McCain the new "Flip-Flopper" (Full Version)

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Evangel70 -> McCain the new "Flip-Flopper" (7/14/2008 7:31:41 PM)

Given McCain's long history of flip-flopping on issues, do you think it's wise for the McCain campaign to use "flip-flopping" as an issue?

Just take a peak at McCain's Flip-Flopping History:

* McCain was against Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy before he was for them.

* McCain said in 2005 that he opposed the tax cuts because they were “too tilted to the wealthy.” By 2007, he denied ever having said this, and falsely argued that he opposed the cuts because of increased government spending.

* McCain thought Bush’s warrantless-wiretap program circumvented the law; now he believes the opposite.

* McCain believed the U.S. should engage in diplomacy with Hamas. Now he believes the opposite.

* McCain has repeatedly said it’s a dangerous mistake to tell the “enemy” when U.S. troops would be out of Iraq. In May, McCain announced that most American troops would be home from Iraq by 2013.

* McCain went from saying gay marriage should be allowed, to saying gay marriage shouldn’t be allowed.

* John McCain initially argued that economics is not an area of expertise for him, saying, “I’m going to be honest: I know a lot less about economics than I do about military and foreign policy issues; I still need to be educated,” and “The issue of economics is not something I’ve understood as well as I should.” He now falsely denies ever having made these remarks and insists that he has a “very strong” understanding of economics.

* He opposed indefinite detention of terrorist suspects. When the Supreme Court reached the same conclusion, he called it “one of the worst decisions in the history of this country.”

* In April, McCain promised voters that he would secure the borders “before proceeding to other reform measures.” Two months later, he abandoned his public pledge, pretended that he’d never made the promise in the first place, and vowed that a comprehensive immigration reform policy has always been, and would always be, his “top priority.”

* McCain supported the moratorium on coastal drilling ; now he’s against it.

More/Details Here

Is it o.k. for a candidate to change his mind or position on an issue or should a candidate position be set in stone?



Jhud -> RE: McCain the new "Flip-Flopper" (7/14/2008 8:35:20 PM)

quote:

Is it o.k. for a candidate to change his mind or position on an issue or should a candidate position be set in stone?


I think you have once again faithfully contributed to the growing refuse heap of worthless political garbage, to be found in heaps on both sides of this election.



Evangel70 -> RE: McCain the new "Flip-Flopper" (7/15/2008 10:49:24 AM)

quote:

I think you have once again faithfully contributed to the growing refuse heap of worthless political garbage, to be found in heaps on both sides of this election.


Funny how you didn't feel this way when you were contributing to the 400 Obama-bashing threads...[8D]

Is your argument that McCain has NOT flip-flopped for political posturing or are you just upset about the fact that McCain is being called on his hypocracy. Do you not believe that a candidate's character is important?



Jhud -> RE: McCain the new "Flip-Flopper" (7/15/2008 10:58:46 AM)

quote:

Funny how you didn't feel this way when you were contributing to the 400 Obama-bashing threads....


Actually, with the exception of a few direct issue threads which I started, I have contributed very little to any of those threads - and certainly with more substance than this

quote:

Is your argument that McCain has NOT flip-flopped for political posturing or are you just upset about the fact that McCain is being called on his hypocracy. Do you not believe that a candidate's character is important?


I certainly believe a candidates character is important; a vague lengthy list drawn from a left wing blog however is not a particularly good measue of 'character'.



blessedinnyc -> RE: McCain the new "Flip-Flopper" (7/15/2008 12:26:34 PM)

Gaaah!!! Does it really matter?

McCain isn't necessarily Bush. All this means is that the former maverick can't attack Obama as a flip flopper.

If your views change because various events have convinced you the situation is different, I don't think it shows anything about your character. That seems to at least be the explanation on McCain's position on the tax cuts. Now, I disagree with him- I think that Iraq war spending has gotten us into real trouble and we need to reverse the tax cuts- but I don't fault his character.

The problem is when flip-floppery is a symptom of pandering (Something, sadly, that John Kerry engaged in much less than Bush). And since both candidates are equally good at it, I'm going to vote for the candidate that I think will have the better policies over the next four years. At this time, it looks like Obama, but if it looks like Iraq or Iran become non-issues, it's possible that could change.



Jhud -> RE: McCain the new "Flip-Flopper" (7/15/2008 12:48:17 PM)

I agree wholeheartedly blessed, you are exactly right.

Except of course for the little thingy at the end about who has the better policies - but other than that, spot on.



EStan -> RE: McCain the new "Flip-Flopper" (7/15/2008 1:08:01 PM)

Just because something seems right (or wrong) to you, in your role as Senator - with respect to those constituents you serve, who elected you - doesn't necessarily mean that view must never change, when you're running for the office of President. We all sometimes change our view on something, when more information becomes available.

And for the record, I never called Kerry a "flip-flopper" back in '04. Just a pro-choice liberal who wanted to raise my taxes [8D]



SavedByGraceMD -> RE: McCain the new "Flip-Flopper" (7/15/2008 3:58:20 PM)

All politicians are flip floppers. Whatever they say they say to get votes.



SovereignIsHe -> RE: McCain the new "Flip-Flopper" (7/15/2008 8:36:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evangel70

Funny how you didn't feel this way when you were contributing to the 400 Obama-bashing threads...[8D]




Without a doubt had this forum been around in the day someone would have called Gen. Patton a Nazi basher...

John



rlj -> RE: McCain the new "Flip-Flopper" (7/16/2008 9:21:12 AM)

quote:

I think you have once again faithfully contributed to the growing refuse heap of worthless political garbage, to be found in heaps on both sides of this election.


That pretty much sums up 21st century American Politics. [&:] That was a very beautiful and eloquent quote. :D (Yours not mine)



Evangel70 -> RE: McCain the new "Flip-Flopper" (7/16/2008 10:52:18 AM)

quote:

Just because something seems right (or wrong) to you, in your role as Senator - with respect to those constituents you serve, who elected you - doesn't necessarily mean that view must never change, when you're running for the office of President. We all sometimes change our view on something, when more information becomes available.


I totally agree. We have already seen the disasters of holding on your POV no matter what the evidence says with Bush administration. I would hope that a political leader is willing to change their mind when presented with new information.

However, claiming that your position has changed simply to pander to a political constituancy is simply flip-flopping.



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