Will science ever prove the existence of the soul? (Full Version)

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EStan -> Will science ever prove the existence of the soul? (7/14/2008 1:14:01 PM)

I know many (if not most) of us who are members here at Christianity.com absolutely believe in the existence of the soul, the "essence" of what we are. But do you think the technology will ever be developed that will prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that each of us is in fact made up of a body and a soul or spirit?



essentialsaltes -> RE: Will science ever prove the existence of the soul? (7/14/2008 2:16:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: EStan

I know many (if not most) of us who are members here at Christianity.com absolutely believe in the existence of the soul, the "essence" of what we are. But do you think the technology will ever be developed that will prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that each of us is in fact made up of a body and a soul or spirit?


It depends a lot on what the soul is and does (assuming it is at all)

I believe it's standard to suppose that the soul is immaterial, so that removes a lot of avenues of research.

So what does the soul do? Does the soul make decisions? When you stick money in a vending machine and are then faced with a selection of 10 candybars, is it your soul that tells your hand which button to push?

If so, we know a great deal about the science of how messages from the brain activate the motor muscles of the body to produce action. So this would require that the soul can wiggle our brains in some way to make things happen. Descartes thought that the pineal gland was the connection between brain and soul. He was (almost certainly) wrong about this, but somehow we would need some sort of connection between the soul and the brain. In principle, we could study the interactions of the cells in a certain area of the brain and determine whether the activity of the neurons were due entirely to established laws of how neurons fire and inhibit and stimulate each other. If a soul of this type existed, we would see neurons firing 'for no reason' or 'with no material cause'. So this might be a way of establishing the existence of a soul.

Even if those tests determined nothing, all is not lost for the soul. Even if the entire activity of the body was determined by physical forces and interactions, it could still be the case that one had a soul that was 'synchronized' with its body. This is sort of like what Leibniz proposed with his monads and preestablished harmony: "[T]he soul follows its own [final causal] laws, and the body also its own [efficient causal] laws. They are fitted to each other in virtue of the pre-established harmony between all substances." This harmony was presumably ordained by God. If souls were like this, there would be no way to determine whether they exist or not - the data would be exactly the same as if our actions are the result of material interactions only.



hellohellohi -> RE: Will science ever prove the existence of the soul? (7/14/2008 2:22:18 PM)

I know of one academic who is interested in applying the idea that all information requires energy and thus would have a corresponding mass and is thus interested in weighing consciousness. His name is Gerry Nahum, and his idea is apparently to use the most powerful tools available to weigh the thought of a leech.

Anyway, to answer your question, should we consider a soul perhaps to be synonymous with "agency?" I am not entirely sure what is meant by the term.

However, if soul is agency, then the "essence" of what we are would simply be the ability to determine our own essence (disregarding the will of God in the process.) Or is something else meant by "essence" and soul? I do not understand what is meant, precisely.

In order for science to consider whether it can weigh in on the question, we ought to first formulate it precisely.



EStan -> RE: Will science ever prove the existence of the soul? (7/14/2008 2:25:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hellohellohi

I know of one academic who is interested in applying the idea that all information requires energy and thus would have a corresponding mass and is thus interested in weighing consciousness. His name is Gerry Nahum, and his idea is apparently to use the most powerful tools available to weigh the thought of a leech.

Anyway, to answer your question, should we consider a soul perhaps to be synonymous with "agency?" I am not entirely sure what is meant by the term.

However, if soul is agency, then the "essence" of what we are would simply be the ability to determine our own essence (disregarding the will of God in the process.) Or is something else meant by "essence" and soul? I do not understand what is meant, precisely.
In order for science to consider whether it can weigh in on the question, we ought to first formulate it precisely.


If my question was too vague, my apologies. For the sake of this discussion, let me state that I believe exactly what Holy Scripture says about the existence and nature of the soul.



hellohellohi -> RE: Will science ever prove the existence of the soul? (7/14/2008 2:26:55 PM)

quote:

"[T]he soul follows its own [final causal] laws, and the body also its own [efficient causal] laws. They are fitted to each other in virtue of the pre-established harmony between all substances."


This sounds like it would be consistent with my understanding of proper Christian theology -- if one can understand as disharmony as being the product of sin. Nevertheless, I suppose the question would remain of how sinful agency is able to guide the actions of the body.



gluadys -> RE: Will science ever prove the existence of the soul? (7/14/2008 4:23:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: EStan
If my question was too vague, my apologies. For the sake of this discussion, let me state that I believe exactly what Holy Scripture says about the existence and nature of the soul.


Scripture clearly speaks of the soul, so it certainly affirms its existence.

I am not so clear on what scripture says about the nature of the soul.

Is the soul immaterial? Is it immortal? Does it pre-exist the body? Is it separable from the body? Is it different from the spirit, or are "soul" and "spirit" synonymous terms?

I am not sure that scripture answers any of these questions clearly.



hellohellohi -> RE: Will science ever prove the existence of the soul? (7/14/2008 4:26:34 PM)

quote:

I believe exactly what Holy Scripture says about the existence and nature of the soul.


Scripture clearly speaks of the soul, so it certainly affirms its existence.


Could you find some scripture for me. I am sure to consider it at my leisure, but it would help a discussion if some were provided.



VJDTropical -> RE: Will science ever prove the existence of the soul? (7/14/2008 4:40:56 PM)

I don't know if this is of any help but here it is

http://tripartiteman.org/index.html



Jhud -> RE: Will science ever prove the existence of the soul? (7/14/2008 6:18:54 PM)

You might want to check out The Spiritual Brain: A Neuroscientist's Case for the Existence of the Soul by Dr. Mario Beauregard.



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