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Too much Church? - 8/18/2008 2:28:02 PM
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sunofone
Posts: 552
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My wife and I, were discussing the other day about a practice which I think is unique to our particular denomination.All of my life I've grown up in Pentecostal style churches,mostly small congregations,as little as twenty-five members to maybe fifty or so.
Here lately my wife and I have joined a larger congregation of about five hundred committed faithful members with roughly fifteen hundred in attendance on most Sundays.
Anyway this church just like the others have fellowship services scheduled weekly with various churches.Sometimes we go to them and other times they come to us.
The problem that my wife and I have is keeping up with attending them all.Here lately we've began to question our commitment.I'm wondering are we just not good old fashioned committed members or are we just slam wore out?
Is it even possible or ok to be wore out?We have a four year old which we have a hard time keeping him on a good sleep schedule when we have evening services.I always feel guilty for even questioning this to begin with.
I feel guilty mentioning this part as well,but I want to give full disclosure.It is a tremendous financial strain to keep up with.We live about 40 miles from the Church and we live down south where services are not always close by.
So there is the price of gas,not to mention the offerings.We're committed to our weekly services,but are beginning to wonder if we have to keep this torrid pace up ad infinitum?
Last thing.Our Pastor makes a pretty good turn on the dollar,every time he preaches away.We're talking $2,000.00 minimum.
Ministry being his full time job,going to these services for him pays him in the neighborhood of $100,000.00 a year.I don't begrudge him his hire,it's just that,while he make out great financially,I'm suffering.
I guess it's time to take my spanking like a man,from those who think I'm being negative.So let the spanking commence!
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/18/2008 2:49:07 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6614
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I've been a member of churches with attendances ranging from ~20 to those over 2,000. One difference in larger churches is that they provide much more ministry than is even possible in a small church. That means a lot of meetings aren't intended for most everyone. And large churches, generally, don't expect you to be there nearly as much as a small one. The largers ones I have belonged are not nearly as bothered if you aren't there every time the door opens as smaller ones seem to be.
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/18/2008 2:54:39 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3969
Joined: 5/6/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sunofone
My wife and I, were discussing the other day about a practice which I think is unique to our particular denomination.All of my life I've grown up in Pentecostal style churches,mostly small congregations,as little as twenty-five members to maybe fifty or so.
Here lately my wife and I have joined a larger congregation of about five hundred committed faithful members with roughly fifteen hundred in attendance on most Sundays.
Anyway this church just like the others have fellowship services scheduled weekly with various churches.Sometimes we go to them and other times they come to us.
The problem that my wife and I have is keeping up with attending them all.Here lately we've began to question our commitment.I'm wondering are we just not good old fashioned committed members or are we just slam wore out?
Is it even possible or ok to be wore out?We have a four year old which we have a hard time keeping him on a good sleep schedule when we have evening services.I always feel guilty for even questioning this to begin with.
I feel guilty mentioning this part as well,but I want to give full disclosure.It is a tremendous financial strain to keep up with.We live about 40 miles from the Church and we live down south where services are not always close by.
So there is the price of gas,not to mention the offerings.We're committed to our weekly services,but are beginning to wonder if we have to keep this torrid pace up ad infinitum?
Last thing.Our Pastor makes a pretty good turn on the dollar,every time he preaches away.We're talking $2,000.00 minimum.
Ministry being his full time job,going to these services for him pays him in the neighborhood of $100,000.00 a year.I don't begrudge him his hire,it's just that,while he make out great financially,I'm suffering.
I guess it's time to take my spanking like a man,from those who think I'm being negative.So let the spanking commence!
Mark 2:27, KJV:
And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/18/2008 3:19:55 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5657
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From: Oklahoma
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Too much Church? I would say not enough;
(Act 2:46) And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/18/2008 3:58:38 PM
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sunofone
Posts: 552
Joined: 10/11/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
I've been a member of churches with attendances ranging from ~20 to those over 2,000. One difference in larger churches is that they provide much more ministry than is even possible in a small church. That means a lot of meetings aren't intended for most everyone. And large churches, generally, don't expect you to be there nearly as much as a small one. The largers ones I have belonged are not nearly as bothered if you aren't there every time the door opens as smaller ones seem to be.
I would agree with this as well.My Pastor does make a general plea that when church is in session that we be there.I've never had anyone single me out for not being there,I do get recognized for being faithful though.
I guess I'm just wondering how much is enough,or even if that's a fair question to begin with.Just checking my heart.If I were single,I probably wouldn't question it much at all.
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/18/2008 4:01:14 PM
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sunofone
Posts: 552
Joined: 10/11/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Too much Church? I would say not enough;
(Act 2:46) And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Thanks
RC
I know you're a Pastor so what do you think is fair in taxing the members for extra scheduled fellowships?Not looking for a specific # as much as a direct response to my OP is all.Thanks
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/18/2008 4:32:50 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6198
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From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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Ah, the good ole 'Churchianity' rat race..
Allow me to share an older post of mine that I feel has great relevance to this thread, to your question and dilemma:
Many people today are duped into thinking God being first = church/ministry time. Nope.
God being first = one's personal relationship with God. Church/family time for the layman is to be, according to my humble opinion, fourth on our list.
1) God (one's personal living daily relationship with our Savior, Jesus Christ)
2) Family
3) Work (the jobs God allows you to have so that you can provide for your family)
4) Church (time for church, ministry, bible classes, etc)
5) Friends
And 4/5 are interchangeable if need be.
The only reason I say this is because I have known way too many people who are duped into thinking putting God first equals being at church or involved at church all of the time they can (giving the pastor free time to do nothing while being paid for full time ministry), some every night of the week, and their homes, their families are in ruins.
Kids hungry and with no stability, sitting in church way after 9:00 PM still in their school uniform, dozing off in the pews, and not being cared for, homework not being done, kids running the streets, husbands not attended to, house is all dirty and in shambles, laundry not done because there is no time, bills stacking up, etc etc.. all because they have to be involved in any and every ministry.
Our family, our home is to be our number one ministry. Not giving a class on Thursday night for the youth when your home is not in order.
People get burned out in churches that guilt them or expect them to be present at every single function and service. Sorry, we go to church to worship God, not to be seen by men and get their approval for showing up.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/18/2008 4:48:30 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2911
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It's kind of interesting - if you pair Cow451's answer and RC's together, you might find two equally good and closely related solutions.
Cow451 - The sabbath was indeed made for man, not man for the sabbath. Originally, the intent was for rest. If it's driving you to poverty and exhaustion, it's not rest. Hence, not much of a sabbath.
RC - Folks did meet daily for bread and community. There was a LOT of "church" giong on! Of a particularly wholesome and loving variety, it's important to add.
Combining the two posts, maybe the issue isn't one of quantity, but of quality. A little less quantity and a little more quality - of community, fellowship, support, and rest - might go a long way toward easing your burden.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/18/2008 5:21:06 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6614
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
It's kind of interesting - if you pair Cow451's answer and RC's together, you might find two equally good and closely related solutions.
Cow451 - The sabbath was indeed made for man, not man for the sabbath. Originally, the intent was for rest. If it's driving you to poverty and exhaustion, it's not rest. Hence, not much of a sabbath.
RC - Folks did meet daily for bread and community. There was a LOT of "church" giong on! Of a particularly wholesome and loving variety, it's important to add.
Combining the two posts, maybe the issue isn't one of quantity, but of quality. A little less quantity and a little more quality - of community, fellowship, support, and rest - might go a long way toward easing your burden.
Good point.
Plus, some of those good people just might need a little break from my company once in a while.
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/18/2008 5:23:09 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2911
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From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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I decided a long time ago that noone really wants to see me 4 times a week
Except my wife, and she's not normal.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/18/2008 5:35:07 PM
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jayvance
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No spanking from this quarter. Take care of your family, my brother, take care of your own vineyard first so you'll have a genuine witness to the world. Being at the church every time the doors are open may have less to do with fulfilling God's will for your life than it does with fulfilling the pastor's will for your life. No offense to your pastor specifically, I simply mean the way we "do church" in this day and age is generally more about propagating a man-made vision than it is about "pleasing God." By all means, serve God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength--but only you and God can ultimately determine what that looks like in YOUR life.
Jay
< Message edited by jayvance -- 8/18/2008 7:02:24 PM >
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/18/2008 6:29:12 PM
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sunofone
Posts: 552
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The responses have been great and much appreciated.I was expecting to get spanked,to my surprise I've received some very helpful instruction,thanks.
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/18/2008 7:02:32 PM
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GroupW
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From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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I'm sure that if you perceive we've offered useful instruction, you must have misunderstood us in some fashion ;)
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/18/2008 7:20:02 PM
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LBolt
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Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt!! I was in a church, my previous church of about 3,000-5,000 where the revivals were every day for two weeks, you were expected to dress in identical colors, on top of give an offering nightly, serve in the service... All the "who's who" in Christian preachers, with promises of "financial harvest" if I sacrificed...I would leave tired and broke...This was revival mind you. LOL!!
The regular week service was Sunday, Tues, Thursday and back again on Sunday. My wife would have to to practice on Wed for praise team. You talking about whipped!! All this while have two young kids. And being "in ministry" and leadership, you were expected to be at service. Oh, I forgot...service on Sunday was at 8:30 am and 11:00 am. We were intercessors and were there early at 7:30 am on Sunday. This was my life for about 12 years. Basically the same messages preached...How many ways can you make chicken!!! LOL!!
I learned in all of this that you have to take time for your self, your family... more importantly you and Abba YAH!! Pay your bills! Save money! Take a vacation!! Spend time with your children...your wife...
My wife and I had to do a real 'gut' check and do a spiritual inventory and put things in proper priority. For us we made alot of huge changes and eventually left that church after much scriptural research and soul searching. Where we attend now is sooooooo refreshing, less time consuming and not a financial strain what so ever, HalleluYAH!!!
I feel you pain, brother and will keep you in my prayers!
< Message edited by LBolt -- 8/18/2008 7:32:59 PM >
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www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/18/2008 7:57:39 PM
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sunofone
Posts: 552
Joined: 10/11/2007
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LBolt
Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt!! I was in a church, my previous church of about 3,000-5,000 where the revivals were every day for two weeks, you were expected to dress in identical colors, on top of give an offering nightly, serve in the service... All the "who's who" in Christian preachers, with promises of "financial harvest" if I sacrificed...I would leave tired and broke...This was revival mind you. LOL!!
The regular week service was Sunday, Tues, Thursday and back again on Sunday. My wife would have to to practice on Wed for praise team. You talking about whipped!! All this while have two young kids. And being "in ministry" and leadership, you were expected to be at service. Oh, I forgot...service on Sunday was at 8:30 am and 11:00 am. We were intercessors and were there early at 7:30 am on Sunday. This was my life for about 12 years. Basically the same messages preached...How many ways can you make chicken!!! LOL!!
I learned in all of this that you have to take time for your self, your family... more importantly you and Abba YAH!! Pay your bills! Save money! Take a vacation!! Spend time with your children...your wife...
My wife and I had to do a real 'gut' check and do a spiritual inventory and put things in proper priority. For us we made alot of huge changes and eventually left that church after much scriptural research and soul searching. Where we attend now is sooooooo refreshing, less time consuming and not a financial strain what so ever, HalleluYAH!!!
I feel you pain, brother and will keep you in my prayers!
You sound like where I'm at now.My wife has a gift for singing and really wants to join the choir but she can't or won't because we can't afford to commit to their rigorous demands in terms of time,not to mention money, required for dressing in identical colors.That means new outfits of course.
Did I mention we love our church and thank God for having found it 
We really do love our church and family.I just wanted to get some perspective on how much is enough.
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/18/2008 8:49:17 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5657
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sunofone
I know you're a Pastor so what do you think is fair in taxing the members for extra scheduled fellowships?Not looking for a specific # as much as a direct response to my OP is all.Thanks
What do you mean by taxing?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/18/2008 9:27:30 PM
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sunofone
Posts: 552
Joined: 10/11/2007
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: sunofone
I know you're a Pastor so what do you think is fair in taxing the members for extra scheduled fellowships?Not looking for a specific # as much as a direct response to my OP is all.Thanks
What do you mean by taxing?
Thanks
RC
Don't worry about it RC.I forgot for a second what I was dealing with.Carry on Solider.
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/18/2008 11:11:18 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1876
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Church is meant to be about relationship---our relationship with the Lord and with others around the Lord. Much of what happens today in the name of 'church' isn't. Perhaps with good intention but not really what the Lord intended for us.
So I agree with earthless (and others). If you love the Lord and love being with His people, don't let others dictate how you live that out. Your young family needs home and family time. Busyness is satan's domain. The Lord would have us all slow down and spend more time in quiet meditation or around a table with a few other believers rather than running from one meeting to another. To know Him in any depth, we all need to slow down.
So I congratulate you for asking the question and I encourage you to find the place the Lord would have you. Bless you. 
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/19/2008 9:19:01 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5657
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
I've been a member of churches with attendances ranging from ~20 to those over 2,000. One difference in larger churches is that they provide much more ministry than is even possible in a small church. That means a lot of meetings aren't intended for most everyone. And large churches, generally, don't expect you to be there nearly as much as a small one. The largers ones I have belonged are not nearly as bothered if you aren't there every time the door opens as smaller ones seem to be.
You make a good point Jimbofletch.
From a leadership standpoint, I feel it is important to offer as many opportunities as possible for the folks that want to gather to be able to gather. And I personally never (and I do mean never) chide anyone directly for not coming to any meeting that we may have. I also make it a point to never mention folks not being there to the part of the congregation that is there. I feel it is my responsibility to offer the opportunity and to teach to best of my ability to those that do come; not to worry about numbers or those that don't come.
I know that some Pastors do make referrences to folks not being there or the numbers not being where the Pastor might want them, but I think this is great error.
Sunofone, I do not think you should put yourself or let anyone put you on a guilt trip for not showing up everytime the doors open. If your Pastor is pushinig the issue; then speak to him or go somewhere else. 40 miles is a long drive to go to Church; surely to goodness there is a decent group of Believers closer to your home than that.
Thsnks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/19/2008 9:34:56 AM
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GroupW
Posts: 2911
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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Nicely said.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/22/2008 2:57:55 PM
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sunofone
Posts: 552
Joined: 10/11/2007
Status: online
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Once again I want to thank everyone for some really great responses,all of which I've found to be extremely helpful.
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/26/2008 12:22:13 AM
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fallenstar
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I enjoy church, but somtimes I feel like being outdoors brings me closer to God. The outdoors has fresh air, plants and animals, beautiful things to see. It's wonderful.
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RE: Too much Church? - 8/26/2008 5:27:56 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
Posts: 956
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Kansas City, MO
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I tend to see that many Christians unfortunately believe that the terms "Church" and "commitment to God" are interchangeable. It is not so... in any sense of either word. I know several introverts that cannot stand being in large groups of people. Is it a sin for them to attend "only" one church service a week... even if they spend a lot of time in prayer and meditation? The answer is a resounding no.
There is a resounding difference between fellowship, going to a potluck, and going to church. In fact, I would charge that true fellowship only really happens between smaller groups of people who have holy conversations (as in, talking about Jesus or the Bible) on a regular basis, are completely open and honest with each other, and pray and prophesy over each other. Myself, I'm an extrovert... I'm most comfortable getting lost in a crowd. I have a high tolerance for being busy, and being around people. My personality is geared more towards what earthless rightly referred to as the "Churchianity rat race"... and even I miss five of our six services every week by necessity of my life circumstances. However, God is not driven by our personalities. If you are staying connected to a group of believers in true fellowship and community, then you have fulfilled the law of not neglecting to come together... even if you only attend church once or twice on Sunday.
So, to the OP... what do I think is going on? I think between having a busy schedule, a four year old child, and a busy church calendar, you are plain worn out. I know several families here that have just had small children... so they are raising their kids in the context of Night and Day prayer... and they still get hecka tired. An "olde-time" Baptist preacher once gave me a list... he said that if you had this list, your priorities were always in the right place.
(1) God
(2) Your family
(3) Yourself
(4) Your job
(5) Church
Just a rough draft, but if it helps you... you're welcome.
Adam
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I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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