then getting it back?

URForgiven, me thinks you try to hard to protect your OSAS doctrine in the face of Scripture.

Thanks
RC



URForgiven -> RE: Can someone LOSE their faith (7/13/2008 4:46:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: URForgiven
Thinking too highly of ourselves is faith in ourselves and in our own abilities, rather than faith in Christ and His sufficiency. Shipwrecked faith is not lost faith, it is misplaced faith.


So is this example given by mvic;

"Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift you as wheat. But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers." But he replied, "Lord, I am ready to go with you to prison and to death." Jesus answered, "I tell you, Peter, before the rooster crows today, you will deny three times that you know me." (Luke 22:21:34).

"Misplaced" faith or losing faith and then getting it back?

URForgiven, me thinks you try to hard to protect your OSAS doctrine in the face of Scripture.

Thanks
RC


It is not about OSAS, it is about whether one has received life...or not.

Peace



Butterflytearz -> RE: Can someone LOSE their faith (7/13/2008 5:29:09 PM)

I believe that one can be decieved , even turn to other Gods , but once you have received faith from God and have recieved the revelation of life, you will come back home. God will be waiting with open arms, like the prodigal son.


John 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

Romans 8
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.



rcjames -> RE: Can someone LOSE their faith (7/13/2008 7:10:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: URForgiven
It is not about OSAS, it is about whether one has received life...or not.

Peace


I will concur with that.

That is the standard OSAS answer to someone who obviously in not saved; "They were never really saved to begin with". The only problem is that Churches that push OSAS have been telling those folks "That were never really saved to begin with" for years that they were saved no matter what.

Truly dangerous ground.

Thanks
RC



TheBibleTRUTH -> RE: Can someone LOSE their faith (7/13/2008 8:13:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: URForgiven
It is not about OSAS, it is about whether one has received life...or not.

Peace


I will concur with that.

That is the standard OSAS answer to someone who obviously in not saved; "They were never really saved to begin with". The only problem is that Churches that push OSAS have been telling those folks "That were never really saved to begin with" for years that they were saved no matter what.

Truly dangerous ground.

Thanks
RC


They are doing it wrongfully. It should always be understood and explained that you must first believe to get saved. And it should always be stressed that it's extremely easy to get born again.

Step 1 ) You believe Romans 10:9-10, instantly you get holy spirit.
Step 2 ) You are forever saved!
Step 3 ) Meet God in heaven! :D



Roberta_ -> RE: Can someone LOSE their faith (7/13/2008 8:42:16 PM)

I don't know that a person can completely lose their faith, but I am of the belief that you can certainly think you have. I have had many times when I felt that I had no faith at all. Then, out of no where, I would get a reminder that God loves me and is always there for me. Sometimes it took a while for me to "see" those reminders.



ConstantReader -> RE: Can someone LOSE their faith (7/13/2008 8:55:31 PM)

We also have the promise, "If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself" (2 Tim. 2:13).

(This is not a license to "become faithless," as it were, but a promise God Himself has made to us if we should ever have what some have called "The dark night of the soul.") [sm=dance.gif]



URForgiven -> RE: Can someone LOSE their faith (7/13/2008 9:03:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: URForgiven
It is not about OSAS, it is about whether one has received life...or not.

Peace


I will concur with that.

That is the standard OSAS answer to someone who obviously in not saved; "They were never really saved to begin with". The only problem is that Churches that push OSAS have been telling those folks "That were never really saved to begin with" for years that they were saved no matter what.

Truly dangerous ground.

Thanks
RC


As I said it is not about OSAS, it is about whether one has received life...or not. That life is in Christ, by accepting Him we receive His life, and that life is eternal life.

I am not capable of judging another's heart, and to judge someone based on their behavior is folly, as anyone can pretend to be anything.

I leave the judging to God and to country preachers [;)], for that is truly dangerous ground for us mere Christians.

Peace



map4 -> RE: Can someone LOSE their faith (7/13/2008 9:29:03 PM)

Jesus prayed that Peter's faith would not fail?
Is that the same as losing it?
------------------------------------

Some have described fear as the opposite of faith or the absence of faith.
Peter walked on the water as long as he kept his eyes on Jesus. It was when he looked at the waves that he became fearful and sank.

So, it may be a case of where faith is focused?
Is it focused in Him and trusting Him, no matter what?
Or do circumstances cause us to turn our faith away from Him and focus on our problems? Cause us to be "in fear"

So, it we are "in fear", I believe we have taken our minds or focus off of Christ. I don't necessarily think we "lost our faith" but just "lost our focus".



BibleL7 -> RE: Can someone LOSE their faith (7/14/2008 12:02:05 AM)

Kyl
Look at the word faith then the word belief, factor in the parable of the sower. It seems it is possible to believe and not have faith. For many that say they lost their faith that is not as likely as they believed without faith in God but faith in belief and that is slightly different. And as map4 stated Peter's faith failed it was not lost. Faith can fail or be weak does not mean it is lost. And of course is always the question if one can lose what one never had to begin with.



kyl -> RE: Can someone LOSE their faith (7/14/2008 12:23:56 PM)

Hebrews 12:2Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3Consider him who endured such opposition from sinful men, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.

2 Corinthians4:13It is written: "I believed; therefore I have spoken."With that same spirit of faith we also believe and therefore speak, 14because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you in his presence. 15All this is for your benefit, so that the grace that is reaching more and more people may cause thanksgiving to overflow to the glory of God.

Corinthians 4:16Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. 17For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. 18So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.



Epphesians2:8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God

Philippians2:9and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith

Hebrews10:22let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. 23Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. Hebrews10:38But my righteous one[f] will live by faith.
And if he shrinks back,
I will not be pleased with him."[g] 39But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved.


Thank you all for your responses
Some I agree with and some I dont although I appriciate everyones input.
I am still at the thought that the Lord gives us enough faith to get us through any situation.
I dont think someone can lose their faith
I think you can get to a point where you might feel that way because of something that has affected your life.
But the Lord is the author and perfector of our faith as stated in Hebrews 12 then we surely are always suppose to have faith.
Although we may not use it,or shrink back from it,deny it ,, which in either case it would be us that failed in not standing in faith and trusting the Lord.
I have felt like I had no faith left many times only to find out that there is always that something deep inside which brings me back to the Lord.



deermousie -> RE: Can someone LOSE their faith (7/14/2008 1:29:01 PM)

I wonder about the verses in Heb. 6:4-6; I don't have the biblical training to understand it (and it's one of those passages that is controversial). Maybe someone here can shed some light on it.

What is OSAS?



Roberta_ -> RE: Can someone LOSE their faith (7/14/2008 1:31:04 PM)

OSAS = Once Saved, Always Saved



URForgiven -> RE: Can someone LOSE their faith (7/14/2008 1:38:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: deermousie

I wonder about the verses in Heb. 6:4-6; I don't have the biblical training to understand it (and it's one of those passages that is controversial). Maybe someone here can shed some light on it.
quote:

Heb. 6:4-6


They have tasted, but have not swallowed. They cannot be brought back to where they have never been.

Peace



greatdivide46 -> RE: Can someone LOSE their faith (7/14/2008 2:16:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: URForgiven

They have tasted, but have not swallowed. They cannot be brought back to where they have never been.

Not only have they tasted, but they've tasted twice. They have tasted the heavenly gift and they have tasted the goodness of the word of God. However, since they have not swallowed, apparently after tasting it they found the taste repugnant and spit it out. Hard to believe, but possible I suppose. But not only have they tasted twice, but they've also shared in the Holy Spirit.

I am at a loss as to how to explain someone can share in the Holy Spirit and yet find the taste of the heavenly gift and the taste of the goodness of the word of God so repugnant that they don't swallow it.



JimboFletch -> RE: Can someone LOSE their faith (7/14/2008 2:20:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: greatdivide46

quote:

ORIGINAL: URForgiven

They have tasted, but have not swallowed. They cannot be brought back to where they have never been.

Not only have they tasted, but they've tasted twice. They have tasted the heavenly gift and they have tasted the goodness of the word of God. However, since they have not swallowed, apparently after tasting it they found the taste repugnant and spit it out. Hard to believe, but possible I suppose. But not only have they tasted twice, but they've also shared in the Holy Spirit.

I am at a loss as to how to explain someone can share in the Holy Spirit and yet find the taste of the heavenly gift and the taste of the goodness of the word of God so repugnant that they don't swallow it.

Something to consider:

Could you invite strangers into your hourse, feed them, give them a place to rest, and even have fun & fellowship with them but they leave without ever becoming part of your family (joint heirs with your sons or daughters)?



LCannon -> RE: Can someone LOSE their faith (7/14/2008 2:27:39 PM)

4st Danger Signal: Peril of Departing-Heb 6:4-5,12,13,19,20 “For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame…we desire that each one of you show the same diligence so as to realize the full assurance of hope until the end, so that you will not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises…This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and steadfast and one which enters within the veil, where Jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, having become a high priest forever…”

Supposition:A person can lose their eternal salvation.

Romans 8:1,2 “Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. Hebrews 5:9,10 “And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation, being designated by God as a high priest…” Romans 8:34-39 “Who can bring a charge against God's redeemed? God is the one who justifies; who is able to condemn? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Just as it is written, "FOR YOUR SAKE WE ARE BEING PUT TO DEATH ALL DAY LONG; WE WERE CONSIDERED AS SHEEP TO BE SLAUGHTERED." But in all these things we absolutely conquer through Him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” John 10:26-29(Jesus, to the Jews), "But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch [whom I have redeemed by My blood and victory] out of the Father's hand.”

Conclusion:If a person can lose their eternal salvation it’s not eternal.

Then it becomes whether our obedience is dependent on our performance or His obedience/sacrifice/Victory.



doinkdom -> RE: Can someone LOSE their faith (7/14/2008 3:20:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyl
IS THIS JUST GETTING TO BE A COMMON THING TO SAY WHEN YOUR FEELING DOWN AND OUT?
I LOST MY FAITH!


Yes, I believe so.



faroukfarouk -> RE: Can someone LOSE their faith (7/14/2008 4:03:06 PM)

John 3.16 speaks of everlasting life for believers.

If it's life, it's everlasting.

If it's not everlasting, it's not life.



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