Do we really need the labels? (Full Version)

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Concerto -> Do we really need the labels? (7/13/2008 2:52:50 PM)

Greetings:

No doubt you are familiar with the myriad of labels that are used in the political arena--left, right, moderate, conservative, right-winger, left-winger, etc.

I wonder however, why the need in Christianity? We talk about liberal or conservative Christians. We also use the word, "evangelical" quite a lot. We used to use the term "born-again" a lot. What ever happened to simply saying that one is a "follower of Christ"? Is it now imperative to explain what "type of Christian" we are? Does saying that I am a conservative Christian somehow help to better explain who I am? If it does help, whom does it help?

For me, I prefer the phrase, "follower of Christ."

C



SavedByGraceMD -> RE: Do we really need the labels? (7/13/2008 3:35:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Concerto

Greetings:

No doubt you are familiar with the myriad of labels that are used in the political arena--left, right, moderate, conservative, right-winger, left-winger, etc.

I wonder however, why the need in Christianity? We talk about liberal or conservative Christians. We also use the word, "evangelical" quite a lot. We used to use the term "born-again" a lot. What ever happened to simply saying that one is a "follower of Christ"? Is it now imperative to explain what "type of Christian" we are? Does saying that I am a conservative Christian somehow help to better explain who I am? If it does help, whom does it help?

For me, I prefer the phrase, "follower of Christ."

C

Me too concerto. I agree with you on this issue. Too much division in the body.

Labels, who needs em. I guess in a world where we need to label everyone, we as Christians are no different. With all of the denominational, and doctrinal differences, some feel the need to separate themselves from the rest. Basically saying, I am not one of those literal fanatics, or one of those left wing nuts, or whatever. Since our focus has been taken off of Christ, and been put on us(by ourselves, and by the world) we need to differentiate between each other.

Some don't want to come off as intolerant, so they take a more liberal stance. Others don't want to seem liberal, so they take a more conservative stance. We miss the mark by not taking a Christian stance, like what would Jesus do, or does this help to edify and bring praise to God. Seems we as the church have a lot of work to do.



RJR_fan -> RE: Do we really need the labels? (7/13/2008 4:53:53 PM)

quote:

Is it now imperative to explain what "type of Christian" we are?


Jesus said so. He warned us to beware of false prophets, who look like sheep, but are inwardly "ravening wolves." J. Greshem Machen got in trouble in 1928 for writing a book, Christianity and Liberalism, which blew the cover on the unitarians who were hijacking his church. Theological liberalism is not a flawed version of Christianity, but a different religion, with a different god, a different plan of salvation, and a different canon.



LivingParadox -> RE: Do we really need the labels? (7/13/2008 5:02:50 PM)

I think it's in the power brokers interest if they can keep us divided. I have never referred to myself as a "evangelical" although the denominations I have membership are "evangelical"... it's more a way for media to lump us together usually pointing out something "negative"... just my observation. Follower of Jesus works for me, especially if that is truly the intention -- to live out the walk of Jesus.

As for labels, there are reasons for labels, sometimes for statistics and trends but whenever you put a label on a person you've done them a great dishonor. Most people I've ever met don't fit into some nice neat label (so you don't have to bother getting to know them as a person).



mvic -> RE: Do we really need the labels? (7/13/2008 5:20:35 PM)

Concerto,

I think you'll get a lot of agreement regarding unnecessary labelling.

I also suspect it would cause extra work for St Peter when he puts different people in separate rooms in Heaven! That's why Jesus said "In my Father's house there are many rooms". He planned all along to keep us separate.

What a pity!



colliefan -> RE: Do we really need the labels? (7/13/2008 5:37:46 PM)

The FDA demands that we label food because some people have a deathly alegry to certain ingrediants. Not every "church" that calls its members followers of the Master can be called Christian because they believe there are other ways to God than through the shed blood of the Lamb.

Labels are important because it tells something about the individual. Wouldn't you say there is a vast difference between a BMW and a Yugo.
Go to a flea market and you will see knock-offs of designer goods. Looks like the real thing until one gets it home. Where one needs to be concerned is when the label is more important than the contents; which for the Christian, is Christ.



SonInMe1 -> RE: Do we really need the labels? (7/13/2008 9:55:53 PM)

Labels define differing opinions.



e.barrett -> RE: Do we really need the labels? (7/14/2008 11:54:48 AM)

I don't think it's labels that are necessarily bad (although sometimes they are completely useless). Labels can often be beneficial in helping to identify and explain things. I think the problem comes when it creates an "us vs. them" attitude. I doubt God is thrilled when churches start taking out advertisements against each other. It's also a problem when churches begin to buy into the "insiders vs. outsiders" mindset. How can we demonstrate God's love if we're spending our efforts determining who is "worthy" of that love?

Those are the dangers of labels I think.



BibleL7 -> RE: Do we really need the labels? (7/17/2008 2:42:56 AM)

Well would be nice to not have labels or need them yet there are so many that call themselves Christians or even followers of Jesus who are really not. It some times is more a way of explaining to unbelievers why I have different belief than some other church or so called Christian. I am fundamental in believing the fundamentals of the Bible and have to explain some times why someone else calling themselves a Christian says it is OK to have homosexuals in the church or even leaders of the Church. I then have to explain that the Bible teaches it is sin and not to be openly accepted in leadership. I do my best to explain it without putting down the other belief in just stating what the Bible teaches and that I follow what the Bible teaches. Though yea some times the labels are confusing and once you get to saying it in a different way such as those who used to call themselves born again believers then all of a sudden people were born again 2 or 3 or even more times. So as the Lord says we are to teach to be disciples of Him but there are just too many false teachers out there and we do need to distinguish our beliefs from false teachings and proclaim the teachings to be false. Though this does not mean we should judge all those in other beliefs as unsaved but we can point out what the false teachers are false about.



car2ner -> RE: Do we really need the labels? (7/17/2008 7:03:08 AM)

I went to a church that "didn't believe in labels". It became difficult to discribe the church. Labels, in and of themselves, are not bad. It is when they are misunderstood, misapplied, etc. that they become hurtful.

Try having a conversation without labels and you will spend tons of times and words discribing everything. Your listeners will get bored and frustrated.



makarizo -> RE: Do we really need the labels? (7/17/2008 7:10:18 AM)

At work, I am "that christian guy"
and that sounded nice and accurate to me, but I have learned that label (as perceived by certain non christians) is synonymous with judgmental, hypocritical, arrogant, a basher, unsafe, party pooper........... stuff like that.

to think that I fall into any of those catagories just because i am "that christian guy" is not true, unfair, and a bit dehumanizing.

IMO labeling is for the weak, and narrow minded.

a way of filling in blanks that we have no right to fill in.



SonInMe1 -> RE: Do we really need the labels? (7/17/2008 7:50:43 AM)

To be a conservative white christian married heterosexual male, makes you not only the smallest minority, it also makes you the target.

We were talking at work one day not too long after I was first hired. I was moved to another press so I was getting to know the guys who worked there.

Now both are from NYC. When religion came up one guy thought I had to be a catholic because I have red hair and am Irish. I told him I was a conservative christian. This is what his next words were to me...

You know, I do have a black girlfriend.

Like...wow.



justajerk -> RE: Do we really need the labels? (7/17/2008 9:32:29 AM)

Although we should desire not to have division in the church, there is a purpose....

1 Corinthians 11:19
"For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you." - KJV

Too harsh?
"for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized." - ESV

Or, to make it easier:
"But, of course, there must be divisions among you so that you who have God’s approval will be recognized!" -NLT

[;)]



deermousie -> RE: Do we really need the labels? (7/17/2008 9:48:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: justajerk

Although we should desire not to have division in the church, there is a purpose....

1 Corinthians 11:19
"For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you." - KJV


Ooh, Justajerk, this is excellent! Thanks! <hurries to write this down on "things learned today">

The context of this verse is baffling me a little - look at the context:

17 Now in giving these instructions I do not praise you, since you come together not for the better but for the worse. 18 For first of all, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you, and in part I believe it. 19 For there must also be factions among you, that those who are approved may be recognized among you. 20 Therefore when you come together in one place, it is not to eat the Lord’s Supper. 21 For in eating, each one takes his own supper ahead of others; and one is hungry and another is drunk. 22 What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and shame those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you in this? I do not praise you.


I came out of a cult background, and yeah, it's good to have labels so you know how to act. When the two nice young men knock on my door, I immediately know what to say that they need to hear. Gal. 3 tells us about "another Jesus, another Gospel" that is false. We are called to tell God's truth.



allisonbrett -> RE: Do we really need the labels? (7/17/2008 1:09:03 PM)

Do we need the labels? Probably not but then it does help us to clarify our differences and similarities. For instance, some people label themselves as Christian merely because they grew up with "christian" parents or attending a protestant church. Some may use the term in a response that they know that they aren't muslim, buddist or even jewish or some other recognized religion. Oprah even calls herself a christian but seems to align herself more with pluralism and even new age religions. There are also a lot of people who may define their belief system or moral code with Christianity but have no personal knowledge or relationship with Jesus Christ. But to me being a Christian is far more than beliefs, morals, church membership or anything else so superficial. I guess what I'm trying to say is that labels mean different things to different people. We, as Christians may tend to want to clarify and define ourselves through these additional labels. Maybe it helps separate us from those that have no idea of what a relationship with Jesus Christ is.



Bridgitt -> RE: Do we really need the labels? (7/17/2008 3:34:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Concerto

Greetings:

No doubt you are familiar with the myriad of labels that are used in the political arena--left, right, moderate, conservative, right-winger, left-winger, etc.

I wonder however, why the need in Christianity? We talk about liberal or conservative Christians. We also use the word, "evangelical" quite a lot. We used to use the term "born-again" a lot. What ever happened to simply saying that one is a "follower of Christ"? Is it now imperative to explain what "type of Christian" we are? Does saying that I am a conservative Christian somehow help to better explain who I am? If it does help, whom does it help?

For me, I prefer the phrase, "follower of Christ."

C


Yes, the church is very divided right now. It's sad.



rcjames -> RE: Do we really need the labels? (7/17/2008 4:21:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bridgit
For me, I prefer the phrase, "follower of Christ."


Yes "Follower of Christ" would be a great title for those who are actually following Christ.

Which just might be a very small number.

Thanks
RC

edited for spelling



WesP -> RE: Do we really need the labels? (7/17/2008 4:38:00 PM)

We do need labels at this point. There are way too many soy substitutes on the market!



rcjames -> RE: Do we really need the labels? (7/17/2008 4:49:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesP

We do need labels at this point. There are way too many soy substitutes on the market!


Good point WesP.


Thanks
RC



justajerk -> RE: Do we really need the labels? (7/18/2008 8:56:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: deermousie

The context of this verse is baffling me a little - look at the context:

17 Now in giving these instructions I do not praise you, since you come together not for the better but for the worse. 18 For first of all, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you, and in part I believe it. 19 For there must also be factions among you, that those who are approved may be recognized among you. 20 Therefore when you come together in one place, it is not to eat the Lord’s Supper. 21 For in eating, each one takes his own supper ahead of others; and one is hungry and another is drunk. 22 What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and shame those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you in this? I do not praise you.

What is it that has you puzzeled?
Paul points out that there are those among the body who place their own desires above or over others, as an example of division in the church. Is this not similar to those who read into (or out of) scripture so that it supports their own desires? Leading to congregations/denominations who have common interest which may be confronted by the word if it is not interpreted in a way fashionable to their liking?



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