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The word "Church" is not in scripture. - 8/9/2008 1:30:20 AM
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MichaelTheeArchAngel
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The word "Church" is not in scripture.
The word "Assembly and Congregation" are INTERPRETATED as Church. Now what do you think of that?
If you will take notice, the word Church is not used in the Old Testament. The word Ekklesia is used 114 times, and mostly as an INTERPRETATION for Church and a few times as Assembly or Congregation. The word Church is an INTERPRETATION were as Assembly or Congregation would be a TRANSLATION.
The ecclesia or ekklesia was the principal assembly of the democracy of ancient Athens during its Golden Age (480-404 BCE). It was a gathering place for politicians and voters.
__________________
I am a Judaeo Christian
I do not believe in Angels, Evolution, Hell, Trinitarism, or Sunday Sabbath.
A Jew is a convert to Judaism and the Hebrews are a race of people.
Contrary to popular belief, Jews are not a race, but a assembly of peoples.
They are the congregation of Zion. And that is according to scripture and history.
A Hebrew may or may not be a Jew.
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RE: The word "Church" is not in scripture. - 8/9/2008 7:36:12 AM
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greatdivide46
Posts: 1157
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There are a number of words (such as "trinity" and "rapture") that don't appear in scripture, but Christians still believe in what those words stand for. Same thing with church, I suppose.
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greatdivide46
SFC, USA (Ret)
The reflections of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the LORD -- Proverbs 16:1
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RE: The word "Church" is not in scripture. - 8/9/2008 8:11:04 AM
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Theophile2
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Am I to understand that you take umbrage with the way the Greek is translated into English?
Have you taken a look at the etymology of the word "church"?
quote:
Middle English chirche < Old English ċiriċe (“‘church’”), from West Germanic *kirika, from Ancient Greek κυριακόν (kuriakon), neuter form of κυριακός (“‘belonging to the lord’”) from κύριος (kurios), “‘ruler, lord’”). For vowel evolution, see bury. Greek κυριακόν (kuriakon) was used of houses of Christian worship since circa 300 AD, especially in the East, though it was less common in this sense than ἐκκλησία (ekklēsia), “‘congregation’”) or βασιλική (basilikē), “‘royal thing’”). An example of the direct Greek-to-Germanic progress of many Christian words, via the Goths; it was probably used by West Germanic people in their pre-Christian period. Also picked up by Slavic, via Old High German chirihha (compare Old Church Slavonic црькъі (crĭky), Russian церковь (cérkov’)). Romance and Celtic languages use variants of Latin ecclesia.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/church
Mirriam-Webster's third definition of Church:
quote:
3 often capitalized :a body or organization of religious believers: as a: the whole body of Christians b: denomination <the Presbyterian church> c: congregation
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/church
quote:
Though some persons have tried to see in the term ἐκκλησία a more or less literal meaning of ‘called-out ones,’ this type of etymologizing is not warranted either by the meaning of ἐκκλησία in NT times or even by its earlier usage. The term ἐκκλησία was in common usage for several hundred years before the Christian era and was used to refer to an assembly of persons constituted by well- defined membership. In general Greek usage it was normally a socio-political entity based upon citizenship in a city-state ... For the NT, however, it is important to understand the meaning of ἐκκλησίαa as ‘an assembly of God’s people.’
In the rendering of ἐκκλησίαa a translator must beware of using a term which refers primarily to a building rather than to a congregation of believers. In many contexts ἐκκλησίαa may be readily rendered as ‘gathering of believers’ or ‘group of those who trust in Christ.’ Sometimes, as in 1 Cor 1.2, it is possible to translate ‘Paul writes to the believers in Christ who live in Corinth.’ Such a translation does, however, omit a significant element in the term ἐκκλησίαa, in that the sense of corporate unity is not specified.
Johannes P. Louw and Eugene Albert Nida, Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament : Based on Semantic Domains, electronic ed. of the 2nd edition. (New York: United Bible societies, 1996, c1989), 1:125-126.
quote:
[The] political usage is present also in Acts 19:39, which refers to “the regular assembly” of the inhabitants of Ephesus. In a wider sense the word can be used for any public assembly; thus in Acts 19:32 it is used of an “assembly” “in confusion,” which had come together in the theater at the urging of the silversmiths of Ephesus (cf. also v. 40).
In the overwhelming majority of the NT passages, ἐκκλησία is used as a fixed Christian term and is to be translated with congregation or congregational assembly or c(C)hurch. Distinguishing among passages that use ἐκκλησία with these different meanings is possible only within limits. The distinction between congregation/ church (the body of Christians at a specific place; Germ. Gemeinde) and Church (the supra-congregational association of God’s people or the totality of all Christians; Germ. Kirche) is foreign to the NT. Closely related is the fact that early Christianity did not conceive of ἐκκλησία primarily as an organizational, but rather as a theological entity.
In a series of passages which reflect the earliest Christian usage, we see the phrase ἐκκλησία τοῦ θεοῦ, “church of God” (1 Cor 1:2; 10:32; 11:22; 15:9; 2 Cor 1:1; Gal 1:13; pl. in 1 Cor 11:16, 22; 1 Thess 2:14; 2 Thess 1:4) ... wherever it appears by itself as an ecclesiological term, is to be understood as an abbreviation of the original term ἐκκλησία τοῦ θεοῦ. That is, the more precise designation with the genitivus auctoris “of God” is to be assumed.
Horst Robert Balz and Gerhard Schneider, Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament, Translation of: Exegetisches Worterbuch Zum Neuen Testament. (Grand Rapids, Mich.: Eerdmans, 1990-c1993), 1:411-412.
May you continually be blessed in your study of the Word of God.
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RE: The word "Church" is not in scripture. - 8/9/2008 9:43:25 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel
The word "Church" is not in scripture.
The word "Assembly and Congregation" are INTERPRETATED as Church. Now what do you think of that?
I hate to be the one to tell you this but the words "Assimbly and Congregation" are not in the original greek either.
Thsnks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: The word "Church" is not in scripture. - 8/9/2008 11:02:13 PM
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Ps103
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And the point of this thread is...?
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Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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RE: The word "Church" is not in scripture. - 8/9/2008 11:33:31 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3576
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel
The word "Church" is not in scripture.
The word "Assembly and Congregation" are INTERPRETATED as Church. Now what do you think of that?
I hate to be the one to tell you this but the words "Assimbly and Congregation" are not in the original greek either.
Thsnks
RC
Oh, RC! Oh, RC! Oh, oh OH, RC! 
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: The word "Church" is not in scripture. - 8/10/2008 12:02:55 AM
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musicboss11
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The word toilet is not in the Bible, but I make sure to use one a lot and I'm glad I do
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RE: The word "Church" is not in scripture. - 8/10/2008 12:45:54 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Well, since we are all perfect spellers and perfect English-speakers, and since we all use twalletts, let me just write that RC, I love your humor!! Thank you for a smile!
_____________________________
To the others:
I admit that sometimes, I get frustrated with subjects brought up over and over, even the ones I agree with(!!), but new people can't possibly know what has already been discussed ad infinitum. Good night, how often I have thought I had dug out some new, shiny, golden nugget, only to find that everyone already knew what was new to me.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: The word "Church" is not in scripture. - 8/10/2008 12:51:48 AM
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crankius
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quote:
The word "Church" is not in scripture.
Tomorrow when I congregate with my local assembly, I'll be sure to keep this in mind.
Or should that read when I assemble with my local congregation...
At any rate, we'll enjoy fellowshipping, studying, and praying with our brothers and sisters in the local Body of Christ.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY
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RE: The word "Church" is not in scripture. - 8/12/2008 8:17:20 AM
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MichaelTheeArchAngel
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Why do some people only see a misspelled word, but never the message? There is no need to answer the question.
quote:
ORIGINAL: techne
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel
The word "Church" is not in scripture.
The word "Assembly and Congregation" are INTERPRETATED as Church. Now what do you think of that?
I hate to be the one to tell you this but the words "Assimbly and Congregation" are not in the original greek either.
Thsnks
RC
nor is "Assimbly" in the english translation (not even the olde englyshe)...
then again, i don't believe "interpretated" is english either...
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RE: The word "Church" is not in scripture. - 8/12/2008 8:38:46 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel
Why do some people only see a misspelled word, but never the message? There is no need to answer the question.
Mike, Mike, that's sort of what all your posts and even the statements in your signature do, miss the forrest for the trees or get stuck on some insignificant detail and completely miss a universal Truth. It can be the sign of an untrained novice unwilling to listen to scholars.
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RE: The word "Church" is not in scripture. - 8/12/2008 3:28:34 PM
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Lapidoth
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quote:
I am a Judaeo Christian
I do not believe in Angels, Evolution, Hell, Trinitarism, or Sunday Sabbath.
A Jew is a convert to Judaism and the Hebrews are a race of people.
From my studies for many decades, this statement makes you a "Sadducee."
A Judaeo Christian falls more in line with the "Pharisee."
Sadducees don't believe in angels, hell, after-life, etc.
The many doctrines of Christianity fall in line with what the Pharisees taught and preserved.
Not counting the "bad" parts that we think make up the Pharisees.
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http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: The word "Church" is not in scripture. - 8/13/2008 7:40:49 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1936
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(church)
occurs 80 times in 79 verses in the KJV
occurs 74 times in 73 verses in the NKJV
occurs 108 times in 105 verses in the NLT
occurs 79 times in 77 verses in the NIV
occurs 74 times in 73 verses in the ESV
Sorry! The word church doesn't occur in the RVR.
occurs 77 times in 76 verses in the NASB
occurs 74 times in 73 verses in the RSV
occurs 76 times in 74 verses in the ASV
Sorry! The word church doesn't occur in the YNG.
Sorry! The word church doesn't occur in the DBY.
occurs 77 times in 76 verses in the WEB
Sorry! The word church doesn't occur in the HNV.
Sorry! The word church doesn't occur in the VUL.
Apparently whether it is in the Bible or not depends upon the translation you are using.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: The word "Church" is not in scripture. - 8/14/2008 12:12:09 AM
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treeclimber48
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Last November my mother-in-law asked the question: where is church mentioned in scripture? If you look for it is in lots of places.
church - is a local assembl of believers as well
as the redeemed of all the ages who follow Jesus Christ as
Savior and Lord
church is found it lots of place from Matthew to Revelations.
church as the body of Christ did not begin until the day of Pentecose after the Ascension of Jesus. (Acts 1:1-4)
......if a man comes into your church.......James 2:12
There are lots of places where church is mentioned and talked about. When the Apostles went out to do God's work, where did they go? Where did Paul go?
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RE: The word "Church" is not in scripture. - 8/14/2008 12:16:24 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3576
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quote:
ORIGINAL: treeclimber48
Last November my mother-in-law asked the question: where is church mentioned in scripture? If you look for it is in lots of places.
church - is a local assembl of believers as well
as the redeemed of all the ages who follow Jesus Christ as
Savior and Lord
church is found it lots of place from Matthew to Revelations.
church as the body of Christ did not begin until the day of Pentecose after the Ascension of Jesus. (Acts 1:1-4)
......if a man comes into your church.......James 2:12
There are lots of places where church is mentioned and talked about. When the Apostles went out to do God's work, where did they go? Where did Paul go?
To the Temple. To the synagogues. To homes. To the hillsides.
I think we need to give Michael some leeway here. He wasn't writing about English translations. Let the man study and discover! That's part of the fun, the joy of the Bible -- discovery!
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: The word "Church" is not in scripture. - 8/14/2008 1:15:37 AM
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MichaelTheeArchAngel
Posts: 195
Joined: 8/8/2005
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You are a darlng that delivered. Thank you for your effort and your brain.
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
(church)
occurs 80 times in 79 verses in the KJV
occurs 74 times in 73 verses in the NKJV
occurs 108 times in 105 verses in the NLT
occurs 79 times in 77 verses in the NIV
occurs 74 times in 73 verses in the ESV
Sorry! The word church doesn't occur in the RVR.
occurs 77 times in 76 verses in the NASB
occurs 74 times in 73 verses in the RSV
occurs 76 times in 74 verses in the ASV
Sorry! The word church doesn't occur in the YNG.
Sorry! The word church doesn't occur in the DBY.
occurs 77 times in 76 verses in the WEB
Sorry! The word church doesn't occur in the HNV.
Sorry! The word church doesn't occur in the VUL.
Apparently whether it is in the Bible or not depends upon the translation you are using.
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RE: The word "Church" is not in scripture. - 8/14/2008 7:17:37 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Hey! What are we doing up so early??
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: The word "Church" is not in scripture. - 8/14/2008 7:28:13 AM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1936
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Good morning! I'm usually a very early riser. I've been out of town. Typically this is normal for me. How about you?
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: The word "Church" is not in scripture. - 8/14/2008 8:17:31 AM
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diddl2007
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The good word for the Church in the Bible is in Hebrew :
"Kehila" means "Assembly" and "Ecclésia" in Grec, "Church" in English.
Then the word "Church" is in the Bible but in Hebrew : "Kehila" = "Assembly"
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http://messianique.forumpro.fr/index.htm
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RE: The word "Church" is not in scripture. - 8/14/2008 8:27:35 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3576
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From: a mother who let me live
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. . . and kehilot are any group that has assembled, not just religious ones. In the Bible, also, it is any gathering, no matter what their purpose.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: The word "Church" is not in scripture. - 8/14/2008 9:47:45 AM
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diddl2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
. . . and kehilot are any group that has assembled, not just religious ones.
No, "Kehila" means "Assembly of believers" and "believers" are those follow the God of Israel.
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http://messianique.forumpro.fr/index.htm
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