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RE: Do you expect physical persecution? - 8/6/2008 7:48:02 AM
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DaveW
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I do. If not during my lifetime, then during my kids and grandkids time.
Persecution is perhaps the ONLY way to get the church together and stop this stupid quibbling over minutae.
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RE: Do you expect physical persecution? - 8/6/2008 7:50:23 AM
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armydude
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
Persecution is perhaps the ONLY way to get the church together and stop this stupid quibbling over minutae.
My pastor and I were talking about this very thing a few weeks ago. He asked, "Have you ever noticed that in the countries where Christians are persecuted, that the church there is so much stronger than the church here?" He believes, as do I, that the church in America has had it good so long that we believe that we deserve it. I'm with you in believing that sooner or later that will change.
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No act of kindness is too small when measured by nail-pierced hands.
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RE: Do you expect physical persecution? - 8/6/2008 9:51:55 AM
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atruefaith
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quote:
Well only time will tell. Traditionally, revival increases persecution because any 'church culture' of the time has lulled itself into apathy and lukewarmness. Remember churches in John's Revelation?
Agreed, LCannon. Even more recently, there has been massive persecution in China over the last fifty years and yet what started as a few thousand Christians is now estimated at 300 million.
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RE: Do you expect physical persecution? - 8/6/2008 11:37:02 AM
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DaveW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: armydudequote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
Persecution is perhaps the ONLY way to get the church together and stop this stupid quibbling over minutae.
My pastor and I were talking about this very thing a few weeks ago. He asked, "Have you ever noticed that in the countries where Christians are persecuted, that the church there is so much stronger than the church here?" He believes, as do I, that the church in America has had it good so long that we believe that we deserve it. I'm with you in believing that sooner or later that will change. Now if we could get all those rich WOF tv preachers who teach we are supposed to confess biblical promises to receive them to start "naming and claiming" the biblical promise of persecution and instructing all their followers to do the same.......
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Do you expect physical persecution? - 8/7/2008 7:02:40 AM
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armydude
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
quote:
ORIGINAL: armydudequote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
Persecution is perhaps the ONLY way to get the church together and stop this stupid quibbling over minutae.
My pastor and I were talking about this very thing a few weeks ago. He asked, "Have you ever noticed that in the countries where Christians are persecuted, that the church there is so much stronger than the church here?" He believes, as do I, that the church in America has had it good so long that we believe that we deserve it. I'm with you in believing that sooner or later that will change. Now if we could get all those rich WOF tv preachers who teach we are supposed to confess biblical promises to receive them to start "naming and claiming" the biblical promise of persecution and instructing all their followers to do the same.......
Now here's where I have to wonder. We're supposed to "claim" persecution? Whatever happened to God being in control? I'm hoping this was tongue in cheek. If it was, ignore what I just said.
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RE: Do you expect physical persecution? - 8/7/2008 7:50:34 AM
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DaveW
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Definately tongue in cheek....
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RE: Do you expect physical persecution? - 8/7/2008 11:38:00 AM
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msashua
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It's funny this topic should come up at this time as I have been thinking about what I would do if I was physically persecuted for my faith...
I can't say that I expect to be persecuted, but in reading Scripture, I realize that persecution of believers has gone since the beginning of Christianity. I am also aware of the current persecution of Christians in countries other than the US. So, I guess I would say, it wouldn't suprise me if Christian persecution in the US comes to pass as we move closer to the return of Jesus.
Luke 21:8-19 "He replied: "Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am he,' and, 'The time is near.' Do not follow them. When you hear of wars and revolutions, do not be frightened. These things must happen first, but the end will not come right away." Then he said to them: "Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be great earthquakes, famines and pestilences in various places, and fearful events and great signs from heaven. "But before all this, they will lay hands on you and persecute you. They will deliver you to synagogues and prisons, and you will be brought before kings and governors, and all on account of my name.
This will result in your being witnesses to them. But make up your mind not to worry beforehand how you will defend yourselves. For I will give you words and wisdom that none of your adversaries will be able to resist or contradict. You will be betrayed even by parents, brothers, relatives and friends, and they will put some of you to death. All men will hate you because of me. But not a hair of your head will perish. By standing firm you will gain life."
I try to focus on not worrying as directed by Scripture. The idea of my own death doesn't particularly bother me because of Jesus, when I die, I am going to heaven! I pray that God will give me the strength to be a strong witness for Him, because in view of physical persecution, I am not sure that I am capable on my own, but with God, all things are possible!
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RE: Do you expect physical persecution? - 8/8/2008 5:30:11 PM
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kmbmhands
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I've been beaten up by a group of homosexuals.
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RE: Do you expect physical persecution? - 8/8/2008 5:41:10 PM
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RJR_fan
Posts: 716
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From: RTP, in sunny NC USA
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quote:
Do you expect to be physically persecuted for your faith in Jesus sometime in your life time?
As C. S. Lewis pointed out in his masterful satire The Screwtape Letters, the road to hell is a gentle road, without sharp turns or disturbing choices. Temple Grandin, the autistic savant who designs slaughterhouses, builds gentle curves into the last walkway that keeps the beasts from seeing what's coming.
When Christians become lukewarm, and placidly cooperate with the World's plans to muzzle them, Satan tends to mute the overt assaults. I'm thinking, though, since a significant percentage of the American Christian population is experiencing reformation, we might see some startling outbreaks of violence.
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The future has never been shaped by majorities but rather by dedicated minorities. And free men do not wait for the future; they create it. RJR
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RE: Do you expect physical persecution? - 8/9/2008 3:25:48 AM
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Annie64
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I don't live in daily expectation of it, but I do think it is likely. First, Jesus Himself said persecution is something that happens to Christians. And second, that's the direction the wind is starting to blow, even in this country. I hope it's still a long ways away, but that's really a selfish hope, when so many of our Christian brothers and sisters are already experiencing it in other countries. I can think of no reason God should have to keep me safe when I have brothers and sisters who He's not keeping safe. But what I fear is actually having the strength to stay true to Him when and if it does happen.
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On Christ the solid rock I stand
ALL other ground is sinking sand.
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RE: Do you expect physical persecution? - 8/9/2008 8:32:21 AM
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humbleinspirit
Posts: 18135
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quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
Persecution is perhaps the ONLY way to get the church together and stop this stupid quibbling over minutae.
My pastor and I were talking about this very thing a few weeks ago. He asked, "Have you ever noticed that in the countries where Christians are persecuted, that the church there is so much stronger than the church here?" He believes, as do I, that the church in America has had it good so long that we believe that we deserve it. I'm with you in believing that sooner or later that will change.
Now this reminded me of this scripure: Acts 5:39-41 (New International Version)
39 But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God."
40His speech persuaded them. They called the apostles in and had them flogged. Then they ordered them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.
41The apostles left the Sanhedrin, rejoicing because they had been counted worthy of suffering disgrace for the Name.
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RE: Do you expect physical persecution? - 8/9/2008 2:41:42 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 905
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quote:
ORIGINAL: makarizo
I am not afraid of it.
An average of 171,000 Christians worldwide are martyred for their faith per year.
I don't 'expect' it, but I am always ready.
I am ready to die for my faith.
Amen to that.
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
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RE: Do you expect physical persecution? - 8/9/2008 2:46:24 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
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quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
quote:
ORIGINAL: makarizo
quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
quote:
ORIGINAL: makarizo
I don't 'expect' it, but I am always ready.
I am ready to die for my faith.
I pray that I can do that. I pray that I have the strength to stand up for what I believe even if it means my life.
I would have guessed that with a name like "armydude", you would have a firm understanding and readiness for what can happen.
I am fully aware of what can happen. My prayer as that when the time comes I am strong enough to still say, "I am a Christian," regardless of the consequences.
Amen to this also. I am completely confident that the Lord will strengthen us if the occasion arises. I know that persecution is real, it is happening all over the world, right this minute. It is a sad but undeniable truth. Do I believe it is coming, yes, even to a town near you. Do I expect it in my lifetime, honestly, yes I do. And yes I do mean physical persecution, which may very well lead to death.
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
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RE: Do you expect physical persecution? - 8/9/2008 3:13:28 PM
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armydude
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD
Amen to this also. I am completely confident that the Lord will strengthen us if the occasion arises.
I'm reminded of something said during basic training. He was talking about a scenario where "your battle buddy is wounded, but to get to him you'd have to get in the line of fire." He said, "How many people here would do that?" Naturally almost every hand went up. He called us liars, saying this. "You won't even do pushups for your buddy now!"
The message still rings out to me. We're not even willing many times to do the little things for Jesus, so saying, "I'd die for Him," sounds a lot like a certain disciple that learned the hard way how shallow his dedication really was.
_____________________________
No act of kindness is too small when measured by nail-pierced hands.
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RE: Do you expect physical persecution? - 8/9/2008 8:22:40 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
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quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
quote:
ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD
Amen to this also. I am completely confident that the Lord will strengthen us if the occasion arises.
I'm reminded of something said during basic training. He was talking about a scenario where "your battle buddy is wounded, but to get to him you'd have to get in the line of fire." He said, "How many people here would do that?" Naturally almost every hand went up. He called us liars, saying this. "You won't even do pushups for your buddy now!"
The message still rings out to me. We're not even willing many times to do the little things for Jesus, so saying, "I'd die for Him," sounds a lot like a certain disciple that learned the hard way how shallow his dedication really was.
I agree with you armydude, that is why I put my confidence in Him to give me strength in that situation, instead of relying on my own. I would probably run away, scared senseless. But in Him, through His strength, I am confident He will give me what I need to get through any persecution even if it means dying. Of course I have not been put in that situation, so it is just speculation. But my faith in Him carrying me through is steadfast, even if I am not.
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
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RE: Do you expect physical persecution? - 8/9/2008 11:09:28 PM
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humbleinspirit
Posts: 18135
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD
quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
quote:
ORIGINAL: makarizo
quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
quote:
ORIGINAL: makarizo
I don't 'expect' it, but I am always ready.
I am ready to die for my faith.
I pray that I can do that. I pray that I have the strength to stand up for what I believe even if it means my life.
I would have guessed that with a name like "armydude", you would have a firm understanding and readiness for what can happen.
I am fully aware of what can happen. My prayer as that when the time comes I am strong enough to still say, "I am a Christian," regardless of the consequences.
Amen to this also. I am completely confident that the Lord will strengthen us if the occasion arises. I know that persecution is real, it is happening all over the world, right this minute. It is a sad but undeniable truth. Do I believe it is coming, yes, even to a town near you. Do I expect it in my lifetime, honestly, yes I do. And yes I do mean physical persecution, which may very well lead to death.
It will strengthen some, but others will cave instead.
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RE: Do you expect physical persecution? - 8/9/2008 11:14:16 PM
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Annie64
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From: Indianapolis, IN
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Armydude, you make a very good point. And it's a scary point. I guess that's why He says that it's if we're faithful in the small things that He will make us a ruler over many things. My prayer is that now, when it's not so dangerous to be a Christian, I will be faithful. When I think of all the times I haven't spoken up for the Lord, it is a very sobering and convicting thought.
_____________________________
On Christ the solid rock I stand
ALL other ground is sinking sand.
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RE: Do you expect physical persecution? - 8/10/2008 9:26:27 AM
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armydude
Posts: 16902
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quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
It will strengthen some, but others will cave instead.
Just remember that the same sun that softens the wax hardens the clay. Same sun, two different results? The difference? The makeup of the two. What's in the wax is what causes it to soften while the same can be said for what causes the clay to harden.
Jesus said it best when He was talking about people that did obey His words being wise and those that did not being foolish. The one constant was that the storm would come. The wise man's house stood. The foolish man's did not. There was no difference in the storms, and there was no difference mentioned in the houses. The difference was the foundation.
_____________________________
No act of kindness is too small when measured by nail-pierced hands.
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RE: Do you expect physical persecution? - 8/10/2008 11:54:45 AM
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butterfly616
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From: California
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This question sure makes me think about my walk with Jesus. I can't say I expect physical persecution, but many attacks from the enemy are unexpected. There are a lot of unexpected circumstances that have happened in my life. It was God's grace that enabled me to endure.
I agree with Armydude, we need a strong foundation. To me, this means putting my life into the Lord's hands on a daily basis. Asking for Him to equip me with all I need for the day.
Ephesians 6:10-17
10 A final word: Be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11 Put on all of God’s armor so that you will be able to stand firm against all strategies of the devil. 12 For we are not fighting against flesh-and-blood enemies, but against evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, against mighty powers in this dark world, and against evil spirits in the heavenly places.
13 Therefore, put on every piece of God’s armor so you will be able to resist the enemy in the time of evil. Then after the battle you will still be standing firm. 14 Stand your ground, putting on the belt of truth and the body armor of God’s righteousness. 15 For shoes, put on the peace that comes from the Good News so that you will be fully prepared. 16 In addition to all of these, hold up the shield of faith to stop the fiery arrows of the devil. 17 Put on salvation as your helmet, and take the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
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Don't worry about anything, instead pray about everything. Tell God what you need and thank him for all he has done. Philippians 4:6
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RE: Do you expect physical persecution? - 8/10/2008 4:13:27 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 905
Joined: 2/13/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Annie64
Armydude, you make a very good point. And it's a scary point. I guess that's why He says that it's if we're faithful in the small things that He will make us a ruler over many things. My prayer is that now, when it's not so dangerous to be a Christian, I will be faithful. When I think of all the times I haven't spoken up for the Lord, it is a very sobering and convicting thought.
Wow, isn't this the truth. Armydude did make a good point huh. I have to agree with you on this one. I know I have had many occasions to stand up for Him, and have stood silent. You are right, it is sobering, and it is convicting. It is so easy to say I will be ready to die when the time comes. Or that I will stand in the face of persecution when it comes, but what about right now? Am I willing to stand right now? Thank you for raising such a good point, I really have to contemplate my complacency in my life right now towards the Lord.
Yet, I still will stand resolutely assured of Him, knowing He will strengthen me if my time comes in these things.
As for right now, I need to also rely on His strength, since the more I think about it, the more I realize I am a chicken.
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
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RE: Do you expect physical persecution? - 8/10/2008 8:18:58 PM
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Lufia
Posts: 187
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From: Canada, quebec province
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I was like that too: not witnessing my faith. But then someone here told to go see this site, wayofthemaster and wow did it change my way of thinking. Since then, i have witness my hairdresser, family and friend. And i won't stop.
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Give your life to Jesus and enjoy the ride!
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RE: Do you expect physical persecution? - 8/11/2008 1:30:45 PM
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terryjohn
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Do we expect to be physically persecuted for your faith in Jesus sometime in our life times? Do we expect to have to persecute others for their lack of faith or evil in our life times? I do expect that I will have to oppose the evil men do and they may well see that as persecution and they may well oppose my opposition and I may see that as persecution.
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