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RE: Let the Drilling Begin!!!! - 7/17/2008 11:28:48 AM
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todd_t
Posts: 1372
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From: The North Woods
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quote:
The best thing is to beat speculators at their own game, and that's what's happening with the plan to drill.
Well, the Congressmen in that link you posted seem to have the right idea. I think oil shale extraction would be fine as well, if it can be done in an environmentally safe way.
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RE: Let the Drilling Begin!!!! - 7/17/2008 12:23:44 PM
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bzirk
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From: Where the deer and antelope play
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I'm not against being environmentally safe. We should be good stewards of what the Lord has given us. Unfortunately, we have gone overboard with enviornmental protection to the point that many are now hurting. Some balanace would be good.
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Let the Drilling Begin!!!! - 7/17/2008 2:51:21 PM
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michlang
Posts: 146
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Unfortunately, too many people are deluding themselves into thinking that offshore drilling is going to provide significant relief to the crisis of supply that we are in. Even if Americans reduced their oil intake and drilled offshore, the price for oil would remain unchanged. Countries like India, which have middle classes as large as the U.S. population are ready to come "online". One Indian car company is attempting to produce 100 million cars over the next five years to satisfy the demand for vehicles from that country's middle class. Even if the entire U.S. stopped driving gas vehicles, there would be someone else to take our place, thus keeping demand high. It is unclear as to whether or not there is significant amounts of offshore oil to even make a significant dent in supply demand anyways.
_____________________________
It may be the case that the preferred philosopher of Bush is Jesus, but it is far from likely that the preferred president of Jesus is a politician who improperly enlists him as an ally in wars against the fundamentalists of other religions.-S. Zabala
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RE: Let the Drilling Begin!!!! - 7/17/2008 2:54:53 PM
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freakofnature
Posts: 761
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quote:
michlang said:
the price for oil would remain unchanged
Remaining unchanged at this point may be better than continuously raising prices. I'd be satisfied if I knew there was an end in sight of the rapidly escalating prices. Unchanged sounds pretty good at this point. And we are talking long term here, 10 years from now 20... $4.00/gallon won't be as bad after everyone adjusts to it.
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RE: Let the Drilling Begin!!!! - 7/17/2008 2:59:08 PM
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michlang
Posts: 146
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quote:
ORIGINAL: freakofnature
quote:
michlang said:
the price for oil would remain unchanged
Remaining unchanged at this point may be better than continuously raising prices. I'd be satisfied if I knew there was an end in sight of the rapidly escalating prices. Unchanged sounds pretty good at this point. And we are talking long term here, 10 years from now 20... $4.00/gallon won't be as bad after everyone adjusts to it.
True! I think, though, it is foolish to assume it will ever remain unchanged except to go higher. As more countries industrialize, the greater the demand will become. BTW, I haven't seen gas at 4.00 a gallon for a year now--try gas at 4.70, and that's the cheap stuff! It will be 5.00 a gallon by Christmas time here, if not sooner. :(
< Message edited by michlang -- 7/17/2008 3:06:12 PM >
_____________________________
It may be the case that the preferred philosopher of Bush is Jesus, but it is far from likely that the preferred president of Jesus is a politician who improperly enlists him as an ally in wars against the fundamentalists of other religions.-S. Zabala
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RE: Let the Drilling Begin!!!! - 7/17/2008 4:46:03 PM
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freakofnature
Posts: 761
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A tid bit of possibly good news.
Oil falls below $130.00/barrel.
exit question:
Will we see the difference at the pump???
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RE: Let the Drilling Begin!!!! - 7/17/2008 5:12:58 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2353
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: freakofnature
A tid bit of possibly good news.
Oil falls below $130.00/barrel.
exit question:
Will we see the difference at the pump???
Probably not as fast as when they raise prices. It seems they'll do that overnight. Roll back prices? That's done in slooowwwww motion!
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Let the Drilling Begin!!!! - 7/17/2008 7:12:06 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1665
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
And just when are there going to be hybrid trains, semis, ambulances, police cars, school buses, mail trucks, etc? And what happens to a poor family who cannot afford one? What happens to a large family who cannot fit into a smart car?
Diesel train engines are already a form of hybrid - they use diesel engines to power electric motors. (FWIW, transporting freight by rail is much more efficient than by truck). Many cities already have buses that run on natural gas. Some bus lines here outside of Boston run on overhead electric lines. As to the other vehicles mentioned - it would be a good idea for municipalities to look into more efficient, renewable technologies when purchasing new equipment. It seems to me like mail trucks and some police cars would be ideal candidates for electric & hybrid engines.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Let the Drilling Begin!!!! - 7/17/2008 8:59:51 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2353
Joined: 10/1/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
And just when are there going to be hybrid trains, semis, ambulances, police cars, school buses, mail trucks, etc? And what happens to a poor family who cannot afford one? What happens to a large family who cannot fit into a smart car?
Diesel train engines are already a form of hybrid - they use diesel engines to power electric motors. (FWIW, transporting freight by rail is much more efficient than by truck). Many cities already have buses that run on natural gas. Some bus lines here outside of Boston run on overhead electric lines. As to the other vehicles mentioned - it would be a good idea for municipalities to look into more efficient, renewable technologies when purchasing new equipment. It seems to me like mail trucks and some police cars would be ideal candidates for electric & hybrid engines.
-Dan.
The only problem with natural gas is that we imported 1.1 Trillion cubic feet of it in the 4th quarter of 2007 a 25% increase from the previous year. We import it as LNG which is very costly to unliquify it. More natural gas is used in electric power generation and is the "fuel of first-choice" for new plants since it is conceived as being "cleaner" than nuclear and coal plants. DOE Source document
I guess that puts us in the same boat as oil. We have to import too much of it meaning more dollars go overseas than come back devaluaing it even more.
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Let the Drilling Begin!!!! - 7/17/2008 10:32:27 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2611
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
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quote:
Look at the personal computer when it first came into being in the late 1970s; only the wealthy could afford them. But today, they are very prevalent and affordable for almost anyone.
Bad example. PCs weren't the essentials a personal car is today, Except for those who live in places such as a very large metro area cars are essential.
The greenies coud care less about the poor who need their cars to get to work, get their kids to school, go to church, go shopping, etc. They could are less about the higher power bills. But what is more maddening is they could care less about the poor who need a simple meal of a tortilla, rice, and beans to surive. They would rather worship the polar bears and penguins.
quote:
Diesel train engines are already a form of hybrid - they use diesel engines to power electric motors. (
And diesel comes from what, and what is the price of the stuff? So. solar and wind power will procuce diesel fuel? Perhaps they believe the engines will run on the methane from dung. (Which is really the crux of the greenies belief.)
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RE: Let the Drilling Begin!!!! - 7/18/2008 3:30:48 PM
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jcrahe
Posts: 1
Joined: 7/18/2008
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Come on people, don't buy into the lies of mammon and his minions.
Here's a little REAL common sense and some simple facts.
a) Oil Companies have over 10,000 leases right now on land that is known to have oil, but they won't drill on it. It helps their stock prices to keep them "in reserve."
b) Oil companies have millions of acres of leases off shore that are already available to them but they aren't drilling
c) The former Naval Oil Reserve in Alaska is known to have more oil than ANWR and has already been drilled, but then capped. All the oil companies have to do is uncap them.
d) Even if we gave out new leases today, and even if the oil companies moved immediately to take advantage (rather than just sit on the leases like they are doing with 10,000 existing leases today) it would still be a decade or more before we saw the first drop of oil out of those wells. How's that going to help gas prices again?
Don't get sucked into the political games. In classic fashion, certain politicians in Washington are simply using yet another crisis to enrich themselves and their friends -- NOT trying to do anything to help you and me. The oil companies have NO INTENTION of increasing production -- just increasing their prophets. But if they can use this crisis to get us to give away more public land that they can just sit on a watch their stock go up they'll certainly fan the flames of hysteria.
Wake up people, this is the kind of thing Biblical prophets warned us about:
"Hear this, you that trample on the needy, and bring to ruin the poor of the land, saying, 'When will the new moon be over so that we may sell grain; and the Sabbath, so that we may offer wheat for sale?'
Amos 8:4-5a
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RE: Let the Drilling Begin!!!! - 7/18/2008 4:08:35 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2353
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jcrahe
Come on people, don't buy into the lies of mammon and his minions.
Here's a little REAL common sense and some simple facts.
a) Oil Companies have over 10,000 leases right now on land that is known to have oil, but they won't drill on it. It helps their stock prices to keep them "in reserve."
b) Oil companies have millions of acres of leases off shore that are already available to them but they aren't drilling
c) The former Naval Oil Reserve in Alaska is known to have more oil than ANWR and has already been drilled, but then capped. All the oil companies have to do is uncap them.
d) Even if we gave out new leases today, and even if the oil companies moved immediately to take advantage (rather than just sit on the leases like they are doing with 10,000 existing leases today) it would still be a decade or more before we saw the first drop of oil out of those wells. How's that going to help gas prices again?
Don't get sucked into the political games. In classic fashion, certain politicians in Washington are simply using yet another crisis to enrich themselves and their friends -- NOT trying to do anything to help you and me. The oil companies have NO INTENTION of increasing production -- just increasing their prophets. But if they can use this crisis to get us to give away more public land that they can just sit on a watch their stock go up they'll certainly fan the flames of hysteria.
Wake up people, this is the kind of thing Biblical prophets warned us about:
"Hear this, you that trample on the needy, and bring to ruin the poor of the land, saying, 'When will the new moon be over so that we may sell grain; and the Sabbath, so that we may offer wheat for sale?'
Amos 8:4-5a
For your first post, it sure was a good one! Welcome to the forums where Christians are fed to the lions! 
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Let the Drilling Begin!!!! - 7/18/2008 4:23:22 PM
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Leon_Figg3
Posts: 486
Joined: 4/24/2005
Status: offline
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When are people going to start educating themselves, listening to all sides, and looking at and listening to what all is said and written with a critical mind instead of blindly accepting the kind of propoganda demonstrated here?
quote:
ORIGINAL: jcrahe
Come on people, don't buy into the lies of mammon and his minions.
Here's a little REAL common sense and some simple facts.
a) Oil Companies have over 10,000 leases right now on land that is known to have oil, but they won't drill on it. It helps their stock prices to keep them "in reserve."
b) Oil companies have millions of acres of leases off shore that are already available to them but they aren't drilling
c) The former Naval Oil Reserve in Alaska is known to have more oil than ANWR and has already been drilled, but then capped. All the oil companies have to do is uncap them.
d) Even if we gave out new leases today, and even if the oil companies moved immediately to take advantage (rather than just sit on the leases like they are doing with 10,000 existing leases today) it would still be a decade or more before we saw the first drop of oil out of those wells. How's that going to help gas prices again?
Don't get sucked into the political games. In classic fashion, certain politicians in Washington are simply using yet another crisis to enrich themselves and their friends -- NOT trying to do anything to help you and me. The oil companies have NO INTENTION of increasing production -- just increasing their prophets. But if they can use this crisis to get us to give away more public land that they can just sit on a watch their stock go up they'll certainly fan the flames of hysteria.
Wake up people, this is the kind of thing Biblical prophets warned us about:
"Hear this, you that trample on the needy, and bring to ruin the poor of the land, saying, 'When will the new moon be over so that we may sell grain; and the Sabbath, so that we may offer wheat for sale?'
Amos 8:4-5a
Could it possibly be that oil companies are not utiliizing the leased land because:
1. The local and state government is placing all kinds of restrictions on what they can and can not do
2. Environmentalist groups of one kind or another keep taking the oil companies to court.
3. The oil companies are still researching and determining if what they believe is there actually is there before they decide to drill.
4. The oil companies are hesitant to drill on these lands because politicians in DC keep threatening to take money away from them that is/ will be needed to actually drill on these lands.
5. The oil companies are not not being allowed to build the additional refineries that will be needed to process the additional oil.
Need to do some research about the former Naval Oil Reserve in Alaska being capped, but something in my memory tells me that there is a valid reason why that has been capped. Could it be that it is seen as part of our strategic oil reserve, and will be uncapped when our governemt deems it absolutely necessary?
< Message edited by Leon_Figg3 -- 7/18/2008 6:40:03 PM >
_____________________________
To whom much is given, much is expected. Luke 12:48
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RE: Let the Drilling Begin!!!! - 7/18/2008 8:59:05 PM
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todd_t
Posts: 1372
Joined: 6/21/2006
From: The North Woods
Status: offline
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quote:
Probably not as fast as when they raise prices. It seems they'll do that overnight. Roll back prices? That's done in slooowwwww motion!
No kidding. Funny how that happens, isn't it?
quote:
Oil Companies have over 10,000 leases right now on land that is known to have oil, but they won't drill on it. It helps their stock prices to keep them "in reserve."
Actually, a crew of GOP Congressmen helped defeat a measure raised yesterday that would have encouraged drilling now on existing oil leases.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/18/us/18cong.html?em&ex=1216526400&en=b1e10c8d2ef4c5eb&ei=5087%0A
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RE: Let the Drilling Begin!!!! - 7/18/2008 9:29:18 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2611
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: online
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quote:
Democrats ]say oil companies are sitting on 68 million acres they could be exploring. But Republicans say many of those sites have proved to be dry holes or are the subject of lawsuits and disputes over federal permits. They said that energy companies need new stock and that technological improvements have made drilling less of an environmental threat .
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RE: Let the Drilling Begin!!!! - 7/19/2008 11:33:06 AM
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bzirk
Posts: 3073
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Where the deer and antelope play
Status: offline
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Some of you do realize that just because someone has an oil lease does not mean that they can be drilled?
BTW, I mentioned earlier, but I'll reiterate. There are oil trucks having to wait to give oil to the refineries because there is not enough refining ability to take the oil that is currently being drilled. That is part of the problem that is not getting the press that it needs. Again, I base that on the two men I know who own trucking companies and have talked about this being such a common problem. Now whether or not this problem is the result of governmental policies or the oil companies being greedy, I'm not sure exactly how much each has contributed, but I believe both the government and the oil companies have contributed to this mess.
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Let the Drilling Begin!!!! - 7/19/2008 11:59:52 AM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2353
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bzirk
I believe both the government and the oil companies have contributed to this mess.
This doesn't sound berzerk to me!
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Let the Drilling Begin!!!! - 7/19/2008 2:19:27 PM
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TaoPoohBear
Posts: 424
Joined: 1/18/2008
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Leon_Figg3
Need to do some research about the former Naval Oil Reserve in Alaska being capped, but something in my memory tells me that there is a valid reason why that has been capped. Could it be that it is seen as part of our strategic oil reserve, and will be uncapped when our governemt deems it absolutely necessary?
quote:
Naval Oil Reserve in Alaska
Section 107(a) of the Naval Petroleum Reserves Production Act of 1976 is amended to read as follows:
‘(a) In General- The Secretary shall conduct an expeditious environmentally responsible program of competitive leasing of oil and gas in the National Petroleum Reserve in Alaska in accordance with this Act. Such program shall include no fewer than one lease sale in the Reserve each year during the period 2009 through 2013.’.
H.R. 6515: To amend the Naval Petroleum Reserves Production Act of 1976
quote:
House Vote #511 --- Jul 17, 2008
Result: Failed
H.R. 6515: Drill Responsibly in Leased Lands Act of 2008 (Vote On Passage)
.........Total ............Democrat........Republican
Ayes: 244 (56%)......218.................26
Nays: 173 (40%)........11...............162
No Vote: 18 (4%)........7.................11
Required: 2/3 of 417 votes (278)
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RE: Let the Drilling Begin!!!! - 7/19/2008 2:35:49 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2611
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: online
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bad bill
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RE: Let the Drilling Begin!!!! - 7/19/2008 4:04:55 PM
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backrowbaptist
Posts: 324
Joined: 6/7/2008
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We need the oil, plain and simple. The price of a barrel went down $17 this week just by Bush lifting the moratorium. It'll bring relief sooner than you think. that's why it's called the LAW of supply and demand. Plus, drilling closer means fewer super-tankers and less chance of spills. Lower cost of refining, too, if we build refineries. Win-win, I say.
_____________________________
Any of this gettin' through to you, son?
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RE: Let the Drilling Begin!!!! - 7/19/2008 4:53:33 PM
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FuzzyBear67
Posts: 1
Joined: 8/2/2007
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This is an interesting debate. My first comment is that we are in this situation because of actions by both parties.
I do believe that there needs to be urgent development of alternative sources of energy. In fact the link that Todd posted of Honda's Hydrogen cars that are being leased in Southern Calif. is an excellent step. The issue there is that they are still in testing phase and each of those vehicles if purchased is over 1 million dollars a piece and only 1 hydrogen filling station. But of all alternative fuel sources now I believe ultimately the most feasible economically. The other sources wind, solar or Bio-fuels all have major feasibility issues of one type or another.
I do believe that we need to authorize the drilling offshore and in ANWR plus develop the oil shale fields now that it has become economically feasible to do so. I have seen estimates that there could be a potential of 1 to 2 trillion barrels of oil extracted. That in itself would help keep prices at least steady if not decrease them while work is done to develop the infrastructure for say the Hydrogen cell car.
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