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RE: Creationism - 8/18/2008 1:03:50 PM
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Consecrated2God
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Hi, Kellybell,
A couple of good websites are Institute for Creation Research and Answers In Genesis. I rely on these websites a lot for answers.
Most people (especially in the United States) do believe that God created the world. God put that in the hearts of all men. Deep down inside, everyone believes God exists, which is why there is no excuse for those who choose to deny Him.
Here's what the Bible says about that:
Romans 1:18-22 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools.
In the United States, only 15% of the population believes that God had no hand in creation. It's deep down in the heart of every man to believe in God. If your friends haven't hardened their hearts against God too much, there is still hope. 
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RE: Creationism - 8/18/2008 2:48:40 PM
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drj11
Posts: 632
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
Hi, Kellybell,
A couple of good websites are Institute for Creation Research and Answers In Genesis. I rely on these websites a lot for answers.
Most people (especially in the United States) do believe that God created the world. God put that in the hearts of all men. Deep down inside, everyone believes God exists, which is why there is no excuse for those who choose to deny Him.
Here's what the Bible says about that:
Romans 1:18-22 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools.
In the United States, only 15% of the population believes that God had no hand in creation. It's deep down in the heart of every man to believe in God. If your friends haven't hardened their hearts against God too much, there is still hope.
It should be noted that this does not mean 75% of the population believe in creationism (YEC). If the Gallup poll on the issue is to be believed, it is about a 40%-40% tie between evolution and creationism. Note that it is evolution and creationism (YEC) that are mutually exclusive, not evolution and a belief in God. So some of that 75% that believe God created life, believe that he did it with evolution.
(Edited by Moderator to remove link for violation of TOS 15)
The title of this thread suggests the OP is really after scientific evidence for creationism, and not necessarily the more broad question of the existence of a God as a creator. I could be wrong, maybe the OP can clarify, because the questions need to be addressed differently. But in either case, there is no conclusive scientific evidence that will really satisfy your average educated skeptic. In fact, I would say if conversion is your goal, it would be best to avoid YEC all together when trying to convince a skeptical minded secular person, as you will probably turn them off even more to Christianity. You can make a convincing case philosophically, but there simply is no scientific case for the existence of God. The best you can get is ID, and most secularists would rightly dismiss it as creationism is disguise, or at best, a neat but under researched idea that can't be supported very well at this time.
< Message edited by Consecrated2God -- 8/18/2008 7:39:45 PM >
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RE: Creationism - 8/18/2008 3:25:07 PM
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drmark
Posts: 3133
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quote:
quote:
I have been faced with trying to prove that God created the earth and all that is in it. Does anyone out there have any links to scientific evidence that a non-believer could look at and maybe say hmmmm? Thanks!
Why do you feel you must "prove" it? I rarely agree with cow on any matter of origins but I'm also quite concerned about why "you feel you must "prove" it", kellybell. Do you consider divine creation as described in Genesis to be essential Christian doctrine? Do you realize that there is NO observational science that can conclusively demonstrate the mechanism of a one-time event such as the creation of the earth? Is scientific knowledge more important to salvation than saving faith? Just curious.
BTW, the three websites listed by PolarBear in post #12 are excellent resources!
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Creationism - 8/18/2008 4:49:06 PM
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bluestone
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I have found that the best way to witness to someone is to tell them about Jesus. Not discuss politics or evolution and creation, or current events. Many will do as the woman at the well did, and try to change the subject to these matters. Stick to the spiritual needs of the person.
Many Christians who love God and follow Him believe that He used evolutionary processes in His Creation of the Earth. That is a disucssion you can have with your friend AFTER he or she is saved. first matters first.
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RE: Creationism - 8/18/2008 7:30:30 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4974
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quote:
quote:
In the United States, only 15% of the population believes that God had no hand in creation. It's deep down in the heart of every man to believe in God. If your friends haven't hardened their hearts against God too much, there is still hope.
It should be noted that this does not mean 75% of the population believe in creationism (YEC). If the Gallup poll on the issue is to be believed, it is about a 40%-40% tie between evolution and creationism. Note that it is evolution and creationism (YEC) that are mutually exclusive, not evolution and a belief in God. So some of that 75% that believe God created life, believe that he did it with evolution.
One-hundred minus fifteen is eighty-five, not seventy-five, so it's 85% of the population that believes in some sort of creation.
Here are the numbers:
God created humans in present form: 51%
Humans evolved, God guided the process: 30%
Humans evolved, God did not guide process: 15%
Source
quote:
I have found that the best way to witness to someone is to tell them about Jesus. Not discuss politics or evolution and creation, or current events. Many will do as the woman at the well did, and try to change the subject to these matters. Stick to the spiritual needs of the person
I agree with this. Many people when you try and witness to them will try and take you down a sidepath, and the whole point is to distract you. You're busy telling them how much God loves them and how much they need Jesus and they want to know where Cain got his wife. They don't really want an answer, they want to get you off the subject. God's creation is undeniable. Anyone with eyes can look at the stars and know there's a God. We just need to help connect people with Him.
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RE: Creationism - 8/18/2008 7:59:42 PM
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ianz
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
One-hundred minus fifteen is eighty-five, not seventy-five, so it's 85% of the population that believes in some sort of creation.
Here are the numbers:
God created humans in present form: 51%
Humans evolved, God guided the process: 30%
Humans evolved, God did not guide process: 15%
Source
Just to be clear, those numbers add to 96%, so actually it's 51+30 = 81% who believe God was involved (presumably 4% of responses were invalid). It might be higher than this, since question 1 does not actually infer non-belief in God:
"1. Human beings evolved from less advanced life forms over millions of years, and God did not directly guide this process"
The survey really required an additional question, to identify those who believe there is no God involvement at all, whether direct or indirect.
These are quite interesting numbers. 51% are basically YEC. The article notes:
"The results were not much different between the answers to that question and those given when a specific timeline was included in the final alternative: God created human beings in their present form within the last 10,000 years."
But while YEC holds a majority, it's not by a great margin. We basically have 51% of respondents taking a YEC position, and 45% taking an old-Earth, evolved life position, and this is only just outside the error margin of 4%.
Interestingly, while 51% take the YEC position, some 90% think it is possible to believe in both God and evolution. This suggests to me that most people don't really care that much about how or when we came about (since so many are prepared to allow for evolution, even if it contradicts their own belief).
Regards, Ian
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RE: Creationism - 8/18/2008 8:22:01 PM
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DreadPirateRandy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
Deep down inside, everyone believes God exists, which is why there is no excuse for those who choose to deny Him.
I find it egotistical to right off the existence of God by denying something no one can disprove.
It's equivalent to myself staring you in the face and saying, "Consecrated, you do not exist". Even though you're right in front of me, I make a decision to deny something that I can't disprove based on what I see before me.
This is the problem. We fix our eyes on everything that is only temporary, but what disregard the unseen, which is eternal.
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RE: Creationism - 8/18/2008 9:07:33 PM
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Veritas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DreadPirateRandy
quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
Deep down inside, everyone believes God exists, which is why there is no excuse for those who choose to deny Him.
I find it egotistical to right off the existence of God by denying something no one can disprove.
It's equivalent to myself staring you in the face and saying, "Consecrated, you do not exist". Even though you're right in front of me, I make a decision to deny something that I can't disprove based on what I see before me.
This is the problem. We fix our eyes on everything that is only temporary, but what disregard the unseen, which is eternal.
I find it very presumptuous to say "deep down inside, everyone believes God exists".
Not everyone believes God exists.
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RE: Creationism - 8/18/2008 9:26:40 PM
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drmark
Posts: 3133
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quote:
I find it egotistical to right off the existence of God by denying something no one can disprove. Indeed, DPR, denying God is the epitome of egotistical pride!
quote:
I find it very presumptuous to say "deep down inside, everyone believes God exists". I find it very presumptuous to deny God's Word, but it happens routinely in these Forums. The unrighteous are quite good at suppressing the truth!
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Creationism - 8/18/2008 9:46:33 PM
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Veritas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
I find it very presumptuous to say "deep down inside, everyone believes God exists". I find it very presumptuous to deny God's Word, but it happens routinely in these Forums. The unrighteous are quite good at suppressing the truth!
I'm sure you do. Just as a Muslim might find is both presumptuous to deny the words of God's prophet.
I wouldn't presume to claim to know what someone else believes deep down inside. Consecrated2God does not know what I think deep down. And shouldn't presume to know either.
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RE: Creationism - 8/18/2008 10:04:01 PM
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drmark
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Which is why she quoted Scripture as the basis of her conclusion. But of course that is meaningless to you, veritas.
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Creationism - 8/18/2008 11:38:24 PM
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essentialsaltes
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
Which is why she quoted Scripture as the basis of her conclusion. But of course that is meaningless to you, veritas.
Whether in scripture or not, it doesn't change what I believe deep down inside.
_____________________________
"My object in all arguments is not to make any preconceived opinion of mine seem right, but merely to discover and establish the truth, whatever the truth may be."
-- HP Lovecraft, letter to Robert E. Howard 7/27-28/34
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RE: Creationism - 8/19/2008 10:31:45 AM
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drmark
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quote:
Whether in scripture or not, it doesn't change what I believe deep down inside. Indeed, atheists are deceiving themselves - Psalm 14:1!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Creationism - 8/19/2008 10:52:37 AM
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drmark
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quote:
Scripture is errant after all! 1 Corinthians 2:14
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Creationism - 8/19/2008 12:17:35 PM
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Consecrated2God
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
The OP is asking for resources on how to witness to his (or her) friends. This is not a debate thread. If you are an athiest, my guess is you aren't here to encourage the OP to witness to his friends, so there is no reason for you to be posting in this thread.
Again, to make it clear, if you are athiest, this is NOT a thread for you. Only CHRISTIANS should be posting in this thread.
Sincerely,
Lisa Luper
Moderator
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
< Message edited by Fritzpw_Admin -- 8/20/2008 8:14:37 AM >
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RE: Creationism - 8/19/2008 1:34:03 PM
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PolarBear
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drj11
In fact, I would say if conversion is your goal, it would be best to avoid YEC all together when trying to convince a skeptical minded secular person, as you will probably turn them off even more to Christianity.
Very very very very VERY wise words!
quote:
You can make a convincing case philosophically, but there simply is no scientific case for the existence of God.
That not so much. Evidence for design in nature, which exists in abundance, *is* evidence for God. Perhaps not complete proof, but evidence nevertheless. The more design there is, the stronger the case.
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http://victorymuseum.org
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RE: Creationism - 8/19/2008 4:27:48 PM
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drmark
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Not at all PB! The scientific evidence for a young world is just as robust as for a created world. It's just that 100+ years of brainwashing by secular education "authorities" often makes it much harder for many to accept YE chronology as readily as scientific creationism. You're a great example! 
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Creationism - 8/19/2008 4:49:55 PM
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drj11
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
Not at all PB! The scientific evidence for a young world is just as robust as for a created world. It's just that 100+ years of brainwashing by secular education "authorities" often makes it much harder for many to accept YE chronology as readily as scientific creationism. You're a great example!
You really are quite confusing. I think we have you on record in a number of other threads stating that there is no scientific evidence for YEC. Specifically I remember in the 'Scientific evidence for a young earth' thread you stated there was no scientific evidence, but that one should believe it anyways. Something to do with thinking that all 'origins' science is speculative, philosophical and unscientific. Which is it? Is there evidence or isnt there, and if so, how bout presenting in in the thread I created for it?
< Message edited by drj11 -- 8/19/2008 4:56:03 PM >
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RE: Creationism - 8/19/2008 5:20:54 PM
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drmark
Posts: 3133
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quote:
You really are quite confusing. Been there, done that, drj! You misunderstand me so I will clarify. The evidence is all the same. One's interpretation of the evidence based on preconceived assumptions leads to conclusions. Robust evidence supports YE chronology - it's been presented in numerous threads besides yours. You choose to interpret it through your religion of uniformitarian naturalism. I'm sorry you cannot accept this simple fact.
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Creationism - 8/19/2008 5:25:45 PM
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Consecrated2God
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ATTENTION: Moderator's Note
Please bring this Thread back on Topic. Thank you.
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
Thank you for your attention and complicance in this matter.
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RE: Creationism - 8/19/2008 7:28:41 PM
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Consecrated2God
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Ianz,
Please email community@salemwebnetwork.com concerning the status of your account. Please allow time for a response.
Please do not post under this handle or any other until you have heard from the administrator.
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RE: Creationism - 8/20/2008 8:00:51 AM
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Consecrated2God
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Guessed,
Please email community@salemwebnetwork.com concerning the status of your account. Please allow time for a response.
Please do not post under this handle or any other until you have heard from the administrator.
Sincerely
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Please do not send me PMs regarding this message as I am unable to discuss it further.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns. Please allow time for a response.
Posts which ignore this warning will be removed without warning and may result in other action in accordance with the Terms of Service.
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RE: Creationism - 8/20/2008 8:01:32 AM
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Consecrated2God
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
Only Christians may post in this thread. This is not a debate thread.
Sincerely,
Lisa Luper,
Moderator
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
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