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RE: Where does Personal Responsibility come into play? - 8/27/2008 8:28:14 AM
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P31W
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quote:
I think the root problem with the credit crunch is something that many people don't notice- moral hazard.
I believe that is what allowed us to get into this mess. It's a cycle. Maybe the right thing to do is "break" the cycle. Allow the cards to fall where they may so that in the future our Children and grandchildren will learn to use their "own" brains and not expect others to think for them.
There is something very "dumbing" about bailing people out and not forcing them to take responsibility for their own actions. I see too many people who honestly become "stupid" because they are not allowed to "suffer" negative consequences for their actions.
It worries me to see so many people who are so very ignorant in this country. I know living in Missississippi where you are rewarded for having children out of wedlcok and getting on crack by the goverment is probably much more noticable than in other areas of the country where it's not multi-generational and rampant. (people who allow the gov. to support their family tend to have larger ones than those who believe's it's the "parents" responsbility to support their own children so there is a greater number of children born here on gov. assistant than not) It's about to drive me nut!!!!!
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RE: Where does Personal Responsibility come into play? - 8/27/2008 9:52:43 AM
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NoShow
Posts: 461
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quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
They were predatory loans that 25 years ago were illegal, and should still be so.
Who made them legal? The government.
Who is everyone looking to, for a solution to this problem? The government.
If we're going to ask the government to admit that they screwed up, maybe we should take on a warm-up task like stopping hunger or achieving world peace, first.
< Message edited by NoShow -- 8/27/2008 10:15:50 AM >
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RE: Where does Personal Responsibility come into play? - 8/27/2008 9:53:57 AM
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GroupW
Posts: 2911
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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Someone earlier said it well. That may be the theoretically "right" thing to do, but without some sort of intervention here, things could get very, very ugly. It could hurt the guilty and the innocent equally.
When my kid does something stupid, I don't always allow natural consequences to take their course. Usually I do. Sometimes however, the natural consequences are fairly large and involve other innocent kids. Sometimes there is an intermediate solution that teaches him the lesson he needs to know without everyone bearing the full weight of the rightful consequences.
If the economy continues to slip due to the credit crisis, we will have a recession. Many thousands will be unemployed, of which only a fraction had anything to do with this mess. Many retirees will see their nest egg continue to shrink. Many kids coming out of school will get placed in sub-par occupations and it will take them years to get their careers on track (ask me about that one!)
If you can engineer a solution that avoids all that, but still allows sufficient numbers of people to feel sufficient pain to avoid making similar mistakes again, why wouldn't you do that?
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Where does Personal Responsibility come into play? - 8/27/2008 10:39:02 AM
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P31W
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You know what. I am involved in three threads on these forums. One in the Prostent only folder, this one and another one in the current events folder.
They all involved a debate bewteen people who don't want to take personal responsibility for their own actions and people who believe we should.
One involved gov. welfare and we are "not to judge" those people rather just give them what they ask for and in the other thread people are upset because insurance companies charge more if you are fat and smoke.
Do we cry or laugh?
People want their freedom but they want it at someone elses expense.
quote:
If you can engineer a solution that avoids all that, but still allows sufficient numbers of people to feel sufficient pain to avoid making similar mistakes again, why wouldn't you do that?
We force them to join the military so they can grow up, act like responsible adults and learn that with freedom there comes a price that someone must pay.
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RE: Where does Personal Responsibility come into play? - 8/27/2008 11:07:07 AM
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NoShow
Posts: 461
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
People want their freedom but they want it at someone elses expense.
Those things aren't components of "freedom".
I guess it goes, material possessions, slothfulness, gluttony, narcotics...then personal responsibility.
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RE: Where does Personal Responsibility come into play? - 8/27/2008 7:25:56 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1963
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: NoShow
quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
They were predatory loans that 25 years ago were illegal, and should still be so.
Who made them legal? The government.
Who is everyone looking to, for a solution to this problem? The government.
If we're going to ask the government to admit that they screwed up, maybe we should take on a warm-up task like stopping hunger or achieving world peace, first.
I think the problem is that that if we are going to have regular bail-outs, we should at least have regulations.
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RE: Where does Personal Responsibility come into play? - 9/5/2008 2:39:07 PM
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ekserekseez
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This whole issue of money and what you do with it is really interesting to me. I am the first to admit that I made my money the old fashioned way: I inherited it. Except for a few years in the military, I have never done an honest day's work in my life, because I have never had to (and I was probably the laziest soldier that the US Army has ever seen, although I did get an honorable discharge). My family has had a lot of money for a long time, and they believe in keeping it in the family. I don't apologize for it. If Gramps wanted to give me way more cash than was good for me, why is it anyone else's business?
The thing that amused me is this: there are all sorts of people out there who claim to be conservative, pro-small-government, anti-tax, pro-property rights, etc. Once they hear that I don't have to actually do anything to earn my play cash, they suddenly have a zillion reasons why my money should go somewhere else.
So where is the personal responsibility in this? I admit, I waste a lot of money that I'm sure would be useful to others. I give plenty away too, but if you have money, nobody cares about that. I can understand liberals, who by definition want to re-distribute everyone else's stuff. But what's the deal with so-called conservatives who think that wealth is okay, as long as you spend it the way they would?
I'm just wondering if there are any other fiscal conservatives (you might be socially conservative too, sometimes they go together!) who have faced this too?
Just wondering! It's a topic in which I have considerable academic interest.
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RE: Where does Personal Responsibility come into play? - 9/5/2008 2:51:39 PM
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P31W
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quote:
But what's the deal with so-called conservatives who think that wealth is okay, as long as you spend it the way they would?
I don't care what you do with your inheritance. I know scripture teaches us about "wise stewardship" but that I only teach to people who want to be followers of Christ. To the lost individual what they do with their money is of little concern to me unless they are trying to use it to defeat God's work.
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RE: Where does Personal Responsibility come into play? - 9/5/2008 2:53:37 PM
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ekserekseez
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P31W:
Thanks for the response! I wish there were more "conservatives" like you. I'm the first to admit that "wise stewardship" is not my strong point, but I don't take what's not mine, and I give away plenty.
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RE: Where does Personal Responsibility come into play? - 9/7/2008 3:21:45 PM
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macokjc
Posts: 264
Joined: 2/24/2008
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quote:
But what's the deal with so-called conservatives who think that wealth is okay, as long as you spend it the way they would?
I have been quite conservative my entire life, and I'm not this way, and nobody else I know is this way. In fact, Republicans are the ones who keep trying to repeal the "death tax." It doesn't bother me at all that you have money, or that you don't work. Now, if you didn't work and we were paying for you to live, that would bother me.
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RE: Where does Personal Responsibility come into play? - 9/7/2008 3:47:18 PM
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ekserekseez
Posts: 692
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Thanks macokjc! That's what I like to hear. A true conservative!
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RE: Where does Personal Responsibility come into play? - 9/9/2008 12:56:21 PM
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P31W
Posts: 3005
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ekserekseez
You still around. I wonder if the root of the problem you seem to have with certain conservatives is they want you to do more with your life and the money is a tool you can use to accomplish more than just having fun? (I have your father in mind and things you have said about him)
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RE: Where does Personal Responsibility come into play? - 9/9/2008 2:19:41 PM
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ekserekseez
Posts: 692
Joined: 7/3/2008
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P31W:
I dunno, maybe. I'd certainly like to see my father have more fun! The only conservatives I have problems with are the ones who say they are, and then are not.
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RE: Where does Personal Responsibility come into play? - 9/9/2008 3:04:41 PM
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NoShow
Posts: 461
Joined: 5/10/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ekserekseez
The thing that amused me is this: there are all sorts of people out there who claim to be conservative, pro-small-government, anti-tax, pro-property rights, etc. Once they hear that I don't have to actually do anything to earn my play cash, they suddenly have a zillion reasons why my money should go somewhere else.
So where is the personal responsibility in this? I admit, I waste a lot of money that I'm sure would be useful to others. I give plenty away too, but if you have money, nobody cares about that. I can understand liberals, who by definition want to re-distribute everyone else's stuff. But what's the deal with so-called conservatives who think that wealth is okay, as long as you spend it the way they would?
I'm just wondering if there are any other fiscal conservatives (you might be socially conservative too, sometimes they go together!) who have faced this too?
Just wondering! It's a topic in which I have considerable academic interest.
I, nor any of the conservatives that I know, have that kind of ideals.
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