How much do you think that it is normal to lie? (Full Version)

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crissy12345 -> How much do you think that it is normal to lie? (7/14/2008 4:24:16 PM)

I read an article from a study saying that people lie an average of 1-2 times per day. It said that lying has become a way of life.
I always felt extreemly guilty about lying growing up. I lied pretty often, but probably not as often as the people in the study. I began to feel so guilty that I was worried that God wouldn't forgive me. Is that really bad for a Christian to lie that much? I was just wondering what do you think is the normal amount? I feel so bad about this.

http://psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-19970501-000033.html



mvic -> RE: How much do you think that it is normal to lie? (7/14/2008 4:39:33 PM)

I have never ever lied in my life!

Right - now I got your attention:

Sadly, you are right. Lying has become a way of life in modern society. It seems it's the only way to get on. From being economical with the truth when completing your CV to bigger and more serious lies in one's business and personal relationships - leading to cheating or even perjury.

But the fact that it happens all around us does not make it right.

There is no acceptable "normal amount" of lying. Instead we should ask: What are the real consequences of our lies? Who do they hurt? By lying in this way am I really "loving my neighbour" as He has asked me to?



LCannon -> RE: How much do you think that it is normal to lie? (7/14/2008 4:47:53 PM)

1 Timothy 1:8-"Now we know that the law is good, if any one uses it lawfully, 9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 immoral persons, sodomites, kidnapers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 in accordance with the glorious gospel of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted."

Any question how devastating lack of integrity is? That pretty well covers it. You even personal experience and the guilt it creates.



sunshine4God -> RE: How much do you think that it is normal to lie? (7/14/2008 11:34:20 PM)

I think lying is very normal but is still a sin.



bob97 -> RE: How much do you think that it is normal to lie? (7/15/2008 12:14:33 AM)

I guess the point is to live your life in such a way that you don't have anything to lie about. I think this is very possible.

Bob



PureLight -> RE: How much do you think that it is normal to lie? (7/15/2008 1:13:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bob97

I guess the point is to live your life in such a way that you don't have anything to lie about. I think this is very possible.

Bob


Yeah, definitely. I used to be a chronic liar and this took some getting used to after getting saved.



bob97 -> RE: How much do you think that it is normal to lie? (7/15/2008 1:19:34 AM)

Amen PureLight...maybe the hardest part is that little white lie that you tell to prevent from hurting someones feelings. You know like...that really looks good on you.

Bob



PureLight -> RE: How much do you think that it is normal to lie? (7/15/2008 1:35:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bob97

Amen PureLight...maybe the hardest part is that little white lie that you tell to prevent from hurting someones feelings. You know like...that really looks good on you.

Bob



This is why I use words like "interesting" or "unique". [:D]



McFatty -> RE: How much do you think that it is normal to lie? (7/15/2008 2:09:23 AM)

Of course lying is normal! Sin is normal. That's human nature. People lie as part of that human nature.

When our nature is changed by the Holy Spirit, our tendency to lie goes away too, though the habit part might take some work to break.



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: How much do you think that it is normal to lie? (7/15/2008 12:15:36 PM)

I was taught, from toddlerhood, to lie in word, action, and demeanor, yet if I'd had the capacity to tell Mother, "You are a liar, and you are teaching me to be a liar," I don't think she would have had a single inkling that this was what she was doing. Her purpose for lying and teaching us to lie was to save face, because, as Bob97 suggested, it was an effort to cover up how we lived rather than putting that same effort into changing how we lived.

So I lied. Constantly. Then Mother would be confused when I lied to her about something that was important to her! It was a vicious circle, and I became a very angry child who learned to cover that anger by trying to keep everyone in the home happy, in a desperate search for peace. Of course, this caused turmoil for me, earning me the name Skillet by the time I was about three - four years old.

So I grew up to lie my way into my first marriage. As the article says, "Dishonesty also pervades our romantic relationships". That is why I think it is very important that people go out of their way to seek complete openness in such relationships. I am glad, so glad, that I had the opportunity to be married to my first husband, but I wish he had married someone else who was worthy of him. He was a great man, and I made his life miserable, not even knowing what I was doing. It took his accidental death for me to begin to "get it."

In my present marriage, I refuse to lie. Period. I don't believe there is any such thing as the "sweet little lies" they bring up in the article. Behind every lie is an evil intention. Even the story of the wife who says, "Does this outfit make me look fat?" is, in its proverbial state, evil on the part of the wife, because in the story, she wants her husband to console her, to sooth her concept of who she really is, to lie. How much better, in real life, if the wife felt free to ask, felt free to receive the truth, and the husband did not fear the consequences of the truth.

However, (a) I do not believe that telling the truth includes telling everything. (b) I also to not think that telling the truth includes not delaying the truth.

(a) If someone asks me something that is none of their business, I will determine how much I think I want to tell them and tell them that much and no more. Sometimes, if irritated enough with their question, I will simply reply, "That is none of your business." No one, in their personal quest for information, has the right to demand all the truth from an adult, when "all the truth" is an invasion of privacy, except before law courts and enforcement.

(b) If I am planning a surprise for someone, you betcha I delay the truth!

However, when the truth is important to one, they will learn ways to stay in the truth, and they will hone their truth-telling and truth-living to a G-d-fearing art. They will go out of their way to be honest, and they will gladly take the consequences for truth-telling, because they understand the difference between those consequences and the ones of living as a practicing liar.



bob97 -> RE: How much do you think that it is normal to lie? (7/15/2008 1:28:30 PM)

My grandmother beat into my head that “it’s better to die then tell a lie” from the time that I was able to understand and it’s still strongly with me today. I mean she built some kind of force field into my system to prevent lying and it has been very effective.

She give me several other things to add to my “may not do list” among which were not to use the LORDS name in vane and to not ever call anyone a fool.

Bless her heart…she was a good Christian woman.

Bob



PrexicKehdaki -> RE: How much do you think that it is normal to lie? (7/15/2008 3:23:42 PM)

Some lying is healthy.

We would not be able to function as social creatures without our ability to lie. It's a necessary part of interactions and conversation. Face it, most people have some pretty harsh things to say.. but they don't because they can lie. It maintains order, reduces friction, and overall.. helps improve happiness. This type of social lying would be something like, "No, hun, your haircut looks great!", or saying "Tommy was never in any real danger!" to comfort someone when their son is safe but was in a risky circumstance.

Lying to yourself can sometimes be healthy as well. Sometimes we need a little extra support even if it's completely unsubstantiated. Often times, deluding ourselves literally makes the delusion come true simply due to the motivation or comfort of the lie.

And lastly, lying for safety or protection is healthy. "No sir, we aren't hiding any Jews here."


Lying that is unhealthy, counter productive, and wrong is when you're manipulating someone else for your own gain and their expense. Things like, "But I never got the third hamburger!" at a fast food restaurant when you really did. Or, "He raped me!" when you're really just trying to get back at your ex.



SomeFineDay -> RE: How much do you think that it is normal to lie? (7/15/2008 4:13:34 PM)

It's not right, though sometimes in our imperfect world there are some times where it is the way to go in order to co-exist with less that perfection/sin ect.

I used to have a problem, but through much work with God have moved away from it, though it still is a temptation.



SavedByGraceMD -> RE: How much do you think that it is normal to lie? (7/15/2008 5:16:02 PM)

To lie or not to lie, that is the question. I tend to have to agree with our atheist friend prex. Depending on circumstances, it may be necessary to lie. If it is for the greater good, Rahab protecting the spies, if I was hiding a jewish person in my cellar when the nazis came knocking, and so forth.
In these instances I see no alternative. If I feel it is wrong, I confess it as sin, and I move on.

Now on the other hand, to lie for self gain, is and always will be wrong. Even though it may seem right at the time. Like, no officer, I wasn't drinking...hey is that a pink elephant over there.....oooooh my head won't stop spinning....hey officer, you want a beer....as I slur my way into a bigger problem.

One lie, snowballs into a long line of lies, that sometimes you are never able to find your way out of.

For the Christian, lies are probably not the best option, though sometimes maybe necessary.

For the rest of the world, yes, to lie is normal, and nobody seems to care. As long as I don't get hurt, who cares how many others do.



PrexicKehdaki -> RE: How much do you think that it is normal to lie? (7/15/2008 5:46:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD

For the Christian, lies are probably not the best option, though sometimes maybe necessary.

For the rest of the world, yes, to lie is normal, and nobody seems to care. As long as I don't get hurt, who cares how many others do.


Not lying isn't some special moral unique to Christians, ya know.. [8|]



SavedByGraceMD -> RE: How much do you think that it is normal to lie? (7/15/2008 6:08:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PrexicKehdaki

quote:

ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD

For the Christian, lies are probably not the best option, though sometimes maybe necessary.

For the rest of the world, yes, to lie is normal, and nobody seems to care. As long as I don't get hurt, who cares how many others do.


Not lying isn't some special moral unique to Christians, ya know.. [8|]

Yes I do know, and that is not what I tried to imply. A lot of Christians do lie, so that is an obvious statement you made there, huh.[sm=tongue.gif]
It just isn't something we as Christians should do for no reason. The world on the other hand, while it holds many people, or maybe just one[sm=thumbsup.gif], who don't lie, it is an acceptable behavior to lie.

So now what do you have to say? Smarty pants[sm=icon_smile_idea.gif]



PrexicKehdaki -> RE: How much do you think that it is normal to lie? (7/15/2008 6:20:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD

quote:

ORIGINAL: PrexicKehdaki

quote:

ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD

For the Christian, lies are probably not the best option, though sometimes maybe necessary.

For the rest of the world, yes, to lie is normal, and nobody seems to care. As long as I don't get hurt, who cares how many others do.


Not lying isn't some special moral unique to Christians, ya know.. [8|]

Yes I do know, and that is not what I tried to imply. A lot of Christians do lie, so that is an obvious statement you made there, huh.[sm=tongue.gif]
It just isn't something we as Christians should do for no reason. The world on the other hand, while it holds many people, or maybe just one[sm=thumbsup.gif], who don't lie, it is an acceptable behavior to lie.

So now what do you have to say? Smarty pants[sm=icon_smile_idea.gif]


Uh, lol, wait.. who exactly are you saying feel it's acceptable to lie?



SavedByGraceMD -> RE: How much do you think that it is normal to lie? (7/15/2008 6:38:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PrexicKehdaki

quote:

ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD

quote:

ORIGINAL: PrexicKehdaki

quote:

ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD

For the Christian, lies are probably not the best option, though sometimes maybe necessary.

For the rest of the world, yes, to lie is normal, and nobody seems to care. As long as I don't get hurt, who cares how many others do.


Not lying isn't some special moral unique to Christians, ya know.. [8|]

Yes I do know, and that is not what I tried to imply. A lot of Christians do lie, so that is an obvious statement you made there, huh.[sm=tongue.gif]
It just isn't something we as Christians should do for no reason. The world on the other hand, while it holds many people, or maybe just one[sm=thumbsup.gif], who don't lie, it is an acceptable behavior to lie.

So now what do you have to say? Smarty pants[sm=icon_smile_idea.gif]


Uh, lol, wait.. who exactly are you saying feel it's acceptable to lie?

Atheists of course.[;)]

Non believers, or the world of flesh and sin[sm=icon_smile_evil.gif], of course. Whom did you think I meant.



PrexicKehdaki -> RE: How much do you think that it is normal to lie? (7/15/2008 7:10:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD

quote:

ORIGINAL: PrexicKehdaki

quote:

ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD

quote:

ORIGINAL: PrexicKehdaki

quote:

ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD

For the Christian, lies are probably not the best option, though sometimes maybe necessary.

For the rest of the world, yes, to lie is normal, and nobody seems to care. As long as I don't get hurt, who cares how many others do.


Not lying isn't some special moral unique to Christians, ya know.. [8|]

Yes I do know, and that is not what I tried to imply. A lot of Christians do lie, so that is an obvious statement you made there, huh.[sm=tongue.gif]
It just isn't something we as Christians should do for no reason. The world on the other hand, while it holds many people, or maybe just one[sm=thumbsup.gif], who don't lie, it is an acceptable behavior to lie.

So now what do you have to say? Smarty pants[sm=icon_smile_idea.gif]


Uh, lol, wait.. who exactly are you saying feel it's acceptable to lie?

Atheists of course.[;)]

Non believers, or the world of flesh and sin[sm=icon_smile_evil.gif], of course. Whom did you think I meant.


Oh gosh.. [8|]



SavedByGraceMD -> RE: How much do you think that it is normal to lie? (7/15/2008 7:17:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PrexicKehdaki



Oh gosh.. [8|]

Twas a joke of course, but your sense of humor seems to be lacking today[sm=popsigh.gif]



PrexicKehdaki -> RE: How much do you think that it is normal to lie? (7/15/2008 7:25:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD

quote:

ORIGINAL: PrexicKehdaki



Oh gosh.. [8|]

Twas a joke of course, but your sense of humor seems to be lacking today[sm=popsigh.gif]


lol, I know..

I was.... uh, joking too.. >.>


I've just had a frustrating day, 'm sry.. : [



SavedByGraceMD -> RE: How much do you think that it is normal to lie? (7/15/2008 7:31:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PrexicKehdaki

quote:

ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD

quote:

ORIGINAL: PrexicKehdaki



Oh gosh.. [8|]

Twas a joke of course, but your sense of humor seems to be lacking today[sm=popsigh.gif]


lol, I know..

I was.... uh, joking too.. >.>


I've just had a frustrating day, 'm sry.. : [

Ha, lol, you lol'ed. No problem, you are forgiven. I apologize also for cracking on your good sense of humor.[sm=icon_smile_super.gif][sm=redfaced.gif]

edited to add...or am I lying? Bwahahahahaha[sm=rollingeyes.gif]



PrexicKehdaki -> RE: How much do you think that it is normal to lie? (7/15/2008 9:39:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD

quote:

ORIGINAL: PrexicKehdaki

quote:

ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD

quote:

ORIGINAL: PrexicKehdaki



Oh gosh.. [8|]

Twas a joke of course, but your sense of humor seems to be lacking today[sm=popsigh.gif]


lol, I know..

I was.... uh, joking too.. >.>


I've just had a frustrating day, 'm sry.. : [

Ha, lol, you lol'ed. No problem, you are forgiven. I apologize also for cracking on your good sense of humor.[sm=icon_smile_super.gif][sm=redfaced.gif]

edited to add...or am I lying? Bwahahahahaha[sm=rollingeyes.gif]


lol.. rolley eyes..



BibleL7 -> RE: How much do you think that it is normal to lie? (7/15/2008 11:28:33 PM)

Not normal to lie for some. I had a belt taken to me if i lied as a child and found it did not pay to do so. As for so called little white lies nopers. In keeping secrets is simply "I am not permitted to discuss the situation." or "I cant talk about it" Why not tell someone you dont wish to discuss something. So actually is not need to lie. And I have felt this way when I was an atheist as well as Christian yet would say that Christians should avoid it more than the world. Pray about things before you open your mouth to speak. As for the world lies are a normal thing to most and to some point I would not expect truth from world.



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: How much do you think that it is normal to lie? (7/15/2008 11:46:11 PM)

Whenever we get on the subject of lying/honesty, Jews in the attic, the midwives of Israel while in Egypt, and Rahav come up. I am not sure why the utmost idiosyncrasies of the Bible and/or of 20th century life are always brought up as what we should measure common life by. It's a bit silly, in my opinion, to measure common life-circumstances by the most unusual biblical and/or life-circumstances.

Would I lie to protect endangered people in hiding? If I couldn't get out of it some other way, I fear I would, but I would not be proud of it, and I would immediately repent. I am just not sure how one repents of planned, purposeful lying.

I so disagree that any lying is healthy.

Why tell someone that they look good in something they don't look good in? By doing so, you willingly take part in making them look foolish. They are never fool in the end.

And the last person I would ever intend to lie to is myself. I would be a complete fool to believe my own lie.

The Bible says that the truth will set us free. An ancient proverb says something like "Truth is gold that fears no fire." And a Jewish proverb says that "A half-truth is a whole lie."



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