quote:

ORIGINAL: manichunter

Why so many theologies?

quote:

ORIGINAL: URForgiven

quote:

ORIGINAL: manichunter

Why so many theologies?

Because satan is more cunning than any man, and he has used Gods Word to divide, as he has been doing since he first chose to rebel. The very Word that is our weapon against him, is the very thing he uses as a weapon against us.

When man is not willing to let the Truth of Gods Word take them wherever it will, then they are standing on their own understanding and tradition. Satan's weapon is the lie, and if one is not willing to give up the lie that the Truth has exposed, then they are in the devils playground. No matter how sure they may feel about their theology.

Peace

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesP
That is very true. People frequently make the mistake of constructing a denomination founded upon non-salvic disagreements. If the bible does not state a position, then do not make it the pivotal construct that separates you from the rest of the flock. Denominations have been founded upon baptismal process, eschatological perspective, etc.

quote:

ORIGINAL: URForgiven

quote:

ORIGINAL: manichunter

Why so many theologies?

Because satan is more cunning than any man, and he has used Gods Word to divide, as he has been doing since he first chose to rebel. The very Word that is our weapon against him, is the very thing he uses as a weapon against us.

When man is not willing to let the Truth of Gods Word take them wherever it will, then they are standing on their own understanding and tradition. Satan's weapon is the lie, and if one is not willing to give up the lie that the Truth has exposed, then they are in the devils playground. No matter how sure they may feel about their theology.

Peace

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesP
That is very true. People frequently make the mistake of constructing a denomination founded upon non-salvic disagreements. If the bible does not state a position, then do not make it the pivotal construct that separates you from the rest of the flock. Denominations have been founded upon baptismal process, eschatological perspective, etc.

Most denominations are in agreement on things salvic, and that is about all that matters anyway.

Sprinkled, dunked, gifts, no gifts, some gifts, style of worship, music, no music, dress codes, no dress codes, do's and don't list, or no do's and don't list are the things most denominations are about.

Personally, I do not consider those who agree on things salvic as "separate", but just a little different in style and accessories.

I am Pentecostal Holiness, but have held many revivals and/or teaching services in SBC, AG, FW Baptist, Independent Baptist etc. etc. with no problems. I respect their varience on things non salvic when I am there, and they respect mine when they visit our Church.

Thanks
RC

quote:

ORIGINAL: McFatty

quote:

ORIGINAL: URForgiven

quote:

ORIGINAL: manichunter

Why so many theologies?

Because satan is more cunning than any man, and he has used Gods Word to divide, as he has been doing since he first chose to rebel. The very Word that is our weapon against him, is the very thing he uses as a weapon against us.

When man is not willing to let the Truth of Gods Word take them wherever it will, then they are standing on their own understanding and tradition. Satan's weapon is the lie, and if one is not willing to give up the lie that the Truth has exposed, then they are in the devils playground. No matter how sure they may feel about their theology.

Peace

I'm not necessarily taking an opposite position, but do you have citations from the Bible to back up Satan having so much power of Christian people, using lies as weapons and being almost infinitely cunning? I just don't remember reading about that in the Bible, though I might have overlooked it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: manichunter

Why so many theologies?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why don't Christians have the same theology?

What is the matter? I believe it is carnality. I believe carnality has been disguising itself as spirit, hence every man is right in his own eyes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: manichunter

Why so many theologies?

Why don't Christians have the same theology?

What is the matter? I believe it is carnality. I believe carnality has been disguising itself as spirit, hence every man is right in his own eyes.

quote:

HOW GOD SPEAKS TO US


As from the first, God speaks to his Church through the Bible and through sacred Tradition. To make sure we understand him, he guides the Church’s teaching authority—the magisterium—so it always interprets the Bible and Tradition accurately. This is the gift of infallibility.

Like the three legs on a stool, the Bible, Tradition, and the magisterium are all necessary for the stability of the Church and to guarantee sound doctrine.

Sacred Tradition (CCC 75–83)
Sacred Tradition should not be confused with mere traditions of men, which are more commonly called customs or disciplines. Jesus sometimes condemned customs or disciplines, but only if they were contrary to God’s commands (Mark 7:8). He never condemned sacred Tradition, and he didn’t even condemn all human tradition.

Sacred Tradition and the Bible are not different or competing revelations. They are two ways that the Church hands on the gospel. Apostolic teachings such as the Trinity, infant baptism, the inerrancy of the Bible, purgatory, and Mary’s perpetual virginity have been most clearly taught through Tradition, although they are also implicitly present in (and not contrary to) the Bible. The Bible itself tells us to hold fast to Tradition, whether it comes to us in written or oral form (2 Thess. 2:15, 1 Cor. 11:2).

Sacred Tradition should not be confused with customs and disciplines, such as the rosary, priestly celibacy, and not eating meat on Fridays in Lent. These are good and helpful things, but they are not doctrines. Sacred Tradition preserves doctrines first taught by Jesus to the apostles and later passed down to us through the apostles’ successors, the bishops.

Scripture (CCC 101–141)
Scripture, by which we mean the Old and New Testaments, was inspired by God (2 Tim. 3:16). The Holy Spirit guided the biblical authors to write what he wanted them to write. Since God is the principal author of the Bible, and since God is truth itself (John 14:6) and cannot teach anything untrue, the Bible is free from all error in everything it asserts to be true.

Some Christians claim, "The Bible is all I need," but this notion is not taught in the Bible itself. In fact, the Bible teaches the contrary idea (2 Pet. 1:20–21, 3:15–16). The "Bible alone" theory was not believed by anyone in the early Church.

It is new, having arisen only in the 1500s during the Protestant Reformation. The theory is a "tradition of men" that nullifies the Word of God, distorts the true role of the Bible, and undermines the authority of the Church Jesus established (Mark 7:1–8).

Although popular with many "Bible Christian" churches, the "Bible alone" theory simply does not work in practice. Historical experience disproves it. Each year we see additional splintering among "Bible-believing" religions.

Today there are tens of thousands of competing denominations, each insisting its interpretation of the Bible is the correct one. The resulting divisions have caused untold confusion among millions of sincere but misled Christians.

Just open up the Yellow Pages of your telephone book and see how many different denominations are listed, each claiming to go by the "Bible alone," but no two of them agreeing on exactly what the Bible means.

We know this for sure: The Holy Spirit cannot be the author of this confusion (1 Cor. 14:33). God cannot lead people to contradictory beliefs because his truth is one. The conclusion? The "Bible alone" theory must be false.

The Magisterium (CCC 85–87, 888–892)
Together the pope and the bishops form the teaching authority of the Church, which is called the magisterium (from the Latin for "teacher"). The magisterium, guided and protected from error by the Holy Spirit, gives us certainty in matters of doctrine. The Church is the custodian of the Bible and faithfully and accurately proclaims its message, a task which God has empowered it to do.

Keep in mind that the Church came before the New Testament, not the New Testament before the Church. Divinely-inspired members of the Church wrote the books of the New Testament, just as divinely-inspired writers had written the Old Testament, and the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit to guard and interpret the entire Bible, both Old and New Testaments.

Such an official interpreter is absolutely necessary if we are to understand the Bible properly. (We all know what the Constitution says, but we still need a Supreme Court to interpret what it means.)

The magisterium is infallible when it teaches officially because Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit to guide the apostles and their successors "into all truth" (John 16:12–13).

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheCatholicCrusader
Those who are humble enough to say "I could be wrong" and submit to the teaching authority of the Church lend themselves to unity. (No offense intended.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheCatholicCrusader
Those who are humble enough to say "I could be wrong" and submit to the teaching authority of the Church lend themselves to unity. (No offense intended.)

That is unless "The Church" has gotten off base and is wrong.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheCatholicCrusader

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheCatholicCrusader
Those who are humble enough to say "I could be wrong" and submit to the teaching authority of the Church lend themselves to unity. (No offense intended.)

That is unless "The Church" has gotten off base and is wrong.

Jesus promised that would not happen. I trust Jesus.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrFribbles

I don't see why so many people have a problem with denominations. As some on this thread have said, as long as the teachings on salvation, which are clear as crystal in Scripture, are not compromised, then where's the problem?

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheCatholicCrusader

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheCatholicCrusader
Those who are humble enough to say "I could be wrong" and submit to the teaching authority of the Church lend themselves to unity. (No offense intended.)

That is unless "The Church" has gotten off base and is wrong.

Jesus promised that would not happen. I trust Jesus.

Are you so sure that Jesus was referring to the Magistrum and not the Church universal?

Thanks
RC

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lurker
He said He was founding a Church. It seems natural that there'd be a sort of leadership organization to keep things in check. And since He didn't promise only part of His Church would prevail, it seems to make sense to believe that the leadership organization, aka Magisterium, would be included.

quote:

ORIGINAL: manichunter

Here is the riddle. Why would the Lord come in person to establish a new spiritual people (Israel) and not leave them a theology and doctrine. According to the Second Covenant Scripture, Jesus did leave His people with one theology and doctrine straight from His mouth. So how did we go from one theology that was again given by God Himself to mutltiple and different theologies? I believe carnality is at work again and everyone is right in their own eyes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: manichunter

One thing I find amazing is that the Lord left the natural nation of Israel with an established theology and doctrine. He only gave them one theology. It was evident that they got off course a few times by people doing right in their own eyes. They went apostate because they got away from the theology God gave them. Jesus revealed to the Pharisees and Sadducees that carnality was at the root of their factionalism and different theologies.



Here is the riddle. Why would the Lord come in person to establish a new spiritual people (Israel) and not leave them a theology and doctrine. According to the Second Covenant Scripture, Jesus did leave His people with one theology and doctrine straight from His mouth. So how did we go from one theology that was again given by God Himself to mutltiple and different theologies? I believe carnality is at work again and everyone is right in their own eyes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheCatholicCrusader

quote:

ORIGINAL: manichunter

Why so many theologies?

Why don't Christians have the same theology?

What is the matter? I believe it is carnality. I believe carnality has been disguising itself as spirit, hence every man is right in his own eyes.

I believe it is lack of humility. People don't want to humble themselves to authority. People think they know best when reading the Bible, "hence every man is right in his own eyes". As long as some Christians reject a single teaching authority, there will be sects and multiple conflicting doctrines. The only way you can have one set of doctrines is if there is one authority who can say "Thus sayeth the Lord" and make their teaching binding.

Those who read the Bible for themeselves and pass their personal interpretations on to others perpetuate the problem (in my personal opinion). Those who are humble enough to say "I could be wrong" and submit to the teaching authority of the Church lend themselves to unity. (No offense intended.)

quote:

HOW GOD SPEAKS TO US


As from the first, God speaks to his Church through the Bible and through sacred Tradition. To make sure we understand him, he guides the Church’s teaching authority—the magisterium—so it always interprets the Bible and Tradition accurately. This is the gift of infallibility.

Like the three legs on a stool, the Bible, Tradition, and the magisterium are all necessary for the stability of the Church and to guarantee sound doctrine.

Sacred Tradition (CCC 75–83)
Sacred Tradition should not be confused with mere traditions of men, which are more commonly called customs or disciplines. Jesus sometimes condemned customs or disciplines, but only if they were contrary to God’s commands (Mark 7:8). He never condemned sacred Tradition, and he didn’t even condemn all human tradition.

Sacred Tradition and the Bible are not different or competing revelations. They are two ways that the Church hands on the gospel. Apostolic teachings such as the Trinity, infant baptism, the inerrancy of the Bible, purgatory, and Mary’s perpetual virginity have been most clearly taught through Tradition, although they are also implicitly present in (and not contrary to) the Bible. The Bible itself tells us to hold fast to Tradition, whether it comes to us in written or oral form (2 Thess. 2:15, 1 Cor. 11:2).

Sacred Tradition should not be confused with customs and disciplines, such as the rosary, priestly celibacy, and not eating meat on Fridays in Lent. These are good and helpful things, but they are not doctrines. Sacred Tradition preserves doctrines first taught by Jesus to the apostles and later passed down to us through the apostles’ successors, the bishops.

Scripture (CCC 101–141)
Scripture, by which we mean the Old and New Testaments, was inspired by God (2 Tim. 3:16). The Holy Spirit guided the biblical authors to write what he wanted them to write. Since God is the principal author of the Bible, and since God is truth itself (John 14:6) and cannot teach anything untrue, the Bible is free from all error in everything it asserts to be true.

Some Christians claim, "The Bible is all I need," but this notion is not taught in the Bible itself. In fact, the Bible teaches the contrary idea (2 Pet. 1:20–21, 3:15–16). The "Bible alone" theory was not believed by anyone in the early Church.

It is new, having arisen only in the 1500s during the Protestant Reformation. The theory is a "tradition of men" that nullifies the Word of God, distorts the true role of the Bible, and undermines the authority of the Church Jesus established (Mark 7:1–8).

Although popular with many "Bible Christian" churches, the "Bible alone" theory simply does not work in practice. Historical experience disproves it. Each year we see additional splintering among "Bible-believing" religions.

Today there are tens of thousands of competing denominations, each insisting its interpretation of the Bible is the correct one. The resulting divisions have caused untold confusion among millions of sincere but misled Christians.

Just open up the Yellow Pages of your telephone book and see how many different denominations are listed, each claiming to go by the "Bible alone," but no two of them agreeing on exactly what the Bible means.

We know this for sure: The Holy Spirit cannot be the author of this confusion (1 Cor. 14:33). God cannot lead people to contradictory beliefs because his truth is one. The conclusion? The "Bible alone" theory must be false.

The Magisterium (CCC 85–87, 888–892)
Together the pope and the bishops form the teaching authority of the Church, which is called the magisterium (from the Latin for "teacher"). The magisterium, guided and protected from error by the Holy Spirit, gives us certainty in matters of doctrine. The Church is the custodian of the Bible and faithfully and accurately proclaims its message, a task which God has empowered it to do.

Keep in mind that the Church came before the New Testament, not the New Testament before the Church. Divinely-inspired members of the Church wrote the books of the New Testament, just as divinely-inspired writers had written the Old Testament, and the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit to guard and interpret the entire Bible, both Old and New Testaments.

Such an official interpreter is absolutely necessary if we are to understand the Bible properly. (We all know what the Constitution says, but we still need a Supreme Court to interpret what it means.)

The magisterium is infallible when it teaches officially because Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit to guide the apostles and their successors "into all truth" (John 16:12–13).

source:
http://www.catholic.com/library/Pillar.asp

quote:

I don't see why so many people have a problem with denominations. As some on this thread have said, as long as the teachings on salvation, which are clear as crystal in Scripture, are not compromised, then where's the problem?

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lurker
He said He was founding a Church. It seems natural that there'd be a sort of leadership organization to keep things in check. And since He didn't promise only part of His Church would prevail, it seems to make sense to believe that the leadership organization, aka Magisterium, would be included.

The point being that Christ did not set up the Magisterium that rules the roost in the RCC today; man did.

Is it the Catholic Church and the Magistrum the Church or is the EOC and thier ruling Bishops the Church, or are all true Believers in Christ actually the Chuch?

I will cast my vote for the latter.

Thanks
RC

edited for spelling