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RE: Yahwah - 7/31/2008 12:52:28 PM
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MichaelTheeArchAngel
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Your info does not align with mine. So that we can be on the same page; what is your source?
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel
You are going by what your Strongs Concordance says. Try taking a look at the NIV Exhaustive Concordance.
Clearly you didn't bother to read my post! I did not use Strong's because I have far better references than either the Strong's or the NIV Exhaustive Concordance.
Question: There are only about 20 references in the entire bible where 'eheyeh' (I AM) is used in the exact same form as it is in the verse you quoted; can you provide a reference from any English translation that translates just one of these references as "I Live" or "I will Live"
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RE: Yahwah - 7/31/2008 1:12:37 PM
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MichaelTheeArchAngel
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Odeliya
Michael , please, explain if possible, what is the goal? As others said, there are many names to God, you seem to be OK with that.
The goal is to share with Christians the correct "personal" name of God. God has many name titles , but only one personal name; and that name is Yahwah.
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RE: Yahwah - 7/31/2008 1:42:55 PM
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Kath
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That's the third time you've posted the link, you don't need to post it again
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RE: Yahwah - 7/31/2008 3:17:25 PM
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Restored_Heart
Posts: 914
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quote:
benelchi:
Do you really believe that these tools will help you understand the original language better than those who translated your bible into English? Exhaustive Concordances, Bible Dictionaries, etc... are all really good tools, but an invalid interpretation is often the result when you do not understand the limits of these tools. When you come to the conclusion that your bible has been mistranslated, check a few different English versions, and if they all are in agreement realize that it is your knowledge about the original language that is in error and not the translation in your English bible.
Here is an example of the limits of an exhaustive concordance: In Strong's every reference to HYH in any construction and conjugation references the single entry (i.e. one single Strong's number); however, in my Even-Shoshan exhaustive concordance there are approximately 120 different forms of HYH listed. In Hebrew every verb has 7 different constructions that represent the active, passive, intensive, intensive passive, causative, causative passive, and reflexive. And each verb is conjugated into about 30+ different forms in each construction representing perfect, imperfect, present participle, imperative, gerund, and each "tense" has a first person, second person, third person, in both the masculine and feminine, and singular and plural. Each of these forms significantly affects the interpretation of the passage, but these are all completely hidden to the user of a Strong's exhaustive Concordance.
Benelchi is a pastor that is quite well versed in Hebrew and Greek, and he even answered you in this paragraph as to which Exhaustive Concordance he uses, but the key is - he knows to use multiple sources...
_____________________________
"Ya mom, I got to see "Some Italian guy" in concert..."
Some Italian guy? (Carman) :p
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RE: Yahwah - 7/31/2008 3:27:29 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 2911
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From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel
Your info does not align with mine. So that we can be on the same page; what is your source?
Brown-Driver-Briggs for the 'qal' construction: "fall out, come to pass, become, be"
New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology & Exegesis vol 1: "As the second most common vb. in the OT, hyh occurs over 3600x, in the q. stem all but 20x (where it appears as ni.) For a book by book statistical analysis, see THAT 1:477:78. Its primary meanings are "be, exist" (what has come into being) and become, happen" (what is coming into being), although its specific nuance varies when it is juxtaposed with certain prepositions or employed in certain theological expressions."
Langenscheidt's Pocket Hebrew Dictionary to the Old Testament for the 'qal' construction: "to be, to exist; to become, to come to pass."
< Message edited by benelchi -- 7/31/2008 3:37:59 PM >
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RE: Yahwah - 7/31/2008 3:31:04 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 2911
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From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Restored_Heart
Benelchi is a pastor that is quite well versed in Hebrew and Greek, and he even answered you in this paragraph as to which Exhaustive Concordance he uses, but the key is - he knows to use multiple sources...
Correction:
I did spend several years studying at the local bible college, and continued my Hebrew studies through the graduate level at the local state university; however, I am not a pastor, and I am still struggling quite a bit with Greek (I have quite a ways to go before I am well versed in Greek).
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RE: Yahwah - 7/31/2008 4:30:50 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3605
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From: OKLAHOMA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Restored_Heart
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
ORIGINAL: Restored_Heart
Benelchi is a pastor that is quite well versed in Hebrew and Greek, and he even answered you in this paragraph as to which Exhaustive Concordance he uses, but the key is - he knows to use multiple sources...
Correction:
I did spend several years studying at the local bible college, and continued my Hebrew studies through the graduate level at the local state university; however, I am not a pastor, and I am still struggling quite a bit with Greek (I have quite a ways to go before I am well versed in Greek).
Thanks.... you come across well...
You're heads and shoulders above some of in the the meanings of most things.... 
Ditto.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Yahwah - 7/31/2008 5:10:53 PM
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MichaelTheeArchAngel
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
The Hebrew word "hayah" translates as "The Living." Yahwah is Lifes Begining.
I agree with you. God said to call Him Yahwah for all time. He is "The Living" God. The words "I am" is an interpretation not a translation.
Yahwah reveals His name to Moses
Exodus 3:13-15.
13 And Moses said to Elohiym, “Suppose I go to the siblings of the Israelites and say to them, 'The Elohiym of your forefathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is His name?' What shall I say to them?” (Elohiym means, “God of The Living.”) It can also be translated as “god-s of the living” or “god-s of life,” for those who have life immortal.
14 And Elohiym said to Moses, “The Living that Lives. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'The Living has sent me to you.” (HaYah) in the ancient Semitic language means: The Living, or The Life.)
15 And Elohiym also said to Moses, “Say to the Israelites, 'Yahwah, the Elohiym of your forefathers; the Elohiym of Abraham, the Elohiym of Isaac and the Elohiym of Jacob has sent me to you.' That’s my name forever, the name by which I’m to be remembered, from generation to generation.”
Sorry, but this is still just plain wrong. There is a reason that no translation of the bible translates these verses like this. Also one minor note, in the section where it says "God of Abraham, God of Isaac, and God of Jacob", the Hebrew word is "Elohai" not Elohim. This is the construct form of Elohim. It litterally reads "Elohai Avraham Elohai Yitsaq velohey Ya'aqov"
HYH conjugated in the first person qal imperfect is 'eheyeh' (aleph-hey-yod-hey) and means "I am" or "I will be." Here are some other usages of the first person qal imperfect i.e. conjugated identically to the usage in Ex. 3:13-15:
Ex. 3:12 "And God said, "I will be with you."
You are talking about the word eheyeh, and I am talking about the word HaYah. Exodus 3:14 And Elohiym said to Moses,(HaYah) “The Living that Lives. This is what you are to say to the Israelites:(HaYah) 'The Living has sent me to you.” (HaYah) in the ancient Semitic language means: The Living, or The Life.) NIV ref#2118 in Hebrew. Hayah is not eheyeh.
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RE: Yahwah - 7/31/2008 5:15:54 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6614
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel
You are talking about the word eheyeh, and I am talking about the word HaYah. Exodus 3:14 And Elohiym said to Moses,(HaYah) “The Living that Lives. This is what you are to say to the Israelites:(HaYah) 'The Living has sent me to you.” (HaYah) in the ancient Semitic language means: The Living, or The Life.) NIV ref#2118 in Hebrew. Hayah is not eheyeh.
Mike, you chose not to mention what sect you associate with, do you mind sharing your academic achievements, especially as related to Bible scholarship?
Thanks in advance,
JF
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RE: Yahwah - 7/31/2008 5:31:04 PM
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MichaelTheeArchAngel
Posts: 206
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I am a Judaeo Christian ( A Judaizer.) I am for the 7 Thunders. Here is a resource where I get some of my info. Do you like Archaeology? http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/3_waw.html
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel
You are talking about the word eheyeh, and I am talking about the word HaYah. Exodus 3:14 And Elohiym said to Moses,(HaYah) “The Living that Lives. This is what you are to say to the Israelites:(HaYah) 'The Living has sent me to you.” (HaYah) in the ancient Semitic language means: The Living, or The Life.) NIV ref#2118 in Hebrew. Hayah is not eheyeh.
Mike, you chose not to mention what sect you associate with, do you mind sharing your academic achievements, especially as related to Bible scholarship?
Thanks in advance,
JF
_____________________________
Truth is made known by the reason of the facts.
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RE: Yahwah - 7/31/2008 5:36:15 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 2911
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
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quote:
You are talking about the word eheyeh, and I am talking about the word HaYah. Exodus 3:14 And Elohiym said to Moses,(HaYah) “The Living that Lives. This is what you are to say to the Israelites:(HaYah) 'The Living has sent me to you.” (HaYah) in the ancient Semitic language means: The Living, or The Life.) NIV ref#2118 in Hebrew. Hayah is not eheyeh.
Sorry again you are just PLAIN WRONG, and simply just making things up!
If you check every single reference I gave you you will find that every one is HYH according to any exhaustive concordance! That is the Hebrew root of this verb and Strong's (like most Hebrew lexicons) only lists verbs by their root!
If you check the text, you will find that ever single reference, INCLUDING the references you gave in Ex. 3:13-15, is 'eheyeh' i.e. the first person qal imperfect conjugation of HYH. I chose the references that I did because they were all absolutely identical in the Hebrew!
Again in the Hebrew bible the verb HYH is conjugated, prefixed, and/or declined, about 120 different ways. I chose these specific verses because the they all use HYH identically!
EVEN THOUGH YOU OBVIOUSLY CANNOT READ HEBREW, YOU CAN STILL CHECK THIS OUT. JUST DO A LETTER BY LETTER COMPARISON; THE WORD IS SPELLED ALEPH-HEY-YOD-HEY IN EACH AND EVERY EXAMPLE I GAVE YOU!
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RE: Yahwah - 7/31/2008 5:40:27 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6614
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Interesting. The term Judaizer has long been a negative term reserved for false teachers. You're the first person I've ever met to apply it to themself. Although I've heard the Mormons claim there's is another gospel received from an angel - which is an open admission of heresy and a calling for a curse on themselves. But I digress.
Seven thunders... That'd be from Revelation 10:4
And when the seven thunders spoke, I was about to write; but I heard a voice from heaven say, "Seal up what the seven thunders have said and do not write it down."
While the Apostle John was forbidden to reveal them, are you allowed to tell the world their meaning?
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RE: Yahwah - 7/31/2008 5:49:49 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 2911
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From: California
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quote:
I am a Judaeo Christian ( A Judaizer.) I am for the 7 Thunders. Here is a resource where I get some of my info. Do you like Archaeology? http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/3_waw.html
Just a note on a immediate error I recognized on the website you referenced. In modern Hebrew the 'o', and 'u' pronunciation of a 'vav' still exist, and not only do they still exist, they are used in this way far more frequently than they were in Biblical Hebrew. Quite often the 'vav' is inserted into words in modern Hebrew to aid in the pronunciation of unpointed texts (like the newspaper).
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RE: Yahwah - 7/31/2008 6:00:11 PM
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MichaelTheeArchAngel
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Here is a bible reference. Quotes are from the NIV.
Zechariah 3
1 Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right side to accuse him. 2 The LORD said to Satan, "The LORD rebuke you, Satan! The LORD, who has chosen Jerusalem, rebuke you! Is not this man a burning stick snatched from the fire?"
3 Now Joshua was dressed in filthy clothes as he stood before the angel. 4 The angel said to those who were standing before him, "Take off his filthy clothes."
Then he said to Joshua, "See, I have taken away your sin, and I will put rich garments on you."
5 Then I said, "Put a clean turban on his head." So they put a clean turban on his head and clothed him, while the angel of the LORD stood by.
6 The angel of the LORD gave this charge to Joshua: 7 "This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'If you will walk in my ways and keep my requirements, then you will govern my house and have charge of my courts, and I will give you a place among these standing here.
8 " 'Listen, O high priest Joshua and your associates seated before you, who are men symbolic of things to come: I am going to bring my servant, the Branch. 9 See, the stone I have set in front of Joshua! There are seven eyes on that one stone, and I will engrave an inscription on it,' says the LORD Almighty, 'and I will remove the sin of this land in a single day.
10 " 'In that day each of you will invite his neighbor to sit under his vine and fig tree,' declares the LORD Almighty."
Zechariah 4
1 Then the angel who talked with me returned and wakened me, as a man is wakened from his sleep. 2 He asked me, "What do you see?"
I answered, "I see a solid gold lampstand with a bowl at the top and seven lights on it, with seven channels to the lights. 3 Also there are two olive trees by it, one on the right of the bowl and the other on its left."
4 I asked the angel who talked with me, "What are these, my lord?"
5 He answered, "Do you not know what these are?"
"No, my lord," I replied.
6 So he said to me, "This is the word of the LORD to Zerubbabel: 'Not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit,' says the LORD Almighty.
7 "What are you, O mighty mountain? Before Zerubbabel you will become level ground. Then he will bring out the capstone to shouts of 'God bless it! God bless it!' "
8 Then the word of the LORD came to me: 9 "The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this temple; his hands will also complete it. Then you will know that the LORD Almighty has sent me to you.
10 "Who despises the day of small things? Men will rejoice when they see the plumb line in the hand of Zerubbabel.
"(These seven are the eyes of the LORD, which range throughout the earth.)"
11 Then I asked the angel, "What are these two olive trees on the right and the left of the lampstand?"
12 Again I asked him, "What are these two olive branches beside the two gold pipes that pour out golden oil?"
13 He replied, "Do you not know what these are?"
"No, my lord," I said.
14 So he said, "These are the two who are anointed to serve the Lord of all the earth."
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Interesting. The term Judaizer has long been a negative term reserved for false teachers. You're the first person I've ever met to apply it to themself. Although I've heard the Mormons claim there's is another gospel received from an angel - which is an open admission of heresy and a calling for a curse on themselves. But I digress.
Seven thunders... That'd be from Revelation 10:4
And when the seven thunders spoke, I was about to write; but I heard a voice from heaven say, "Seal up what the seven thunders have said and do not write it down."
While the Apostle John was forbidden to reveal them, are you allowed to tell the world their meaning?
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RE: Yahwah - 7/31/2008 6:03:32 PM
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MichaelTheeArchAngel
Posts: 206
Joined: 8/8/2005
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Biblical Hebrew is in relationship to the ancient Hebrew, not the modern.
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
I am a Judaeo Christian ( A Judaizer.) I am for the 7 Thunders. Here is a resource where I get some of my info. Do you like Archaeology? http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/3_waw.html
Just a note on a immediate error I recognized on the website you referenced. In modern Hebrew the 'o', and 'u' pronunciation of a 'vav' still exist, and not only do they still exist, they are used in this way far more frequently than they were in Biblical Hebrew. Quite often the 'vav' is inserted into words in modern Hebrew to aid in the pronunciation of unpointed texts (like the newspaper).
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RE: Yahwah - 7/31/2008 6:07:29 PM
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Zhi
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quote:
Biblical Hebrew is in relationship to the ancient Hebrew, not the modern.
*sigh*
Benelchi has given his pedigree regarding ancient Hebrew. He seems quite qualified.
What's your pedigree regarding ancient Hebrew? So far, all I've seen is that you've written a wikki article (which isn't really saying much, I wouldn't be surprised if my 18 month old daughter wrote a wikki article when she plays with my keyboard while I'm making lunch) and you own a Strong's Concordance.
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Yahwah - 7/31/2008 6:12:01 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 2911
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel
Biblical Hebrew is in relationship to the ancient Hebrew, not the modern.
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
I am a Judaeo Christian ( A Judaizer.) I am for the 7 Thunders. Here is a resource where I get some of my info. Do you like Archaeology? http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/3_waw.html
Just a note on a immediate error I recognized on the website you referenced. In modern Hebrew the 'o', and 'u' pronunciation of a 'vav' still exist, and not only do they still exist, they are used in this way far more frequently than they were in Biblical Hebrew. Quite often the 'vav' is inserted into words in modern Hebrew to aid in the pronunciation of unpointed texts (like the newspaper).
The page you linked to specifically SAYS it is comparing ancient to modern Hebrew. Look at the table on the front page! Here is the text from that table, and it is still wrong:
Ancient ---------------------------------- Modern
Image Tent Peg
Meaning Add, Secure, Hook
Name Waw ---------------------------- Vav
Sound w, o, u --------------------------v
BTW all of the reference I quoted earlier are from well respected BIBLICAL HEBREW sources. So far you have provided none.
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RE: Yahwah - 7/31/2008 6:20:53 PM
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MichaelTheeArchAngel
Posts: 206
Joined: 8/8/2005
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Try studying the chart: http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/3_waw.html
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel
Biblical Hebrew is in relationship to the ancient Hebrew, not the modern.
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
I am a Judaeo Christian ( A Judaizer.) I am for the 7 Thunders. Here is a resource where I get some of my info. Do you like Archaeology? http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/3_waw.html
Just a note on a immediate error I recognized on the website you referenced. In modern Hebrew the 'o', and 'u' pronunciation of a 'vav' still exist, and not only do they still exist, they are used in this way far more frequently than they were in Biblical Hebrew. Quite often the 'vav' is inserted into words in modern Hebrew to aid in the pronunciation of unpointed texts (like the newspaper).
The page you linked to specifically SAYS it is comparing ancient to modern Hebrew. Look at the table on the front page! Here is the text from that table, and it is still wrong:
Ancient ---------------------------------- Modern
Image Tent Peg
Meaning Add, Secure, Hook
Name Waw ---------------------------- Vav
Sound w, o, u --------------------------v
BTW all of the reference I quoted earlier are from well respected BIBLICAL HEBREW sources. So far you have provided none.
quote:
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/3_waw.html
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RE: Yahwah - 7/31/2008 6:28:34 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 2911
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel
Try studying the chart: http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/3_waw.html
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel
Biblical Hebrew is in relationship to the ancient Hebrew, not the modern.
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
I am a Judaeo Christian ( A Judaizer.) I am for the 7 Thunders. Here is a resource where I get some of my info. Do you like Archaeology? http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/3_waw.html
Just a note on a immediate error I recognized on the website you referenced. In modern Hebrew the 'o', and 'u' pronunciation of a 'vav' still exist, and not only do they still exist, they are used in this way far more frequently than they were in Biblical Hebrew. Quite often the 'vav' is inserted into words in modern Hebrew to aid in the pronunciation of unpointed texts (like the newspaper).
The page you linked to specifically SAYS it is comparing ancient to modern Hebrew. Look at the table on the front page! Here is the text from that table, and it is still wrong:
Ancient ---------------------------------- Modern
Image Tent Peg
Meaning Add, Secure, Hook
Name Waw ---------------------------- Vav
Sound w, o, u --------------------------v
BTW all of the reference I quoted earlier are from well respected BIBLICAL HEBREW sources. So far you have provided none.
quote:
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/3_waw.html
Why would I want to do that when I have already identified errors on this page?
So far:
You have claimed that 'HYH' means "to live", and I have given you references that clearly refute that claim.
You have claimed that 'eheyey' and 'HYH' are not the same, and I have given you references that clearly refute that claim.
You have claimed that this web page didn't make a comparison with modern Hebrew, and I provided you references that refute that claim.
At what point are you going to simply acknowledge that your information is WRONG!
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RE: Yahwah - 7/31/2008 8:25:15 PM
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prophet
Posts: 572
Joined: 4/19/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mcleod
Would not condemm the person if they happen use the word God, Jesus, Jehovah and Lord.
What about using allah, when knowingly its is the name of a pagan god?
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: Yahwah - 7/31/2008 8:53:48 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 2911
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel
Try studying the chart: http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/3_waw.html
I did find a page on that site that you might want to take a look at, it is http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/37_lesson03.html
On this site when they explain verb tenses, they use the example of קצר, here is what they said:
"When the verb is written as אקצר the subject of the verb is also first person - "I" but, the tense is now "imperfect tense," an incomplete action and can be translated as "I am cutting a tree" (an action that has begun but not yet completed) or "I will cut a tree" (an action that has not yet begun)."
==============
Notice in the example above that the root was qoph-tsadi-resh(קצר), and the imperfect is formed by prefixing the aleph so that it becomes aleph-qoph-tsadi-resh (אקצר). Remeber that Hebrew reads right to left, so the prefix aleph is on the right.
This is identical to the example I gave you. i.e. in HYH the root is Hey-Yod-Hey, and the first person imperfect is formed by prefixing an aleph so it that it becomes aleph-hey-yod-hey. (or transliterated in to English eheyeh).
The site you referenced confirms my previous post:
quote:
If you check the text, you will find that ever single reference, INCLUDING the references you gave in Ex. 3:13-15, is 'eheyeh' i.e. the first person qal imperfect conjugation of HYH. I chose the references that I did because they were all absolutely identical in the Hebrew!
Again in the Hebrew bible the verb HYH is conjugated, prefixed, and/or declined, about 120 different ways. I chose these specific verses because the they all use HYH identically!
EVEN THOUGH YOU OBVIOUSLY CANNOT READ HEBREW, YOU CAN STILL CHECK THIS OUT. JUST DO A LETTER BY LETTER COMPARISON; THE WORD IS SPELLED ALEPH-HEY-YOD-HEY IN EACH AND EVERY EXAMPLE I GAVE YOU!
As I pointed out previously there are some errors on that site, but on the whole it is not too bad. You might want to take your own and advice and study a little on that site. There are better resource, but this one would be helpful in correcting many of your errors.
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