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Creationism - 8/16/2008 9:14:25 AM
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kellybell4770
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I have been faced with trying to prove that God created the earth and all that is in it. Does anyone out there have any links to scientific evidence that a non-believer could look at and maybe say hmmmm? Thanks!
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< Message edited by Consecrated2God -- 8/20/2008 7:56:43 AM >
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RE: Creationism - 8/16/2008 1:01:50 PM
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rcjames
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I would try the Bible.
Thanks
RC
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RE: Creationism - 8/16/2008 2:53:03 PM
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kellybell4770
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
I would try the Bible.
Thanks
RC
Wow - I hope that you are kidding because if not that would be awfully rude - and the bible doesn't do any good if a person doesn't believe that it is the infallible word of God.
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RE: Creationism - 8/16/2008 3:37:05 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kellybell4770
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
I would try the Bible.
Thanks
RC
Wow - I hope that you are kidding because if not that would be awfully rude - and the bible doesn't do any good if a person doesn't believe that it is the infallible word of God.
Not rude at all, I believe the Bible, and the Bible says God created the Heavens and the earth in the beginning.
If other folks don't want to believe it; then that is their loss.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Creationism - 8/16/2008 9:12:35 PM
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kellybell4770
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: kellybell4770
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
I would try the Bible.
Thanks
RC
Wow - I hope that you are kidding because if not that would be awfully rude - and the bible doesn't do any good if a person doesn't believe that it is the infallible word of God.
Not rude at all, I believe the Bible, and the Bible says God created the Heavens and the earth in the beginning.
If other folks don't want to believe it; then that is their loss.
Thanks
RC
Unfortunately Mr. James, it's not so black and white with many people - my job is try to take as many souls with me to heaven and to do that I have to be able to reach the unreachable.
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RE: Creationism - 8/16/2008 9:57:35 PM
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BillBaileyBFAFan
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RCJames was at least very short, if not rude.
I completely understand your dilema. The Institute for Creation Research is a good place to start. They are some videos out there that make the case for creation using strictly scientific evidence, and some that use strictly Biblical evidence.
Also Dr. Kent Hovind www.drdino.com is a good source. I really like his seminar. You can find those on Ebay alot, pretty cheap. he doesnt copyright his materials, so people can freely copy and distribute them.
Another source is Back To Genesis with Dr. Ken Ham. He is an Australlian fellow and a very good apologist for creation.
It's not nearly as simple as RCJames would have you believe. There are even many Christians who don't believe in a young earth. They need to be convinced as much as unbelievers.
The Bible while sufficient for "most" Christians will not convince non-believers. Fortunately for us, God left very distinct markers in His creation for us to use as evidence against evolutionists. The earth bares record of his creation.
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RE: Creationism - 8/16/2008 10:04:33 PM
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DreadPirateRandy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
If other folks don't want to believe it; then that is their loss.
Other folks don't view the Bible as a credible book for the origin of life. They rely on scientific data that is otherwise unproven to base their faith on. The Bible, to them, is unscientific garbage. (I've heard this from the mouth of evolutionists, agnostics, and atheists alike.)
To an unbeliever, pointing them to a Bible does not much good. They don't believe that "fairytale", you must find another way to present it to them.
Kelly, I recommend this website:
http://www.thewaythetruth.com/
There's college classes, seminars, articles, and so on about creationism. The website was created by a very well known Christian on YouTube, VenomFangX, I also recommend checking out his videos as well. Amazing stuff. In fact, he's doing a series right now called, "Evolution wants to make a monkey out of you".
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RE: Creationism - 8/17/2008 12:42:56 AM
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Kath
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This thread is not about RCJames and any perceived rudeness. Move on.
Sincerely
Kath
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RE: Creationism - 8/17/2008 10:16:14 PM
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iluvatar
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kellybell4770
I have been faced with trying to prove that God created the earth and all that is in it. Does anyone out there have any links to scientific evidence that a non-believer could look at and maybe say hmmmm? Thanks!
God is outside the bounds of scientific measurement - no science can prove that He does or does not exist or that He did or did not do something. That's why our belief in him is based on faith.
What you can do is find and present evidence supporting various theories of geological, astronomical, biological, etc development, be they centered around a long time frame or a short one. No scientific theory declares that there is no God and many people believe that current scientific theories regarding the long-term formation of the universe are compatible with belief in a God who created all of it.
quote:
Also Dr. Kent Hovind www.drdino.com is a good source. I really like his seminar. You can find those on Ebay alot, pretty cheap. he doesnt copyright his materials, so people can freely copy and distribute them.
No, "Dr" Kent Hovind is not a good source. Even putting aside my belief that most/all of YEC "science" is pretty much vaccuous, Kent Hovind is not one to be used as a source for scientific information. Even within the greater YEC community, his ideas and theories are regarded as wacky and unsupported.
-Dan.
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Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Creationism - 8/18/2008 7:20:33 AM
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PolarBear
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My observations are that evidence doesn't work with most nonbelievers. It really is a spiritual battle, and they come to Christ by the beckoning of the Holy Spirit. See 1 Cor 2:1-5. When the Spirit beckons, they will begin to take the Bible seriously. So in that I agree with RCJames.
Having said that, I love studying Creation from an old-earth perspective, and I think there is an over-abundance of great evidence for the God of the Bible there. It has strengthened my faith immeasurably. Some good resources are at:
http://reasons.org
http://godandscience.org
http://www.answersincreation.org
< Message edited by PolarBear -- 8/18/2008 7:26:49 AM >
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RE: Creationism - 8/18/2008 8:39:50 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BillBaileyBFAFan
It's not nearly as simple as RCJames would have you believe. There are even many Christians who don't believe in a young earth. They need to be convinced as much as unbelievers.
I did not say anything about a "Young earth".
Jesus Himself said;
(Joh 17:19) And I sanctify Myself for their sakes, so that they also might be sanctified in truth.
(Joh 17:20) And I do not pray for these alone, but for those also who shall believe on Me through their word,
So folks will believe on Christ through the words of the diciples i.e. The Bible. The same holds true concerning creation.
Now having said that; you might watch this video by Kirk Cameron about God and the Banana. HERE.
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Creationism - 8/18/2008 8:55:16 AM
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TorchHeart
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kellybell4770
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: kellybell4770
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
I would try the Bible.
Thanks
RC
Wow - I hope that you are kidding because if not that would be awfully rude - and the bible doesn't do any good if a person doesn't believe that it is the infallible word of God.
Not rude at all, I believe the Bible, and the Bible says God created the Heavens and the earth in the beginning.
If other folks don't want to believe it; then that is their loss.
Thanks
RC
Unfortunately Mr. James, it's not so black and white with many people - my job is try to take as many souls with me to heaven and to do that I have to be able to reach the unreachable.
And that is an EXCELLENT goal!! And I commend you for this effort!
But if that is your goal, perhaps you want to focus more on Biblical teaching that is more in tune with helping achieve that, than concentrating on something that (at least in my view) is quite minor, such as evolution vs creationism (especially in a black and white setting, where God either is or is not present in the creation of the univers).
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RE: Creationism - 8/18/2008 8:57:04 AM
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Kath
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Lets not turn this thread into another Young Earth debate, we have plenty of threads in Science for that. Lets just stick to the OP.
Sincerely
Kath
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Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
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RE: Creationism - 8/18/2008 8:58:18 AM
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iluvatar
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Now having said that; you might watch this video by Kirk Cameron about God and the Banana. HERE.
LOL! I'd heard about that, but never seen it. It's good for a laugh, but the comments sum up pretty well why this is a terrible argument. If you don't feel like wading through the ones about bananas being used as non-food objects, I'll summarize:
* The banana they show is a domesticated variety; wild bananas are smaller and full or large seeds.
* What about the pineapple or coconut?
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Creationism - 8/18/2008 9:00:50 AM
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Kath
Posts: 17138
Joined: 2/28/2005
Status: online
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You may have missed my nudge. Stick to the topic, this is not a debate thread.
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RE: Creationism - 8/18/2008 9:02:51 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1952
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kath
You may have missed my nudge. Stick to the topic, this is not a debate thread.
Indeed I did. I understand the concern and wish to respect it. I realize it gets kind of hairy in there, but perhaps the whole thread should just be moved to the science folder. How can you ask for material on a subject w/o allowing for people to chime in and say, "No, that material is poor, don't use it."? This isn't the first time I've seen this come up.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Creationism - 8/18/2008 9:10:33 AM
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Kath
Posts: 17138
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Is there a thread similar to this one in there already? We don't need another one if I can just link.
We do need to offer the OP suggestions instead of just turning it into a debate.
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RE: Creationism - 8/18/2008 9:16:40 AM
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TorchHeart
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I think you guys closed that one, Kath.
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RE: Creationism - 8/18/2008 9:36:55 AM
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Kath
Posts: 17138
Joined: 2/28/2005
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Ok, moving this from GFT to Theo-Science. There's a new sheriff in town in there so please make sure this doesn't just turn into another debate on creationism. The OP needs practical suggestions.
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RE: Creationism - 8/18/2008 12:09:52 PM
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drj11
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kellybell4770
I have been faced with trying to prove that God created the earth and all that is in it. Does anyone out there have any links to scientific evidence that a non-believer could look at and maybe say hmmmm? Thanks!
Are you trying to prove the literal 6 day creation of Genesis, or just that God exists?
With whatever resources you use, be sure to also look here (Index of creationist claims). You will see almost every 'scientific' creationist argument indexed, and refuted on this page. I would hope you would keep an open mind as you read the refutations, but at the very least you can be prepared for the types of rebuttals you will likely receive from the people you are trying to evangelize too.
But.. you should change tactics I think. The best arguments for God are philosophical... the natural world as understood through science simply does not support a literal 6 day creation, one bit.
Edit: Also I think it's wise to consider a quote I have posted on these forums before, in light of this thread. This is a quote from Augustine.
"Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he hold to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods and on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion."
< Message edited by drj11 -- 8/18/2008 12:19:22 PM >
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RE: Creationism - 8/18/2008 12:47:26 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kellybell4770
I have been faced with trying to prove that God created the earth and all that is in it. Does anyone out there have any links to scientific evidence that a non-believer could look at and maybe say hmmmm? Thanks!
Why do you feel you must "prove" it?
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