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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/13/2008 10:16:49 PM
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buckifn
Posts: 1788
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God does not need to condone sin in order to have His grace revealed.
The flesh/sin nature cannot and will not ever see or know God. Do not allow anyone to ever deceive you into thinking condoning sin is necessary to win someone to Christ.
It is the Holy Spirit that draws us to Salvation. That's what the Bible teaches and I believe it.
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/14/2008 11:57:46 AM
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acknwldgeverygdthing
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If the Holy Spirit draws then why does anybody go out to tell the good news?
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Job 37:10
By the breath of God ice is given, And the broad waters are frozen.
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/14/2008 3:06:05 PM
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buckifn
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quote:
If the Holy Spirit draws then why does anybody go out to tell the good news?
Because the Bible tells us to.
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/14/2008 3:21:05 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 4287
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From: The higher lowcountry
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
quote:
If the Holy Spirit draws then why does anybody go out to tell the good news?
Because the Bible tells us to.
And since we're not the Holy Spirit...we don't know who will be drawn so we are to preach to everybody!
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/14/2008 5:14:09 PM
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buckifn
Posts: 1788
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quote:
And since we're not the Holy Spirit...we don't know who will be drawn so we are to preach to everybody!
Preaching and condoning are two entirely different subjects. Do you already understand that? Or were your questions to insinuate that someone said do not share the Gospel? I did not see anyone say not to share the Gospel, but I did see several of us say we are not to celebrate sin.
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/14/2008 5:27:06 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 4287
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From: The higher lowcountry
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
quote:
And since we're not the Holy Spirit...we don't know who will be drawn so we are to preach to everybody!
Preaching and condoning are two entirely different subjects. Do you already understand that? Or were your questions to insinuate that someone said do not share the Gospel? I did not see anyone say not to share the Gospel, but I did see several of us say we are not to celebrate sin.
geezzz...I was just adding to your statement that I totally agree with.
No insinuations or anything...just adding to the agreement.
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/14/2008 5:28:46 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 4287
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in hindsight of the context of this thread
"preach" was probably not the best choice of words
please forgive that
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/15/2008 9:16:29 AM
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sunshinesoprano
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You know, Manda has a point that I could very well go and be praying during the entire service. To be there for those who might need someone to talk to.
I live my life in a standpoint of ministry, always being ready to help someone if they need it. Servanthood is one of my gifts.
However, in light of the fact that the point of the service is to celebrate their relationship, it seems to be the equivalent of me saying, "Yay for you, you're living in direct disobedience, even though "Tom," being raised a Southerm Baptist, has the truth in his heart and chooses to reject it and lead you astray. I give you my blessing."
I don't give them my blessing, I'm not willing to celebrate and congratulate them on something that is an abomination, regardless of my historical feelings for my friend.
If I don't go, I may lose whatever influence I've had on him.
_____________________________
Pure Heart-Fresh, Progressive Southern Gospel
Sing, laugh, love, PRAISE!
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/15/2008 9:25:33 AM
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zoebob
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quote:
If I don't go, I may lose whatever influence I've had on him.
If you do then God will use the influence you've had and has other plans for you and him. It's never our fault if we loviingly stand up for what is right and other people are offended. God says that other's will be offended by our right behavior
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L-R: DD1, Ellies DS2, DD2, Ellies DS1
L-R: Ellies DD1, Ellies DD2, DS, Ellies DS3
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/15/2008 12:46:08 PM
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laura...
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How about having lunch with your friend prior to the event. At that lunch let him know how much he means to you as a friend. Remind him about your faith and stance regarding homosexual unions thus explaining why you will not be attending this event. You can also talk to him about your concerns about his choice of partners. Such an honest approach may preserve your friendship while still not compromising your faith.
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/15/2008 1:06:04 PM
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VisitorinWaiting
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I wouldn't go either. The thought of sexual immorality makes me sick to my stomach anyway...so being there with people "uniting" so that they can feel better about being sexual immoral would not be pleasing to my Spirit...nor do I think it would be pleasing to the Spirit that lives within me.
I agree with a previous post that you should not go because you won't be happy about it, and it will read all over your face and your actions. I had some people at my wedding (I am a Christian woman who married a Christian man) that were not happy about me getting married at all...and I would rather that they had stayed at home. In many of our pictures and most of our video, you see them in the background with frowns on their faces and not socializing with anyone. So, it might be best that you not go.
Either way, it won't help the relationship.
< Message edited by VisitorinWaiting -- 8/15/2008 1:35:47 PM >
_____________________________
Hebrews 11:13,16 "...They said they were like visitors and strangers on earth...they were waiting for a better country, a heavenly country." (NCV)
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/15/2008 3:26:29 PM
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manda59
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sunshinesoprano
You know, Manda has a point that I could very well go and be praying during the entire service. To be there for those who might need someone to talk to.
I live my life in a standpoint of ministry, always being ready to help someone if they need it. Servanthood is one of my gifts.
However, in light of the fact that the point of the service is to celebrate their relationship, it seems to be the equivalent of me saying, "Yay for you, you're living in direct disobedience, even though "Tom," being raised a Southerm Baptist, has the truth in his heart and chooses to reject it and lead you astray. I give you my blessing."
I wonder if any of his Christian family are going? Despite their convictions? Maybe they are feeling really torn too.
quote:
I don't give them my blessing, I'm not willing to celebrate and congratulate them on something that is an abomination, regardless of my historical feelings for my friend.
If I don't go, I may lose whatever influence I've had on him.
sunshinesoprano, have you asked him why he invited you, knowing how you feel about it? If not, maybe you could do now, finding out what he hoped would be achieved by you being invited, you being there.
If he says that he thought you might come round to the idea, and that that was the goal of inviting you, then that might assist you with your decision. But if it was for some other reason, then that too might help you decide.
_____________________________
"Once again....drum roll please! Manda is right"
doinkdom, October 2008
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/15/2008 5:17:07 PM
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VisitorinWaiting
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A Southern Baptist family that I know, and have known for years, have three daughters. The older one had a union ceremony with her girlfriend. The parents did not go. The other two married men, and the parents went. I think they made the right decision.
_____________________________
Hebrews 11:13,16 "...They said they were like visitors and strangers on earth...they were waiting for a better country, a heavenly country." (NCV)
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/16/2008 5:12:39 AM
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manda59
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Auben
Jesus ate with prostitutes and sinners. According to Jewish tradition, much like some current Christian tradition, you were not allowed to eat with sinners. You couldn't lend them the credence of your presence. That was considered support of their sin.
Jesus had no control over what these parties were like. He didn't have control over whether alcohol was being served or whether the prostitutes were 'on duty.' Still he came. His presence changed the party, the parties did not change him.
This reminds me of another situation Paul detailed. Some Christians were eating meat that had been offered to idols. Others were angered by this clear breaking of God's law. How could they have anything to do with something which had been a part of sin? Paul very clearly detailed that the food was food. If one is strong enough to see food as food, then Christianity did not shun them; however, not all are strong enough. We need to have sensitivity to our brothers and not cause them to stumble with our strength.
I see these as connecting ideas in the New Testament and applicable to this situation. If you have the strength to stand for your ideals, if you are open about God's word and your belief, your stance will be clear to your friends. It will be obvious to the people involved that you are NOT condoning your friend's lifestyle, but merely being there with him, eating with him, experiencing his life with him...just as Jesus did with sinners. He wasn't handing them a drink, but He did come and be with them at their feasts.
If you are not strong in your faith, if you can't speak of your faith or your belief in love, then you are not strong enough to 'eat the meat of idols' and deal with a situation that touches sin. Those who are strong enough should not condemn you. We each have different abilities and weaknesses. Sometimes keeping apart is the only thing that can keep us pure.
Whether you want go or not seems to be moot to me. Whether God wants you to go is the true question. I would think about things for awhile and then I would pray for direction...if this was my situation.
Someone showed me this response by Auben last night - its bears repeating IMO. Said it better than I did.
_____________________________
"Once again....drum roll please! Manda is right"
doinkdom, October 2008
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/16/2008 8:26:37 AM
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buckifn
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quote:
geezzz...I was just adding to your statement that I totally agree with.
No insinuations or anything...just adding to the agreement.
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thanks for answering d. Sorry I misunderstood your question.
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/16/2008 4:24:30 PM
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phosadaud
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I still do not see why folks are having a hard time understanding the difference between eating a meal with a friend who is in a sinful lifestyle and attending an event whose entire purpose is to celebrate a commitment to that sinful lifestyle. I simply do not see anything even remotely close to that in Scripture.
And no one has ever answered my questions regarding that - only gotten those noses bent out of joint and attacked me. I stepped out for a while because I wasn't sure if I was communicating poorly or if maybe I was hitting a nerve, but I'm going to step back in now and people can be offended by what I say if they wish - I'm not here to make friends. I'm here to share what I believe. If you are offended by that - don't read this post.
OK. Maybe things are different in other parts of the world, I don't know. All I know is that here in the US (which is where I'm assuming this union is taking place), it would be considered exceedingly rude and unloving to attend a celebration if you had no intention of celebrating. Exceedingly rude. The better option is always to tell your friend you love them and will always be there for them, but you cannot in good conscience celebrate their decision. Period. Take them out to dinner. Invite them over for some coffee. Be Jesus to them. But don't play word games saying you are doing one thing when your actions say you are doing something else. Love doesn't stand by someone's side while they jump off a cliff and pray quietly to "be there for them" (I still don't get what that means).
Some of you may think I just don't have a clue. Here's the thing. I do. More than you know. When I was in college, I chose to be baptised in a lake by my college pastor. I had been baptized as an infant, and I respected the fact that my parents made the decision to grow me up in the church, but I wanted to make that choice myself and proclaim that decision myself. My parents believed this was actually wrong. You are only baptized once in their church. Period. End of story. They did not attend my baptism. They weren't nasty about it and didn't "disown me" or anything. They just didn't come. And here's the rub. I may have disagreed with them, but I wouldn't want them to come if they were standing in the back feeling sad and wishing I wasn't doing it. If they had come, they would have been either lying to me by celebrating something they thought was wrong, or they would have been going for themselves not for me by going there to "grieve" instead of celebrate.
And that isn't the only time I have done something those close to me have disagreed with nor will it be the last (my current career pursuits are not exactly making my family jump up and down for joy). But, "being there for me" has nothing to do with attending a celebration. It has to do with loving me and wishing the best for me. I respect that in my friends and family. I would not respect someone who thought physically attending something but sitting back and being sad was "being there for me". That's not "being there".
_____________________________
~Kristin~
Resume Quotations: "I worked as a Corporate Lesion."
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/16/2008 9:24:10 PM
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Dakotasunbeam
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I agree with Kristin, excellent post.
Jesus was not attending idol worship ceremonies, parties of debauchery, or taking part in pegan ceremonies like the male prostitutes at the shrines. NO, He was talking to people at ordinary things like weddings, dinner parties, and lunch. He met people on the street who were considered evil, and He told them the good news. Jesus was purposeful in every interaction He had with the unconverted. He POINTED OUT sin. Imagine if you will, that you are at a party and you meet a woman who says, she has the greatest live-in boyfriend. Jesus would have "called her" on her sin--yet, I am sad to admit, how many of us, when mingling with unbelievers do this sort of thing?
If you really would like do what Jesus did, then upon meeting a sinner, and they admit some wrong-doing, you'll tell them it's WRONG. Jesus didn't call us to "be there." He called us to present the good news. We don't attend pegan rituals and take part in them, NO.
I would not attend. Infact, you don't know how God could use this to speak to your friend. Right now, we are all looking at this from a physical perspective. But God knows the heart and spirit. That is why it is so key for us to do EXACTLY what the word says, even if it means denouncing something our friend is doing, not attending, or not keeping company with the sexually immoral. God is omnipotent, and all knowing, we are not. All we are called to do is obey His word. I postulate, the best thing you could do, is not attend. Send him a letter and explain why you are not attending. Explain to him that while you love him dearly, your committement to follow Christ and your love for your Lord will not permit you to attend an event that celebrates sin. Add scripture in there, about the woman at the well, the adultress, and the money changes, and sellers that were desecrating the House of God. Let Him know that obedience to God is more important than anything in this world. And maybe, just maybe, that's exactly what he needs to hear.
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/17/2008 12:12:17 AM
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gmc4Jesus
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This is a challenging situation. How do you confront the sin without condemning the sinner?
I would not go. Since you are in such a close relationship, you might privately explain to your friend that, while they are still a friend, what they are doing is a violation of God's Word. Therefore, you will not stop your friendship, but you will not attend.
We can care for someone without supporting what they are doing.
May God give you the wisdom, tact and grace as you try to witness to your friend. Pray that when their "union" fails, and it almost certainly will, that you can come along side and lead them back to God's standard.
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Let's talk about Jesus, His life and teachings at the www.gettingtoknowjesus.org Gospel Study Forum.
Home of "Getting To Know Jesus", a complete Bible study on the life and teachings of Jesus.
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/18/2008 10:00:55 AM
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BjoyMN
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From: Minnesota
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quote:
You know, Manda has a point that I could very well go and be praying during the entire service. To be there for those who might need someone to talk to.
I live my life in a standpoint of ministry, always being ready to help someone if they need it. Servanthood is one of my gifts.
SunShineSoprano- I agree with Manda wholeheartly and equipped with your gift of servanthood The Lord can use you in a mighty ways....I'm guessing that He has already used you in many ways with your relationship with Tom that you haven't even noticed.
_____________________________
Proverbs 3:5-6 (LIV) "Trust in The Lord with all your heart. Acknowledge Him with everything you do and He will guide your path."
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/18/2008 10:11:54 AM
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BjoyMN
Posts: 29
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From: Minnesota
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quote:
If I don't go, I may lose whatever influence I've had on him.
SunShineSoprano-
This sounds like The HS may have given you your answer? Keep praying and taking His lead and you cannot go wrong. When is the event? I pray you will keep us posted. Keep in mind however that you may not get to see a harvest of the seeds you are planting with Tom - its possible it may not happen in your lifetime that's why we focus on each day of being open vessels of simply loving and serving. Its not about us and our feelings...its about Him. How can you bring God the Glory in this relationship? God bless you!
_____________________________
Proverbs 3:5-6 (LIV) "Trust in The Lord with all your heart. Acknowledge Him with everything you do and He will guide your path."
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/18/2008 4:10:40 PM
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manda59
Posts: 6036
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ta_mosquito
I'm not at ALL saying that these are the case; but we cannot say that her fear of losing influence with her friend is from God.
BjoyMN didn't say it was from God.
She said it sounded like it "sounded like it may be" from Him.
_____________________________
"Once again....drum roll please! Manda is right"
doinkdom, October 2008
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/19/2008 9:27:35 AM
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BjoyMN
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From: Minnesota
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quote]BjoyMN didn't say it was from God.
She said it sounded like it "sounded like it may be" from Him. [/quote[/quote]
Thanks Manda. Yes, I was certainly NOT implying that I know how The Holy Spirit is speaking into SunShineSoprano's life. It was meant to be a pondering point to her....could this be The HS speaking to you? She is the only one who will get confirmation and know for sure.
_____________________________
Proverbs 3:5-6 (LIV) "Trust in The Lord with all your heart. Acknowledge Him with everything you do and He will guide your path."
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RE: To Attend or Not to Attend? - 8/19/2008 10:09:06 AM
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stellaluna
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I'm coming into this really late, but based on this:
quote:
ORIGINAL: sunshinesoprano
And to better understand my relationship with this guy, we became friends when we were 13. Were inseparable from 7th-12th grade. We talked on the phone almost every night. During college we emailed everyday, talked at least 2-3 times per week, and he came home on my birthday to take me to Red Lobster. People often thought we were together, though we never were. Came mighty close, but it didn't happen.
We've been through a LOT together, and I believe that he respects my beliefs as I respect his and we agree to disagree.
I've been a Christian witness to him our entire friendship. He would come hear me sing when he wouldn't step foot into a church otherwise. That's part of why my music ministry means so much to me.
I would go. And let me tell you why. This celebration is very important to your friend, no matter what anyone else says about it. If you don't go, you not only run the risk of damaging a long-term relationship, you also run the risk of being a hypocrite. After all, he came to church for you, why wouldn't you attend his ceremony for him? (I'm not saying that's equal, I'm just pointing out what appearances can seem to be.)
You have been a Christian witness to him his entire life. This is yet another opportunity to continue the dialogue. You could even say, "You know, I wasn't sure I should come to your ceremony and I asked for some advice and a lot of Christians said they wouldn't do it." This is a good time to point out how much you love him, but how much more God loves him.
As for the partner, you are a threat to their relationship because you love your friend with the love of Christ, while he cannot.
Just pray about it.
_____________________________
Who should be allowed to attend church?
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