So much for the Law Enforcement approach to Terrorism (Full Version)

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freakofnature -> So much for the Law Enforcement approach to Terrorism (7/17/2008 2:16:45 PM)

Madrid bomber acquited the Madrid bombing mastermind and cleared 4 others. This is what happens when you let terrorism become a law enforcement problem.

Unfortunate



mapachito13 -> RE: So much for the Law Enforcement approach to Terrorism (7/17/2008 2:59:04 PM)

But 16 convictions were upheld. Also the mastermind is in jail in Italy.

"But it absolved three of the top suspects, including Mr. Osman. He was absolved on the grounds that he was already serving a sentence in Italy for the same crime."

So only four small fish actually got out of jail.

"The four men whose convictions were quashed were Basel Ghalyoun, Mouhannad Almallah Dabas, Abdelilah el Fadual al Akil and Raúl González. They had been convicted to terms of 5 to 12 years on lesser offenses.

Another convicted mastermind, Othman el Gnaoui, was cleared of a lesser charge of falsification of an official document but remained in jail on more serious charges of helping to transport the explosives used in the attacks."

Rule of law=imperfect
Rule of God=perfect
But we'll have to wait until He comes again before we can enjoy the perfect. So until then I would rather live under the rule of law than the rule of the military.



cow451 -> RE: So much for the Law Enforcement approach to Terrorism (7/17/2008 3:02:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: freakofnature

Madrid bomber acquited the Madrid bombing mastermind and cleared 4 others. This is what happens when you let terrorism become a law enforcement problem.

Unfortunate


Perhaps you should consider the whole story:

In an emotional, five-month trial ending last October and involving 50 lawyers and 350 witnesses, the Spanish high court, the Audiencia Nacional, convicted 21 defendants in connection with the rail bombings. But it absolved three of the top suspects, including Mr. Osman. He was absolved on the grounds that he was already serving a sentence in Italy for the same crime.

There is no perfect way to fight the GWOT. The law enforcement efforts serve to reinforce the difference between the good guys and the bad guys. Free nations have always used legal proceedings to deal with acts of terrorism.

The alternative in this case would have been for Spain to invade Morocco.



freakofnature -> RE: So much for the Law Enforcement approach to Terrorism (7/17/2008 3:07:51 PM)

quote:

The alternative in this case would have been for Spain to invade Morocco.


And?

However, I don't care where else some terrorist is serving his sentence, it is just as well that he be tried in the country whereas he is charged! It is not any different than saying okay Mexico, since you have (insert drug lord name here)... we here in America don't need to worry about convicting XXXX for the mass murder that happened here.



fiat_lux -> RE: So much for the Law Enforcement approach to Terrorism (7/17/2008 3:09:09 PM)

quote:

Unfortunate

Well, first of all, I'm not sure what you'd rather be done here. Ought they to be taken out back and shot? If someone can't be convicted, then how do you know they were even a terrorist in the first place? Or is innocence not an important part of this problem of yours?

Also, I think you're exaggerating the facts here. In the main case - Osman - the guy's already in jail, just in another country, and he doesn't seem to be being released from there. And in at least one case, someone who was originally acquitted had that decision reversed and has now been found guilty.

So I'm not sure this is the resounding defeat for your cause that you seem to think it is.



stamper_ben -> RE: So much for the Law Enforcement approach to Terrorism (7/17/2008 3:10:19 PM)

quote:

The alternative in this case would have been for Spain to invade Morocco.
Now there's an idea![sm=icon_smile_idea.gif]



mapachito13 -> RE: So much for the Law Enforcement approach to Terrorism (7/17/2008 3:22:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: freakofnature

However, I don't care where else some terrorist is serving his sentence, it is just as well that he be tried in the country whereas he is charged! It is not any different than saying okay Mexico, since you have (insert drug lord name here)... we here in America don't need to worry about convicting XXXX for the mass murder that happened here.


Spain has a different system of due process and different laws than we do! It's as simple as that!

quote:

quote:ORIGINAL: stamper_ben

quote:

The alternative in this case would have been for Spain to invade Morocco.
Now there's an idea!


What made me laugh when I read this (and I am not making a personal attack OK) is that directly below in your signature it says, "We will be known as His by the love we show one another." I hope you can appreciate the irony of those two statements together![:D]



galadriel2 -> RE: So much for the Law Enforcement approach to Terrorism (7/17/2008 3:29:28 PM)

I think we should keep it as a civilian case since they are civilians. I don't think we should deal with the people terrorizing other people as soldiers because that isn't what they are. They aren't employed by a government in any official capacity. It seems to me that Pres. Reagan dealt with terror as a law enforcement issue and they did a really good job at dealing with it - I think it was in conjunction with Jordan on a certain group/case while he was President.

God bless,
Galadriel2



freakofnature -> RE: So much for the Law Enforcement approach to Terrorism (7/17/2008 3:33:13 PM)

quote:

Spain has a different system of due process and different laws than we do! It's as simple as that!


Now look, I know I missed a day (or 10) of world history but you mean to tell me that the rest of the world doesn't have a justice system like ours... HUH! That is a bummer... /sarc off

Thanks tho mapachito for pointing out, in a not so condesending way, that other justice systems just don't match that of America. But that is all the more reason that the GWOT has to be maintained and won. Because you just don't know whether other countries are going to keep up there end of the bargain.

Otherwise, is it too much to ask that for the victims in Spain to get there day in court? For those victims to face their murderous enemies so that they may get some of their own justice. What about those who died? Do they not deserve a day in court???



stamper_ben -> RE: So much for the Law Enforcement approach to Terrorism (7/17/2008 3:46:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mapachito13

quote:

quote:ORIGINAL: stamper_ben

quote:

The alternative in this case would have been for Spain to invade Morocco.
Now there's an idea!


What made me laugh when I read this (and I am not making a personal attack OK) is that directly below in your signature it says, "We will be known as His by the love we show one another." I hope you can appreciate the irony of those two statements together![:D]

I can now rest knowing my job is done.[8D]



mapachito13 -> RE: So much for the Law Enforcement approach to Terrorism (7/17/2008 3:51:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: freakofnature

quote:

Spain has a different system of due process and different laws than we do! It's as simple as that!


Now look, I know I missed a day (or 10) of world history but you mean to tell me that the rest of the world doesn't have a justice system like ours... HUH! That is a bummer... /sarc off

Thanks tho mapachito for pointing out, in a not so condesending way, that other justice systems just don't match that of America. But that is all the more reason that the GWOT has to be maintained and won. Because you just don't know whether other countries are going to keep up there end of the bargain.

Otherwise, is it too much to ask that for the victims in Spain to get there day in court? For those victims to face their murderous enemies so that they may get some of their own justice. What about those who died? Do they not deserve a day in court???


Having their day in court and the WOT seem not to agree with each other (ie Gitmo)! And maybe the LEOS and prosecutors in Spain should take the brunt of the blame for the "failure" of the Spanish justice system. Ours isn't perfect either remember Marsha Clarke and Chris Darden?

But I'd still put my faith in the rule of law rather than the rule of the military!



freakofnature -> RE: So much for the Law Enforcement approach to Terrorism (7/17/2008 3:56:29 PM)

quote:

Ours isn't perfect either remember Marsha Clarke and Chris Darden?


If you keep making excellent points like this I will have to consult you more often on legal matters... These two clowns are exactly why the court system can not handle issues regarding terrorism... Thanks for helping my efforts.



mapachito13 -> RE: So much for the Law Enforcement approach to Terrorism (7/17/2008 5:23:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: freakofnature

quote:

Ours isn't perfect either remember Marsha Clarke and Chris Darden?


If you keep making excellent points like this I will have to consult you more often on legal matters... These two clowns are exactly why the court system can not handle issues regarding terrorism... Thanks for helping my efforts.


Thanks. Coming from someone who has made some intelligent well thought out points as well, I take that as a wonderful compliment!



cow451 -> RE: So much for the Law Enforcement approach to Terrorism (7/17/2008 5:47:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: freakofnature

quote:

Ours isn't perfect either remember Marsha Clarke and Chris Darden?


If you keep making excellent points like this I will have to consult you more often on legal matters... These two clowns are exactly why the court system can not handle issues regarding terrorism... Thanks for helping my efforts.

There are reasons why those two aren't federal prosecutors.



mapachito13 -> RE: So much for the Law Enforcement approach to Terrorism (7/17/2008 10:11:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cow451

quote:

ORIGINAL: freakofnature

quote:

Ours isn't perfect either remember Marsha Clarke and Chris Darden?


If you keep making excellent points like this I will have to consult you more often on legal matters... These two clowns are exactly why the court system can not handle issues regarding terrorism... Thanks for helping my efforts.

There are reasons why those two aren't federal prosecutors.


And some federal prosecutors don't care about justice, just the amount of convictions they can get! Or how they can promote the creation of a police state (ie Ashcroft).



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