Fun in church vs Holiness (Full Version)

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car2ner -> Fun in church vs Holiness (7/14/2008 8:48:04 AM)

I listened to a guest preacher this last Sunday and he astonished me with his sermon. I agreed with the basic concept of his lesson. It was about how the church takes God's holiness too lightly. We are more concerned with our comfort and entertainment and tend to make excuses for our behavior, even when we know we are doing things that God would not approve of.

BUT

He lost me on a few points including this statement: that he had actually heard a preacher, who was trying to encourage his congregation to come to a Sunday night meeting, say "come to church tonight. It is going to be Fun."

And I thought that he had heard the preacher say something awful. Since when did worshiping and honoring God exclude having fun on occassion?

No wonder he also said that living the christian life is hard work.



deliveredarling -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/14/2008 9:00:00 AM)

I guess people who are still caught up in worldly things think that fun is not a part of church. We are stick in the muds-how much fun can a person have at church? i have a ton of fun. The more i have matured in the faith, the less the things of the world appeal. Spiritual eyes discern the deeper more fulfilling things. Maybe others can shed more light.



SonInMe1 -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/14/2008 6:36:31 PM)

I think Jesus went to a few parties and laughed a few times.

Its not evil to enjoy yourself...even at church.

It is a sin to come to church and want nothing but entertainment.



saraimay75 -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/14/2008 8:34:09 PM)

We have been having a series of sermons on Marriage at my church. The husband and wife team who lead the church are both Pastors. Last week the wife spoke and it was a fun and Godly sermon. She spoke about Marriage with humor and truth. And a whole lotta God.

Is it always like this? Nope.

Do I still go? Yes.



flare -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/15/2008 7:43:19 AM)

there must be a time and a place for both. a worship service versus a pizza party. a bible study versus a kickball game yet both can take place in the assembly (or church). i believe God would smile on all 4 as He sees His children fellowshipping in unity with each other.



SonInMe1 -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/15/2008 7:55:27 AM)

A sermon can actually be fun.

A bible study can be fun too.



rcjames -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/15/2008 11:07:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SonInMe1

A sermon can actually be fun.

A bible study can be fun too.


I concur, but there are also some soul searching teachings that might not meet the criteria of 'Fun".

Now when the congregant has been brought to repentance by the soul searching teaching; then thier whole life will be more 'Fun".

Thsnks
RC



HighPlainsDrifter -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/15/2008 11:59:43 AM)

I've been struck by a certain lack of reverence in many churches I've attended in the past couple of years. I think that in my case, it's probably just cultural, because the church I grew up in never had things like clapping, and we had an organist instead of an amateur adult-contemporary band for music. People sat down and kept still. It's off-putting to me, but doesn't affect how much I get out of the teaching, which is the main point of going for me.



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/16/2008 8:35:01 AM)

I think the man may have just had some difficulties with some church-concepts, and he expressed them in a way he didn't think through thoroughly enough. Can he really be that lacking in humor? Give him two or three weeks, and watch for some of his own humor and life-joy to shine through.

I don't know -- maybe I am nutzoid, but I think Bible study is fun. When I go to a service, and the message hits hard but is truth, it may make me squirm, but the end result is thoroughly enjoyable. Of course, if one is bucking against the H Spirit, that's not fun. . . .



car2ner -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/16/2008 8:45:29 AM)

Sure, there are times when one needs to be sober, especially with a squirm-in-the-seat-cause-He-is-talking-to-you message. There are times when you need to sit still (even the kids). But there are times to thaw the frozen chozen.

Especially in a seeker friendly church. There are some folks who are tired of sitting quietly in a seat, being fussed at and then expected to throw a dollar in a plate. I guess that is why so many new churches are letting their hair down and trying to be more, "real".

I suspect that a relaxed and informal meeting can be just as much of a show as a strict and formal event. My concern is labeling the holiness and worthiness of the meeting according to it's style. And someone judging a person's relationship with God by their notion of style.



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/16/2008 1:27:31 PM)

Ha! I love it!
quote:

some folks who are tired of sitting quietly in a seat, being fussed at and then expected to throw a dollar in a plate.



SuspenseWriter -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/16/2008 5:10:47 PM)

Reminds me of an old joke. A family of four, nominal Christians at best, decides to try out the new church on the other side of town. After the service is over and they're back in the car, the start talking about what they thought of it.

"I don't know," the father says. "They couldn't seem to get the temperature in the sanctuary right. I was pretty uncomfortable the whole time."

"And that sermon!" the mother moans. "All that talk about sin and hell and salvation! Well, I for one am not going back!"

"The music was terrible too!" teenage sis says. "Too loud and tooo long! They'll never see me there again."

Then from far back in the rear seat, little eight-year-old Billy chirps up, "I dunno. I thought it was a pretty good show for a buck!"



SonInMe1 -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/16/2008 7:18:32 PM)

Are fun and holiness mututally exclusive terms?



DreadPirateRandy -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/16/2008 8:28:35 PM)

Teenagers are mostly at fault for expecting too much entertainment and not enough Christ.

Adults are mostly at fault for expecting too much serious and stiffness and not enough rejoicing and dancing.



car2ner -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/17/2008 8:37:49 AM)

quote:

Adults are mostly at fault for expecting too much serious and stiffness and not enough rejoicing and dancing.


Perhaps, but I've seen alot of exceptions!



Sadey -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/17/2008 2:08:25 PM)

Would someone define fun. I always think to myself "I love church, its so much fun, everything about it." THen I feel bad because maybe the word fun isn't the right word. But if fun means loving everything about going to church, even the squirming in your seat while God nails you, being with my church family, being so full of joy I don't know what to do, then I'm having FUN.



car2ner -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/17/2008 2:59:00 PM)

quote:

Would someone define fun


Good Point. I had no idea what the pastor's definition of "fun" was or the plans that the other pastor had in mind for "fun". It is just that the young preacher used the term "fun" in such a way that it almost sounded like it was heathen to have fun in church, that it was wrong to encourage folks to come to church by offering "fun". It wasn't holy enough.



SonInMe1 -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/17/2008 7:26:07 PM)

Fun is...

a welcoming atmosphere...

a sermon that teaches and excites...not one that induces a mid afternoon nap.

freedom in worship...

I know this is a little controversial but I think church should offer entertainment that is, well for a lack of a better word...christian. A concert...a christmas program....get togethers like dinners or some guest speakers or even a christian comedian...

what I like about my pastor's sermons is...his illustrations. From being led into service in a...coffin....to "rain" falling on us in the sanctuary....to having a bed on stage with him on his sermon concerning sex....to giving away in a "reverse offering" 40,000 dollars.....you just never know what is going to happen.

The worst church to me is....dirge music.....monotone sermon without any point....and no fellowships. I call this the sleeping pill church because with this kinda church...who needs a pill?



Kyrillos -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/18/2008 7:05:32 AM)

I guess I am pretty conservative in some ways, because...I don't know quite how to say this...I kind of don't think that church should be "fun" in the way that a lot of you are describing.

Or, rather, the kind of church that SonInMe1 describes fits me better. It's not that I like dirges, doom and gloom, or anything like that, it's just that...I don't know...I take very seriously the idea that the Church is a sacred place, and that whatever there is outside in the world is to be kept out there. The world as we experience it in the everyday is trivial and fleeting, while the Church is sacred and eternal. If things like having a bed or a coffin brought into your church help you to become more involved and learn more from your time in church, I think that is wonderful. I just don't want that in my church.

And, really, there is a sort of beauty in somberness. Yes, it is right to be jovial and happy, because after all, we Christians are inheritors of everlasting life in the kingdom of heaven. That is absolutely sublime. I am awed by that. More often than not, I am stunned to silence by that, and the many other beauties of my faith. It is in that silence that I find myself most connected to God. I cannot concentrate on that connection if people are telling jokes or doing other things to entertain each other. Entertain me if you feel so called to do so, but know that I will tune you out as best as I can, not because I want to be disrespectful, but because GOD is here, and I want to give Him my complete and undivided attention.

Is there something wrong with me for thinking this way? I've often said to friends, family, the priest at my church, that I would have most likely converted to Orthodoxy of some kind if I had been able to do so, rather than Roman Catholicism. I feel that certain traditions that the Orthodox in places like Russia, Armenia, Syria, Ethiopia, and other places maintain are, in some sense, fundamental to a certain "core" of Christianity that I find lacking in the western forms of Christianity. I don't know how to explain it. Talking to Orthodox people from various countries about their faith...it just seems so much more central to their collective and individual identities than it does for many western Christians I know...like there has maybe been less modernizing or secularizing influence in those churches due to the structure of their societies. Sixteen centuries on, Ethiopia continues to stretch her hands out unto God. I don't believe we do so in the west, or at least not in a way that I am supportive of without reservation.

Wow, sorry for rambling. I guess I've had certain things nagging at me for a while. The bottom line: Having fun in church is no crime, so long as we all recognize that reverence and faith are serious matters.

(For the record, I'm not saying anyone in this thread or anywhere has ever said anything to the contrary. I only mean to speak to my personal idea of what Church is. God bless all of you - however you worship!)



car2ner -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/18/2008 7:47:08 AM)

quote:

(For the record, I'm not saying anyone in this thread or anywhere has ever said anything to the contrary. I only mean to speak to my personal idea of what Church is. God bless all of you - however you worship!)



My wonderful step mom was a bit overwhelmed when I brought her to a "contemporary" worship. It was loud and the worship team was playing jazz. At her church I felt that everything had been spelled out before hand and even the hymnals had "rules for singing" i.e. don't sing too loud if you sing off key. [;)]

To all of this I smile and realize that God has created so much diversity. It is natural for folks to be drawn to differant types of worship. I think that this is a good thing.

Kyrillos, I appreciate you prefering more structure and quiet contemplation! God plants us in fellowships that suit the gifts He gives us and where we are needed. It just surprises me when people disrespect differances in worship and call it trivial because it isn't what they feel that God has called them to do.

I still don't know why the Church of Christ only sings accapella. Can anyone explain that one?



bluestone -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/18/2008 9:59:53 AM)

We are entertainment oriented in our American culture, and it has flowed over into the church.

I don't care for it.



SonInMe1 -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/18/2008 7:11:35 PM)

So, the more boring the better?



DreadPirateRandy -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/18/2008 7:30:30 PM)

I couldn't stand having to sit stiff, still, and only breathe on occasion. Where worship services are just speaking words from a screen or book, without being heartfelt. Where sermons are nothing more than a race against the clock rather than Holy Spirit led.

That is my definition of a boring church.



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/18/2008 10:50:17 PM)

(Bluestone, I really MISS your beautiful blue stone.)



bluestone -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/18/2008 11:24:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SonInMe1

So, the more boring the better?



So if it is not your way it is boring?

I want to learn. Not have a shallow fluff festival with a wanna be rock band



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